Blizz Confusing What 'Hard' Means (solo dungeon)

[Deleted]

Dunno, it was pretty simple to do for me. I've only done the Ret one and don't really care about the others. That said, I wouldn't want to do this shit in Joe LFR's gear or even just being bad. Maybe it is hard if you're in shit gear or are a mediocre player. If anything, that's good right? Like they are getting an actual challenge?

As someone who is a mediocre player (I hope I'm at least up to there! Know I dno't have the situational awareness I used to) in mediocre gear (890), the challenge is good for WWs. Higher DPS, less chances to get oneshot... Although Prydaz allowing you to eat the occasional blast would be nice to give some leeway :P

[Holofernes]

i bet there will be a LOT of the winers in here who wont be able to do the quest in 950 gear.

[Deleted]

So the kids over at acti-blizz said the artifact/solo dungeon is going to be VERY HARD .. Thing is its not very hard mechanic wise, it actually feels super scripted (but hay it is PvE) and all that is hard about it would be RNG to get that one specific legendary that completely trivializes the encounter ..

Hard = RNG loot .. cool story

Edit: Quick examples not intended as a comprehensive list: BM= Legs / Affi = Ring / and so on

Like some have said: They could have just as easily tuned it to YOUR current ilvl as to put the focus on mechanics (skill) but NOOOO they went the other way and made the mechanics easy to learn (say 3 to 5 attempts) and put all the weight on gear .. Thing is before the next tier opens up (t20) RNG determines who has the gear TODAY!

So because you're bad at the game and simply cannot complete this "easy omfg scripted PvE solo scenario 3000" you instead come here on mmo champion to whine about it. Nice, such classic salt.

[Cempa]

So because you're bad at the game and simply cannot complete this "easy omfg scripted PvE solo scenario 3000" you instead come here on mmo champion to whine about it. Nice, such classic salt.

Forums are a great place to share ideas, views and opinions .. Feel free to contribute other wise ask your self why are you even posting?

You think my views are faulty, my argument amounts to nothing more than a straw-man? Great, share your views and lets take it from there.

[weedburst]

salty post for sure, but he's not wrong, it's just a simple gear check scenario. some specs are easier than others and some legendaries make it possible with lower ilvl, but it's still just a gear check.

no reason to be pissed about it though, just get above 915 or so and it will be free for everyone regardless of skill.

[Mic_128]

I think people comparing it closely with the Green Fire quest are making an error. The Warlock one was designed for one class with 3 DPS specs. There's no way they can go and make something that complex and unique for every single class and their different roles. Not to be all "Sacrifice a raid tier" but there would certainly be time taken from other content for it.

And sorry, but I'm quite content to wait and outgear it. Those who can get it early, well done! You're certainly better than I am at the game, both mechanically and time dedicated. But like the green fire, give it time and better gear and those like me who enjoy Brawlers Guild casually can eventually earn them.

I don't see the problem with patience.

[Twdft]

It should be a skill challenge, with scaled gear. Instead its a gear check and legendary check. Blizzard doesn't know how to make a proper skill challenge without always ruining it with a gear check.

If it were scaled with gear a lot of people who complain now but have the chance to complete it in a couple months with more gear wouldn't be able to complete it at all.

[Icoblablubb]

mimimi i'm bad i can't interrupt moving out of shit wtf is that in lfr i don't have to do that shit either QQ thas how most of these guys in here sound who cry about *muh impossible to do* while there are 887 guys out there doing it

[Khrux]

@Cempa

On 26th March you posted:

"What made me cry was on my new BM Hunter trying to kite a DH .. I may be bad at BM but how on earth do I kite a B52 bomber?!"

Now this was in an unrelated post, but tbh if your new to a class/spec and having problems with the challenge you just need to get more comfortable with the class/spec before complaining about the challenge. I don't mean that as an insult, but your posts suggest your becoming more and more frustrated and blaming gear for your failures when numerous people have done it without them.

Sure certain gear helps overcome fuck ups, but its not a requirement and giving optimal gear to a mong still results in failure. I personally used the legs, but I had around 8-10 attempts using Mantle/Boots before I swapped boots for legs and got it on 12th attempt. Considering your moving for the majority of the scenario if your doing it right and not getting hit the legs do fuck all. The only advantage to the legs is you can just stand still and zerg the worm at the end, but if you reach that point the challenge is over anyway. You could just use turtle, invigorate, intimidation and frost trap to control screams and not need legs anyway.

TLDR; stop looking for excuses, your new to the class and are struggling with the challenge. You'll get it eventually and likely without the legs, don't let it be a crutch. If I could redo/repeat it for the challenge, I'd do it without the legs just to confirm to myself that I never needed them and just got the mechanics right regardless of what I was wearing on that attempt.

