[Destruction] It's happening

[Scathbais]

What's "sad" is the constant fanboying of a shitty, ill-conceived design, then making excuses for it and waiting for a fix for months on end that never really comes - believing whatever comes out of the collective Mouth of Sauron at Blizz HQ. That's the truly pathetic part.

Charles Shultz gave us a hint when he told us about Lucy, who every football season promises Charlie Brown that this time, she wouldn't yank the ball away when he tried to kick it. But he winds up on his ass every year.

Some of the PvE content (raids/dungeons) of Legion is good but that's separate from the character issues: fixed templates in a RPG, the infinite AP grind and RNG layered on RNG, legendaries, various balance issues; not to mention flying, things like weapon illusions that you've already earned but have to re-grind, useless profs, very frustrating zones to get around in, on and on. That may be good for certain Korean hamsters but not for me.

And then you have the abortion that is Legion PvP, which I and a few others on MMO-C had predicted far ahead of launch would be an utter disaster. We were right.

It adds up in my estimation to a big steaming pile. There is nothing in Legion endgame Destro that I have any desire to play.

I disagree with almost everything you wrote. Since you haven't actually played the content, how can you be sure anything you wrote is actually true and not based on the hyperbolic blathering of some anti-blizzard complainers? You don't because you haven't played it yourself.

The AP grind is not infinite. In fact it is over. I have 2 specs to 52 and my third spec at 50. I'll have it at 52 after another week of raiding/WQs and mythic + dungeons.

Zones are easy to get around in. Flight whistles (do you even know about them?) and fast flight paths make getting around easy. Of course now there is flying.

The raids are great, mythic + are a constant challenge and can reward great gear. My professions are quite useful. I make tons of money off of enchanting and Tailoring.

Yes the legendary system sucked ass. Yup, Warlocks lost a lot of class identity and each had some major design issues. Still enjoyed the game and it didn't prevent me or my guild from raid progression.

Your missing out, but that's your call. The joke is that you are here complaining while completely ignorant of the very thing you are ranting about.

[Caolela]

Your missing out, but that's your call. The joke is that you are here complaining while completely ignorant of the very thing you are ranting about.

I'm not missing out on a thing but a useless, boring RNG grind on a spec that's the joke here because of Blizz's idea of "class fantasy", which was the cute buzzword to introduce all-RNG, templates, and AP grind while wiping out the old system. Have fun waiting for your Mastery to proc high then looking at your umpteenth 840-something ilvl drop.

Blizz could wrap a turd in a gold paper and some of you would swallow it whole. Wait...that's what they did with Legion...

[Klingers]

Blizzard's artists, writers, quest designers and raid design team do a phenomenal job.

It's sad that the Systems team and the Class Design team have to come in and shit all over their hard work by sucking all the fun out of the game with grind, randomness and inferior class mechanics.

[Deleted]

tested out destruction on ptr kiljaeden hc last night, and it was a fucking blast. I used reverse entropy and the new leg ring because fuck mana tap, and it felt actually pretty good. Shard gen is maybe a tiny bit too high but its ok in my eyes. Chaosbolt actually does damage and even rain of fire felt useful. So for 7.2.5 I will definitely abandon the sinking affliction ship and go back to destruction, which gameplay wise feels actually really good. Kinda WOD like with a lower havoc cd if talented. Pretty damn good.

[Deleted]

What's "sad" is the constant fanboying of a shitty, ill-conceived design, then making excuses for it and waiting for a fix for months on end that never really comes - believing whatever comes out of the collective Mouth of Sauron at Blizz HQ. That's the truly pathetic part.

Charles Shultz gave us a hint when he told us about Lucy, who every football season promises Charlie Brown that this time, she wouldn't yank the ball away when he tried to kick it. But he winds up on his ass every year.

Some of the PvE content (raids/dungeons) of Legion is good but that's separate from the character issues: fixed templates in a RPG, the infinite AP grind and RNG layered on RNG, legendaries, various balance issues; not to mention flying, things like weapon illusions that you've already earned but have to re-grind, useless profs, very frustrating zones to get around in, on and on. That may be good for certain Korean hamsters but not for me.

