Standard English ‘Oppressive’ to Minorities; Teach Ebonics Instead

[Bodakane]

You're literally backing a policy that would make this kind of speak ok and standard in certain parts of the US. And you're ok with that. I honestly never thought I'd live to see somebody with an education saying this is a good idea.

Language is fluid. It, like everything, must adapt or it will die.

[Damajin]

It's amazing the utter irony of her study - trying to not oppress minorities by lowering the standards. Too hard to learn English? Here, we'll dumb it down.

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You know the funny thing? Most of the community in question doesn't want this - they tried this very thing in the '80's and '90's - and black leaders turned it down wholesale - for much of the same reason we're shitting on it in this thread.

That's good, they shouldn't want it. Not sure why anyone would be for this, slang shouldn't be a codified language given educational emphasis.

[Stormspark]

Because AAVE has fundamentally different syntax from other variations of English, being descended from a pidgin, and therefore conforming to prescriptive standards requires a more drastic alteration than it does for people who speak many other dialects. It is incorrect to frame prescriptively correct English as "proper English," however, as written language is secondary to spoken language and prescriptive English is a derivative of descriptive English, not the other way around. It's not about it being too hard exactly, but about it being harder than it is for people like me, who grew up in an area where pretty much everyone speaks in a manner that is very close to Standard American English, and therefore I have very little to learn when compared to others.

But by all means, keep citing sources that are little more than anti-left outrage factories. Don't actually bother learning anything.

It's not a dialect or separate language. It's what happens when EVERYTHING you say is slang. There's nothing wrong with slang terms here and there. But not when you make every single phrase you use slang.

[prwraith]

Again: most people don't move out of the area they're born in. Which means that preventing them from learning a regional dialect is actively hindering them.

Is it hindering them now? Because right now the English curriculum for the US public schools doesn't teach ebonics, and everyone seems fine code switching on their own.

[Kraenen]

I wasn't quoting you, brother. Paraphrasing the "argument" presented from OP.

You also just said the same thing I said - people pick up dialects based on where they're at. Yelling that AAVE isn't an acceptable dialect to teach doesn't suddenly help them in their region where everyone speaks AAVE - it actively hinders them by pushing it down as "hick language". If everyone speaks AAVE in an area, teach AAVE. Teach in AAVE. People are smart enough to learn multiple dialects when they need to code switch, but preventing someone from learning in the dialect they're comfortable in only serves to boost the ego of "real 'muricans spek luk thus!" type people. It doesn't actually help anyone.

No, teach American English. I'd rather not have the country splinter up through language on top of every other factor. You create these enclaves where, sure, it's fun for the academic sociologists to study, but they're kept out of greater society.

just fyi there's no reason you can't speak multiple dialects for different situations. just make sure the public education is devoted to some standard form.

[Vanyali]

No, teach American English. I'd rather not have the country splinter up through language on top of every other factor.

American English has many, many regional varieties, some of which mean vastly different things depending on region already. Claiming the country is going to split through language when an official language isn't even something we have is extremely hyperbolic.

[prwraith]

Frankly, you should be able to understand other English speakers of whatever dialect just fine. It's still English. And teaching about this variation from the get-go is important.

You want a core example of the harm not doing this causes? I see American shows all the time that have Scottish people on, and they subtitle them. When they're speaking English. If you can't understand someone speaking the same language as you, albeit in a different dialect, then the issue is your inability to understand, not theirs.

So everyone from the north has an issue, or everyone from the south has an issue? Or is it now both and we've got to teach both?

Or does everyone on the east vs west have an issue and the PROBLEM is with both of them or just one?

Where does it end.

[Vanyali]

Is it hindering them now? Because right now the English curriculum for the US public schools doesn't teach ebonics, and everyone seems fine code switching on their own.

Except the part where people tell them that speaking the dialect they grew up with makes them poor, uneducated fools that should learn to speak real language, right? not harmful.

[Kraenen]

American English has many, many regional varieties, some of which mean vastly different things depending on region already. Claiming the country is going to split through language when an official language isn't even something we have is extremely hyperbolic.

Things are one way already, keep them the same? I'm not sure what you're arguing.

[Nitro Fun]

I don't particularly care what people in this thread are saying, i'm replying to the original post.

The Left has been waging a war against language for over a decade now, this is just the next step, dumb it down even more for the proles.

That's funny, I don't recall waging a war against language.

[prwraith]

Except the part where people tell them that speaking the dialect they grew up with makes them poor, uneducated fools that should learn to speak real language, right? not harmful.

Is it more or less harmful than completely overhauling the English curriculum in the US so that nobody learns the non regional English.

[Vanyali]

Things are one way already, keep them the same? What? I'm not sure what you're arguing.

We already have a great deal of regional dialect. The country isn't splitting over it. Not just things pronounced differently - different words, different vowels, different grammatical oddities. Excluding AAVE, even.

The country isn't going to split because we have regional variances in how English is taught because we already do that.

[Nitro Fun]

You've got that backwards, m8. It's the more socially conservative posters who are flipping their lids over people not strictly adhering to the "proper" standard.

I'm not socially conservative and I think it's stupid.

[Vanyali]

Is it more or less harmful than completely overhauling the English curriculum in the US so that nobody learns the non regional English.

You are literally the only person that is yelling about this.

[prwraith]

You are literally the only person that is yelling about this.

Yelling is a bit of a reach. Let try a different approach. Are you currently aware of the massive Latin american prejudice against each other based on their Spanish?

[Deleted]

Next thing I know you'll tell me that up is actually down.

I'm sure that if someone said that the word down is offensive to people with Downs Syndrome there be a campaign to get it banned, and thus is the English language destroyed, piece by piece.

We'd have to start calling down UnUp.

[cubby]

Yelling is a bit of a reach. Let try a different approach. Are you currently aware of the massive Latin american prejudice against each other based on their Spanish?

If he is, I'm not. Could you elaborate?

[Vanyali]

Yelling is a bit of a reach. Let try a different approach. Are you currently aware of the massive Latin american prejudice against each other based on their Spanish?

No, let's remain on the topic at hand.

Most people: If there's a regional variant, teaching that in that region is fine.
You: But overhauling the entire US system is dumb!
Most people: We're talking region-specific...
You: We can't overhaul the country for this!

[prwraith]

I'm sure that if someone said that the word down is offensive to people with Downs Syndrome there be a campaign to get it banned, and thus is the English language destroyed, piece by piece.

We'd have to start calling down UnUp.

Funny conversation about the UP / Down thing in the west wing regarding the globe. Essentially saying people associate UP with superior, so they advocate flipping the map so the north american and asian continents are actually down. Doesn't change anything relativistically but it's pandering to the extreme.

[petej0]

Frankly, you should be able to understand other English speakers of whatever dialect just fine. It's still English. And teaching about this variation from the get-go is important.

You want a core example of the harm not doing this causes? I see American shows all the time that have Scottish people on, and they subtitle them. When they're speaking English. If you can't understand someone speaking the same language as you, albeit in a different dialect, then the issue is your inability to understand, not theirs.

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