Origins of the Universe

[GennGreymane]

Na. You are overreacting. Believing in a Creator does not mean you dump all science advancement. Isaac Newton, a brilliant scientist was also a Christian and a deeply spiritual one.

Except he didn't end his analysis at god did it. The point is not belief but willingness to go beyond. Too many people would say god did it and call it a day. Would make science an easier subject lol.

[Ghostpanther]

Except he didn't end his analysis at god did it. The point is not belief but willingness to go beyond. Too many people would say god did it and call it a day. Would make science an easier subject lol.

As far as I know from reading about him, he died still confessing a belief in a Creator.

[Whitehatter]

Ask the Computer that is simulating us all :P lol

Anyone fancy a game of the sims :P xxxxx

[Deleted]

I don't know, and I'd like to find out.

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"The universe has always existed".

Neither do I. I do however believe the theory of an eternal creator is one of the more probable ones. I see you also responded to a poster that said the universe itself could be eternal. This is also a theory some people believe in however many scientists dispute it based on the fact that we think we can see the universe expand from a center, which hints at a beginning at that center. Multiverse theory is another popular theory. It's fun to read up on these theories if you want to learn more, but we'll of course never know for certain. At least not at the moment.

[GennGreymane]

As far as I know from reading about him, he died still confessing a belief in a Creator.

You miss the point to keep a bad argument afloat. He didn't just throw his hands up in the air and gave up to exclaim god did it. He wanted a deeper understanding. My point you keep avoiding is just saying god did it is a cop out

[Soeroah]

As far as I know from reading about him, he died still confessing a belief in a Creator.

So?

"God created the universe, we must strive to learn how it works" is completely different from "God created the universe, stop wasting time trying to find out how".

Some people believe evolution is a process god started then sat back and let happen. Other people froth at the mouth over the idea god didn't create all species exactly as they are now. Which kind of person do you think Newton would prefer to talk to?

[minteK917]

Misunderstanding of the big bang by idiots is that big bang theory is of the aftermath of the big bang, not how the big bang came to be. We know exactly how the universe came to evolve into what it is now, which nasa did using observable science. How it started beyond that is an unknown as we cannot observe how the universe was before its creation.

[Deleted]

There is really no answer for this.
If the universe is created by God, where does God come from?

Only one thing is certain - We do exist.
That is all it matters.

I'd argue, as a Christian, that if there is no higher authority / power then nothing matters. Sure we exist, why does that matter tho?
Find it interesting all the 'scientific' instant dismissals of a God in favour of...well in favour of nothing I suppose.

As for the other point people are making about mentioning God being a copout, what's wrong with God being the underlying cause something using a mechanism? Does anyone still say "erm...God did it" anymore?

[minteK917]

There as many scientific theories as there are religious beliefs on the matter, and there is no true consensus.

I think the biggest non-religious belief is the big bang, but we don't know what came before that, if anything, and whether it's even possible to say there was a "before" the big bang if time as we know it came into being post-big bang.

Big bang is how to came to evolve. Its mostly religion trying to discredit demonstrable science.

[OrcsRLame]

Just me butting into this conversation.

The problem I find with an "eternal creator" is that it simply is a cop-out and merely pushes the question back one step, and the questions then becomes "Who/What created the creator?" etc.

It is a slightly illogical argument. A mixture of argument from ignorance and divine fallacy I'd say. But it's not something you should feel bad about, because I can almost guarantee you that every single human being has at least one illogical belief in something.

Well, if a being is omnipotent, they don't need to care about time. They just are. That actually does solve the problem instead of pushing it back, because the question "who created the creator" would simply not be applicable.

Whether you think that answer is factual is another story of course.

Personally, I don't necessarily buy the idea of a creator god, but I'm not willing to rule anything out till either it's been disproven or we have proof for something else. In my layman's opinion, I think the pre Big Bang state of the universe has to do with higher spatial dimensions, things that we quite literally cannot comprehend.

Carl Sagan did a great piece on different spacial dimensions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WjV6MmCyM

[minteK917]

I'd argue, as a Christian, that if there is no higher authority / power then nothing matters. Sure we exist, why does that matter tho?
Find it interesting all the 'scientific' instant dismissals of a God in favour of...well in favour of nothing I suppose.

Science never dismiss anything. It only explain how things works via repeatable demonstration. It is pointless for science to even talk about divinity. The only combat between science and religion is people trying to make one on the religious side. In fact some of the greatest people mind that made it possible to understand and ultimately reveal the big bang where religious people. Einstein himself hated that his theory of relativity made it impossible for the universe to be unending and static. He kept looking for a way to recouncil the fact that if he was correct, the universe as we know had a beginning and also an end.

[Ghostpanther]

So?

"God created the universe, we must strive to learn how it works" is completely different from "God created the universe, stop wasting time trying to find out how".

Some people believe evolution is a process god started then sat back and let happen. Other people froth at the mouth over the idea god didn't create all species exactly as they are now. Which kind of person do you think Newton would prefer to talk to?

I did not say stop trying to understand how the universe works, now did I? But for myself, I do not need to know the answer. But I am not a scientist.

I think Newton was open to scientific discoveries, but as myself, he already knew how the Universe and life itself ultimately came into existence. But him being a scientist, would have wanted more details.

[Deleted]

Sure we exist, why does that matter tho?

It matters for everything that follows us. It matters as the existence is the only one we have. Once we die, everything is over.

If you believe in a real existing heaven, you wont value life as much as you value it if you know that it will be your only chance to exist.

[Ghostpanther]

You miss the point to keep a bad argument afloat. He didn't just throw his hands up in the air and gave up to exclaim god did it. He wanted a deeper understanding. My point you keep avoiding is just saying god did it is a cop out

For a non scientist like myself, it is not a cop out, but a simple and easy answer.

[slime]

I don't think the human mind is meant to understand this.... yet.

[GennGreymane]

For a non scientist like myself, it is not a cop out, but a simple and easy answer.

And that's what's wrong with it.

[Ghostpanther]

And that's what's wrong with it.

It is only wrong with you. Because you want to know more. Which is fine. Go for it.

[Soeroah]

I did not say stop trying to understand how the universe works, now did I? But for myself, I do not need to know the answer. But I am not a scientist.

I think Newton was open to scientific discoveries, but as myself, he already knew how the Universe and life itself ultimately came into existence. But him being a scientist, would have wanted more details.

I don't want to infringe on your beliefs, but couldn't you do me a favour and not indicate you "know" the answer as if you're definitely right?

I have no issue with people believing what they will, but I find reading them implying a conversation is pointless because they "already know" to be very frustrating, and it pushes me away from considering their viewpoint at all. I prefer debating and discussion to talking in the direction of someone interested in neither.

[minteK917]

I don't think the human mind is meant to understand this.... yet.

It took thousands of years of knowledge accumulation to understand astronomy and eventually physics that came out of it. Human are well equipped to understand things by the ability we have to transmit knowledge. No one man could have found all the clues to the big bang theory.

[Symphonic]

Simply put...where did anything come from? I can wrap my head around existing things changing into something new, but I can't understand where things originated from. I'm talking about the most basic, trace elements (or whatever they are) that initially formed into the universe. Where did those things come from?

I think there was a "trigger". You can't just have an explosion from nothing to create something. So, before the "Big bang" that created our universe, there was likely "empty" space. I say "empty" because there were probably particles and antiparticles that are super dense, but unobservable. Anyway, check this article out. http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...onjured-vacuum