And then you have the abortion that is Legion PvP, which I and a few others on MMO-C had predicted far ahead of launch would be an utter disaster. We were right.

It adds up in my estimation to a big steaming pile. There is nothing in Legion endgame Destro that I have any desire to play.

Gotta love these self-fulfilling prophecies, right? You predict something to be horrible and then months later state your opinion that you think it's horrible. You truly were right

Just a couple of observations:
- Can't talk much about PvP because I suck at it and don't like it. But being against templates sounds like you want to overgear others instead of outskilling them. Being the victim of 3-second deaths against warriors or DHs in open PVP WQs (I know they don't balance open PVP, and have already stated that suck at PVP myself anyway, but this is just an argument to prove a point), I think that "not having templates" would be only "fun" for those that want to easy-mode destroy others with less gear.

- Infinite AP grind: Isn't a grind. If you do what you like, you get AP. There is more than enough time to get the AP to the point where diminishing returns outweigh putting any additional effort into it. Most only don't like it because they were used to logging in for raids without anything to do, but then complained about lack of content.

- RNG: Certain areas have too much of it, but it's just a meme. It doesn't affect my day-to-day gameplay. It only means that I sometimes do insanely high damage, and sometimes rather low, with the average being close together anyway.

- Legendaries: Same meme. If by now you don't have all of them for your main spec, you just don't play enough of the content.

- Class balance: Was never perfect. Is admittedly aggravated by now not only having classes but specs, but except for very few cases, there is no spec in game that is non-viable for mythic raiding. Some may be better than others, but that's just the way it always has been.

[Caolela]

Gotta love these self-fulfilling prophecies, right? You predict something to be horrible and then months later state your opinion that you think it's horrible. You truly were right

It's not just my opinion. The reality is the Rated ladders have been in collapse or virtually so since last season, and Legion PvP participation is at an all-time low. The base of the PvP pyramid has been decimated where 80% of players would usually be. Blizz even fucked up the R1 season titles last time for weeks because the bottom fell out on them.

Try to keep up with the facts here, not inventing things out of the wrong hole.

Just a couple of observations:
- Can't talk much about PvP because I suck at it and don't like it. But being against templates sounds like you want to overgear others instead of outskilling them. Being the victim of 3-second deaths against warriors or DHs in open PVP WQs (I know they don't balance open PVP, and have already stated that suck at PVP myself anyway, but this is just an argument to prove a point), I think that "not having templates" would be only "fun" for those that want to easy-mode destroy others with less gear.

Here's a couple of things you should have observed before wasting bandwidth: another fact is that before Legion, you could easily gear up full Honor/710 in several hours or a couple evenings in Ashran; in a week to full or nearly full Conquest/740 with the catch-up cap and be equal to everyone else, but you still had choices about your stats and setting up your toon. GL with that now. Anything over max ilvl scaled to 740 max in PvP instances, so everyone was equal. Thus you didn't "easy-mode destroy others with less gear" for long.

Remember too that in Legion, a newly dinged 110 is put into a separate queue in instanced PvP with others who have no honor or artifact traits yet and they're very opaque about it - furthering Blizz's lie that "gear doesn't matter". How convenient.

- Infinite AP grind: Isn't a grind. If you do what you like, you get AP. There is more than enough time to get the AP to the point where diminishing returns outweigh putting any additional effort into it. Most only don't like it because they were used to logging in for raids without anything to do, but then complained about lack of content.

More facts: you can level/gear up for PvP in Legion by not doing PvE, but PVE'ing is much faster than exclusively doing PvP. Most people will take the former even if they don't like PvE. Very few PvP'ers complained about 'nothing to do' and if they did it was from lack of new PvP content. That didn't mean they wanted to be herded into a massive PvE grind that they hated, or RNG layered on RNG.

- RNG: Certain areas have too much of it, but it's just a meme. It doesn't affect my day-to-day gameplay. It only means that I sometimes do insanely high damage, and sometimes rather low, with the average being close together anyway.