[Cempa]

I think people comparing it closely with the Green Fire quest are making an error. The Warlock one was designed for one class with 3 DPS specs. There's no way they can go and make something that complex and unique for every single class and their different roles. Not to be all "Sacrifice a raid tier" but there would certainly be time taken from other content for it.

And sorry, but I'm quite content to wait and outgear it. Those who can get it early, well done! You're certainly better than I am at the game, both mechanically and time dedicated. But like the green fire, give it time and better gear and those like me who enjoy Brawlers Guild casually can eventually earn them.

I don't see the problem with patience.

You've explained the 'issue' many of are having which is what 'hard' means and your opinion (which many agree with including yours truly) would be Hard=Gear .. Thing is at this point of the game .. Gear = RNG Legendary

[TS26]

it needed to scale with ilvl or ilvl needed to be normalized. That's the only way everyone stays on the same level, and that's how it should've been because they said it's a test in players' skill and not their gear.

[Deleted]

I've done it with 896 equipped, without healing bracers (fury warrior -> Agatha).
You have to set up a Playbook and stick to it. The fight isn't a joke and will not be with ilvl 910.
If you fuck up in Phase 2, you are screwed unless you are super lucky (happened to me once, but not when i downed her).

I can see that this will get easier with ToS-Gear, but I guess the majority of players won't get higher than normal gear, which ranges from 900-910.
It's still a challenge for many players.

Also, its amusing that so many people (obviously the most of them fail at these challenges) refer to green fire. I recall seeing something similiar in Warlock forums about itemlevel/gearscore. I think its time some people accept that they are not as pro as they believe to be.

[Icoblablubb]

it needed to scale with ilvl or ilvl needed to be normalized. That's the only way everyone stays on the same level, and that's how it should've been because they said it's a test in players' skill and not their gear.

aha no bullshit .. either learn the fight/class or just leave it it has not much to do with gear .. even i did it with 2 BAD legendarys which help nothing at all on this fight ( 30% belt , nerfed Windwalker Boots for FoF) aslong as u know the fight and don't fuck up its not sooo impossible as many here are claiming . Hell even guys below 890 are doing them without BIS legendarys and on this thread guys are crying how impossible the challanges are its just a mather of don't fuck up play the mechanics and u did 80% of the fight

[Irian]

Honestly it sounds like OP is just going to blame lack of gear for his inability to accomplish something ingame as I've seen many players do at this point. I did this on an 896 destruction warlock (with no exploit) and then an 889 demonology warlock. The affliction one requires a legendary or insane gear as it is currently bugged, but I expect that to be fixed next time mage tower is up.

As far as I'm aware, there isn't a single one of these encounters that requires any sort of insane gear as long as you perform the mechanics perfectly and know how to use your defensives on mechanics that need them. Sometimes they become substantially easier with gear/legendaries, and yes some of them are bugged/easier than others but as far as I'm aware all non-bugged challenges have been completed by someone in fairly modest gear.

I almost didn't do Sigryn with logic like OP's, "I don't have the legendary/it's overtuned for someone with more gear than me/it's stupid". But I told myself it was an excuse and perfected the mechanics and managed, pre-guides. Yes, they are in fact pretty damn hard if you're geared below 910 and don't have legendaries like Prydaz for some classes. Are they impossible? As far as I've seen, spare a few encounters with buggy mechanics no, and if you can't do it then you're lying to yourself by blaming the developers.

[Dark-Zarupia]

Completed it as a Destruction warlock with IL 886 only had the Prydaz legendary neck and a messy Destruction cloak that improves my Havoc, i don't think its much gear based, sure the neck helped me good but i also had to drain live as much as possible to keep myself alive as for damage i think my dps was okay i didn't faceroll it, it took me more then 50 attempts but after 2 days of trying and learning how and when to use my spells i've managed to complete it

The green fire quest back in MoP took me 2 weeks and that was both skill and gear based

[Khrux]

It doesn't need to scale with gear, they are suppose to be mechanical challenges that require you to dodge shit, interrupt shit, kite shit, target swap, CC, ST nuke, burst Aoe etc. etc. They are already adjusted by spec, so the amount of hp required is different for one class compared to another.

Some classes have it easier because of their class skills, others have it harder but still have the tools to complete it. Some gear makes it easier to overcome mistakes, higher ilvl reduces fight length so the time to perform optimal is reduced etc.

