Marine Le Pen denies French role in wartime roundup of Paris Jews

[Kontinuum]

The French far-right presidential candidate Marine Le Pen has denied that the French state was responsible for the wartime roundup of Jews at a Paris cycling track who were then sent to Nazi death camps.

The former president Jacques Chirac and the current leader, François Hollande, have both apologised for the role French police played in the corralling of more than 13,000 Jews at the Vel d’Hiv cycling track, which was ordered by Nazi officers in 1942. But Le Pen told the LCI television channel on Sunday: “I don’t think France is responsible for the Vel d’Hiv.”

She added: “I think that, generally speaking, if there are people responsible, it’s those who were in power at the time. It’s not France.”

The leader of the National Front party said France had “taught our children that they have all the reasons to criticise [the country], and to only see, perhaps, the darkest aspects of our history. So I want them to be proud of being French again.”

In advance of the first round of France’s presidential election on 23 April, Le Pen’s centrist rival Emmanuel Macron said her comments were “a serious mistake”. “Some had forgotten that Marine Le Pen is the daughter of Jean-Marie Le Pen,” he told BFMTV.

Jean-Marie Le Pen, who founded the Front National in 1972 and is estranged from his daughter, has been convicted repeatedly for antisemitic and racist comments such as calling the Holocaust a “detail of history”.

“We must not be complacent or minimise what the National Front is today,” Macron said.

The CRIF, an umbrella group of French Jewish organisations, and the Jewish students’ union both denounced Le Pen for the comments, describing them as “revisionist”. “These remarks are an insult to France, which honoured itself in 1995 by recognising its responsibility in the deportation of France’s Jews and facing its history without a selective memory,” the CRIF said.

Chirac’s Socialist predecessor, François Mitterrand, had refused to acknowledge responsibility for the deportations, saying in 1994: “The republic had nothing to do with that. France is not responsible.”

Le Pen later issued a statement saying: “Like Charles de Gaulle and François Mitterrand … [I consider that] France and the Republic were in London during the occupation”. She added that the Nazi-collaborationist Vichy regime “was not France”.

“This does not at all exonerate the actual personal responsibility of those French who took part in the vile Vel d’Hiv round-up and all the atrocities committed in that period,” she said. She went on to accuse her political opponents of exploiting her comments in a “disgraceful” way.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...dup-paris-jews

[Deleted]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...dup-paris-jews

No chance she'll be rounding people up if she wins.

[Kaleredar]

A far-right nationalist group denying any reason to criticize the past history of their country?

Sounds about par the course.

An applicable sentiment:

"[Liberals] love America just as much as [conservatives] do. But in a different way. You see, [conservatives] love America like a 4-year-old loves his mommy. Liberals love America like grown-ups. To a 4-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful and anyone who criticizes Mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad and helping your loved one grow."

[Trollhammer]

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with this information.. Is this another "Trump is a Nazi" swing?

She is right, France was occupied and under Nazi control..

[Krekal]

Nice to see a right-wing politician not under the feet of zionism

[Kallisto]

Ugh French political leaders need to just own up and admit Vichy France was the legitimate French Government of the time and you can't deny the legitimacy just because they collaborated with the Germans. It wasn't some kind of military coup that put them in power but an actual legal transfer of power before the French government surrendered. Petain was granted powers well within the French constitution at the time.

That said like Germany modern France has nothing to apologize for or anything like the nature. People alive back then are 90% plus all died by now. Just accept that it happened. Teach future generations that France like every other country has some black stains in their past and try to lead a good example for future generations.

Though at least they admit that some French groups were responsible for these atrocities. Though with Le Pen I would consider it nothing more than lip service.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with this information.. Is this another "Trump is a Nazi" swing?

She is right, France was occupied and under Nazi control..

Northern France was occupied. Vichy Government was the legitimate government of France when Petain was appointed before the French surrender. That was the French state at the time. The Free French were the heroes of France but they were not the true government.

[Jastall]

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with this information.. Is this another "Trump is a Nazi" swing?

She is right, France was occupied and under Nazi control..

The French leadership at the time went above and beyond what the Nazis asked of them in regards to Jews and other topics (such as slave labor). Guys like Pierre Laval and Admiral Darlan actively collaborated with the Nazis, vastly preferring them to the British, and the former was basically a Nazi in all but name.

Vichy France was more than an oppressed government doing the bare minimum to appease the Nazis. It actively and willfully collaborated in many of its worst atrocities. It is a black mark on France's history, and to sweep this under the rug is an insult to this history.