See above. And I think if you asked most people, especially those that have burned out and quit that the RNG is just a "meme", they'd say you're delusional.

- Legendaries: Same meme. If by now you don't have all of them for your main spec, you just don't play enough of the content.

Yeah but not a "meme" either since the reality shows otherwise. There have been countless threads on it and again, you're seeing kittens and unicorns.

- Class balance: Was never perfect. Is admittedly aggravated by now not only having classes but specs, but except for very few cases, there is no spec in game that is non-viable for mythic raiding. Some may be better than others, but that's just the way it always has been.

This was largely due to excessive pruning and the "class fantasy!1!" horseshit spewed by the Blizz PR machine that some of you swallowed whole. Are you saying that pre-Legion we didn't have specs but only classes? Jesus. Trying to get a spot on a raid or PvP team with certain specs now is like walking into a room with leprosy. Except atm some are willing to take anything because the available pool has shrunk so badly.

Keep drinking the Blizz kool-aid. They have oceans of it ready to go.

[bio347]

So I have to ask then... why are you here? You don't play Legion, you won't play Legion... why don't you leave those of us who ARE playing alone to discuss in peace (or whatever passes for it around here)?

'cause, tbh, stalking your ex videogame isn't a great look.

[Walrock]

So everyone can do and judge everything just by reading about it, no practice or objective direct observation required??
Damn, call the news, humanity is doing it wrong the whole god damn time!

Isn't there a phrase for delusional people who can not accept other peoples truth because that would indirectly admit that they are wrong about their personal stuff, which many people have problems with?

And your signature is just the icing on the cake, great stuff man.

[Caolela]

So everyone can do and judge everything just by reading about it, no practice or objective direct observation required??
Damn, call the news, humanity is doing it wrong the whole god damn time!

Apparently you're suffering from 'selective comprehension syndrome' today. I've said not only have I read but also have seen plenty about Legion to know it's hot garbage. I and others knew that well before it went live, and the longer it goes on the more it is confirmed as shit. It's WoD Redux but worse.

Well idk...a lemming jumps off a cliff. Another lemming comes along and says, "hey I have to do that to find out what it really is!"

/picardfacepalm

Edit - if you have doubts about what's in my sig, by all means continue to talk ignorance. A quick web search will show that yes, Casey did say that in his first meeting with Reagan in 1981 when asked by Reagan what his plans for the agency were, witnessed by several who were in the room at the time.

[Baconeggcheese]

Apparently you're suffering from 'selective comprehension syndrome' today. I've said not only have I read but also have seen plenty about Legion to know it's hot garbage. I and others knew that well before it went live, and the longer it goes on the more it is confirmed as shit. It's WoD Redux but worse

Its the literal opposite of wod, and generally well received. Not really sure what you're on about.

Got plenty I'm not enthralled with, but that's true of every xpac. Most of the major issues were resolved with 7.2, though you still hear people complain about them.

[Gaidax]

This guy again... sigh.

[Caolela]

Its the literal opposite of wod, and generally well received. Not really sure what you're on about.

Got plenty I'm not enthralled with, but that's true of every xpac. Most of the major issues were resolved with 7.2, though you still hear people complain about them.

If you're "not really sure" what I'm on about then perhaps you should read again. This time use some measure of honest critique. It's not the opposite of WoD in many respects. Has more PvE content? Perhaps to an extent (more raids) but then it's just repeating WQs/emissaries and the same instances ad nauseum - and then there's the RNG.

Yeah, it's been so "well received" that people once again have left in droves after just a few months, guilds have permanently broken up including several world firsts/top end, and PvP was a disaster from the git as was predicted. That's not what's usually considered a ringing endorsement.

[Coldfire989]

So I have to ask then... why are you here? You don't play Legion, you won't play Legion... why don't you leave those of us who ARE playing alone to discuss in peace (or whatever passes for it around here)?

'cause, tbh, stalking your ex videogame isn't a great look.