I still don't see anyone who has completed it complaining, very few people one shot their challenge and if they claim they did it was either bullshit or they saw/read guides before hand. Its suppose to take multiple attempts and your suppose to use everything at your disposal to complete it, the only people complaining and make excuses are those who can't do it.

Perfect example of the challenge differences:
Disc priest has the Tauren+Worm challenge(shared with BM/Destro/WW), they only have a fear to interrupt so they used their ingenuity to take the mindbender talent and use fade to get the boss to target their mindbender with fel surges. They can't use it everytime, but they can rotate fear/mindbender/soak to manage it and get through. They're a healer but they don't just get their challenge for free which is what this OP(BM hunter) is claiming if you have the legendary legs.... complete horseshit excuse.

The boss hp is reduced for a disc priest, because they are a healer but its still proportionate to the BM one in terms of potential dps output. The mechanics stay the same despite hunter having multiple sources of CC/Interrupts, BM hunter can also cast fully on the move which the disc cannot(for heal or dps) but hey....

*can't do this without BM healer legendary right?*

[Deleted]

Skillwise its not hard.

Its just overtuned.

As to be expected with Legion.

Compare it to Green Fire where it was mechanically difficult and you needed to actually be skilled to beat it.

Gear made all the difference in the Green Fire quest though. I know, because after trying many times I finally completed it with better gear.

I suspect it's the same deal now. Casual players will probably have to wait for next patch to have a good shot, while fully Mythic geared people right now will say it's quite easy.

[Mic_128]

You've explained the 'issue' many of are having which is what 'hard' means and your opinion (which many agree with including yours truly) would be Hard=Gear .. Thing is at this point of the game .. Gear = RNG Legendary

So, much the same as raiding then? Get a Legendary and suddenly your DPS/Heals spike? Sounds to me the problem is with Legendaries then, not the solo dungeon.

[Rakoth]

It doesn't need to scale with gear, they are suppose to be mechanical challenges that require you to dodge shit, interrupt shit, kite shit, target swap, CC, ST nuke, burst Aoe etc. etc. They are already adjusted by spec, so the amount of hp required is different for one class compared to another.

Some classes have it easier because of their class skills, others have it harder but still have the tools to complete it. Some gear makes it easier to overcome mistakes, higher ilvl reduces fight length so the time to perform optimal is reduced etc.

I still don't see anyone who has completed it complaining, very few people one shot their challenge and if they claim they did it was either bullshit or they saw/read guides before hand. Its suppose to take multiple attempts and your suppose to use everything at your disposal to complete it, the only people complaining and make excuses are those who can't do it.

Perfect example of the challenge differences:
Disc priest has the Tauren+Worm challenge(shared with BM/Destro/WW), they only have a fear to interrupt so they used their ingenuity to take the mindbender talent and use fade to get the boss to target their mindbender with fel surges. They can't use it everytime, but they can rotate fear/mindbender/soak to manage it and get through. They're a healer but they don't just get their challenge for free which is what this OP(BM hunter) is claiming if you have the legendary legs.... complete horseshit excuse.

The boss hp is reduced for a disc priest, because they are a healer but its still proportionate to the BM one in terms of potential dps output. The mechanics stay the same despite hunter having multiple sources of CC/Interrupts, BM hunter can also cast fully on the move which the disc cannot(for heal or dps) but hey....

*can't do this without BM healer legendary right?*

This. I completed mine at 890, some completed it at 884. Prydaz gives you a "gear" buffer. I expect that without prydaz, you would maybe need 895 or 900 for the WWer one. Even with prydaz, I needed perfect execution of the one shots (Fel Burst and Fel Totem). I also needed to use my entire toolkit to finish it, including a heal I didn't even know I had.

I also don't think that more gear will make this a cake walk. I think that more gear will make it easier (as stated in the quoted post) but you will still need to execute it near-pefectly. I have not tried the healer challenge, or the tanking one, but I feel that more gear there will be able to help me compensate for my less then perfect execution. I will still need to execute close to perfectly.

[TS26]

aha no bullshit .. either learn the fight/class or just leave it it has not much to do with gear .. even i did it with 2 BAD legendarys which help nothing at all on this fight ( 30% belt , nerfed Windwalker Boots for FoF) aslong as u know the fight and don't fuck up its not sooo impossible as many here are claiming . Hell even guys below 890 are doing them without BIS legendarys and on this thread guys are crying how impossible the challanges are its just a mather of don't fuck up play the mechanics and u did 80% of the fight

you still dont get it do you. You can learn the fight 100% and still be unable to do it because your gear simply sucks. They should've made it so ilvl get normalized, just like challenge modes, instead it doesnt. Get a better gear and then brute force it.


It's bad design, and goes against the philosophy of testing player's skill.