[Deleted]

A lot of people from across thje political spectrum were involved in the round up of Jews for deportation. Collaboration wasn't just from people who would go on to form the FN.
For certains ex presidents to say that France had nothing to do with it is a bit silly. The country collaborated on a mssive scale and went above and beyond in some cases.
Having a fraction of the government in exile (that was on the winning side in the end) didn't change the fact that the high ups, administration and officers / fonctionnaires doing to dirty work were at that point part of the "legitimate" government that fell in once liberated.

That said the FN do have a base of holocaust deniers and xenohphobes.

We're gonna have such a bad time no matter who wins, it's depressing.

[Independent voter]

The Vichy government had to make decisions that no one should be asked to make.

[Super Kami Dende]

A far-right nationalist group denying any reason to criticize the past history of their country?

Sounds about par the course.

An applicable sentiment:

"[Liberals] love America just as much as [conservatives] do. But in a different way. You see, [conservatives] love America like a 4-year-old loves his mommy. Liberals love America like grown-ups. To a 4-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful and anyone who criticizes Mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad and helping your loved one grow."

I'd say that would apply to Liberals in a Classical sense, but many "liberals" these days in the Mainstream are "Progressives". Progressives aren't like Grown ups. They are like Teenagers. Mostly they complain and think everything is unfair and mostly don't understand how the real World Works. Most of the time they come up with "feel good" ideas that aren't actually viable and end up being a waste of time. They also hate people that Criticize THEIR side of Mommy and think their side can do no Wrong.

The unfortunate thing is they keep labeling themselves Liberals when in fact they are far more Authoritarian than many of the Conservatives they attack.

TL;DR - "liberals" in America are just as fucking stupid and naive as they accuse conservatives of being.

[Garnier Fructis]

TL;DR - "liberals" in America are just as fucking stupid and naive as they accuse conservatives of being.

Which is largely irrelevant to the observation that the ones who want to whitewash away the darker aspects of their national histories are the parties at the intersection of conservatism and nationalism.

[May90]

I agree that the modern generations don't hold responsibility for what their ancestors did 80 years ago. But the claim that Vichy's regime was not French is idiotic. Committing crimes under threats and orders is still committing crimes.

[Super Kami Dende]

Which is largely irrelevant to the observation that the ones who want to whitewash away the darker aspects of their national histories are the parties at the intersection of conservatism and nationalism.

lmao. Really.. Using the Term Whitewash for this?

[Garnier Fructis]

lmao. Really.. Using the Term Whitewash for this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewashing_(censorship)

This word is pretty much the standard way to describe this sort of behavior. If you read any sort of racial connotation, that's your own fault. Nice deflection?

[Deleted]

A 'puppet' state is hardly an independent state which can make it's own decisions.

Also people need to remember that the Nazi's sent more than just Jew's to the camps, i can't put myself in the shoe's of someone who might have been told that if they didn't comply they and their family would be sent there.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Generally speaking, Collaborators are not well-remembered in the long term.

[Jastall]

lmao. Really.. Using the Term Whitewash for this?

It absolutely is. Vichy was France's government at the time, an almost direct successor (or replacement to be more accurate, perhaps) of the 3rd Republic. To say that ''France didn't do this'' is exactly as misguided as saying ''Germany didn't do the Holocaust'' or ''The US didn't do Hiroshima and Nagasaki''. Sure, modern French/Germans/Americans have nothing to do with this, but it is very much a part of French history, and trying to downplay it fits my definition of whitewashing all the way.

Vichy went above and beyond the call of duty when it came to Collaboration, mostly in an effort to curry favor with Hitler (it didn't work because Hitler didn't give a shit about France so long as they behaved themselves). As someone born in France, I think this should absolutely be remembered.

[mage21]

"[Liberals] love America just as much as [conservatives] do. But in a different way. You see, [conservatives] love America like a 4-year-old loves his mommy. Liberals love America like grown-ups. To a 4-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful and anyone who criticizes Mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad and helping your loved one grow."

Among posts that were serious and not meant to be trolling, this is the most ridiculous remark I have ever seen on MMO-C. There's a lot of divisive, partisan posts here, but most of them have basis somewhere in the realm of reality. This right here, just hands down the most ridiculous statement I've ever seen on this forum.

Maybe it's conflating "'Merica, f*** yeah!" sentiments with conservatism? I'm not really sure. Just the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on MMO-C.

[Deleted]

And? I mean France was under Nazi occupation so she's technically right?
But then again the media is on full swing.
Behold people, the worst elections in europe! France!
Who would have thought. De Gaulle must be at 1800 rpm at the moment.

[Aggrophobic]

Yes, that would be something she's say. Are people actually surprised?