Been wondering the exact same thing.

[Caolela]

This guy again... sigh.

Did your rose-colored glasses get fogged again there Guidax?

[Baconeggcheese]

@Caolela The entirety of wods reward structure was tied to the garrison mission table, this meant you had no reason to stay logged in once you sent your missions out if you weren't raiding or pushing rating in pvp. The reward structure of legion is tied to basically everything except the mission table, which barely gives anything anymore.

The reward structure is the literal polar opposite of wod to a fault.

They've also already released more content for this xpac in the first raid tier than they did for the entirety of wod. The two are nothing alike.

[Walrock]

At this point I'm not sure if he is serious or just trolling.

But honestly you sound like a child which lost interest in a toy and then abandoned it.
Now you see all the other childs picking up the toy, after it had a slight makeover, and actually enjoying themself, even with some of the problems the toy has.
You don't like it, and because of that, to make yourself believe your decision was right, you make fun of them, calling them dumb, lemmings and whatnot.

“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”

And don't bother elaborating how dumb I/we am/are and how much more intelligent and better you are because you have seen and read everything there is to know about the game, because I'm not gonna read it.


I hate some games and I don't understand how people can enjoy them, but I accept it and go on with my life.
I don't need to call other people stupid or other names to make myself feel better, I never felt so low.. and oh boy I had my low times.

PS: You are comparing facts (falling of a cliff and dying) with personal taste (pineapple on a pizza), not really a good comparison

[Gaidax]

Don't feed the troll really, it's not like he even gives a damn about anything you say. He literally comes to these forums every now to shit on things out of spite.

[Caolela]

@Caolela The entirety of wods reward structure was tied to the garrison mission table, this meant you had no reason to stay logged in once you sent your missions out if you weren't raiding or pushing rating in pvp. The reward structure of legion is tied to basically everything except the mission table, which barely gives anything anymore.

The reward structure is the literal polar opposite of wod to a fault.

They've also already released more content for this xpac in the first raid tier than they did for the entirety of wod. The two are nothing alike.

I guess you missed where I stipulated that there is more PvE content. But it's a lot more grindy, and in WoD you knew what your garrisons were going to return for the effort.

The reward structure is different yes, in the sense that now it's all-RNG, especially for PvP'ers who before had a clear upgrade path where they chose their gear and bought it with earned currency, AND still had control over their stats. If I wanted more Haste for Aff or more Crit or Mastery for Destro, I could have several different items for those builds...and I knew exactly when and how I was going to get them. Except ofc for BiS Accolade trinkets which were RNG - Blizz's way of introducing the all-RNG they obviously had long planned for Legion.

When you do that you remove the RPG aspect and it turns into a quasi-MOBA or Diablo-style aRPG grind bastardization. WoW is no longer a MMORPG in the sense of char progression and building the way you want. It's some bean-counter deciding here's what you get because it increases sub time and thus our profit margins.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't feed the troll really, it's not like he even gives a damn about anything you say. He literally comes to these forums every now to shit on things out of spite.

Anyone who tells it like it is in this game, that so happens to destroy the rampant fanboyism and idiocy, is labeled a troll? That's convenient for you Guidax but I've yet to see anything from you here that refutes the facts I've posted.

Maybe in the next post I'm a suspected witch and you'll ask if I sink or float with a stone in my lap? GG champ.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Caolela The reward structure is different in the sense that it is structurally completely different. You can completely remove the RNG and it is still a completely different reward structure that is not even mildly close to what we had in wod. The two are apples and oranges.

[Caolela]

The problem is Bacon that you can't separate the RNG from the mess that Blizz intertwined it with. I'd be more than happy to go back to pre-Legion on that and about 20 other things.

Then you have the anti-alt AP system; the templates, the useless profs, Legendaries that were an abortion before they got out of some idiot's brain fart and put into a code, having to re-grind things like wep illusions that you already earned, flying that by the time you get it it's mostly irrelevant...and on and on it goes.

Sorry but I can't give this xpac even barely a passing grade on a generous day.