Does Blizzard care about PvP?

[Nerovar]

"Not caring" is a hyperbolic way of looking at it. PvP has certainly always been a lower priority part of the game, though. WoW was built from the ground up as a PvE experience, with proper PvP only being supported post-launch as an optional extra mode. It's popular enough for them to dedicate a decent amount of resources to it, but similar to something like pet battles it's not really the main focus, so it's always going to lack the attention required to make it feel like a truly impressive, tightly designed piece of the core experience.

Obviously they care about PvP, it's just that they care about PvE way more, and as such PvP will always be a secondary concern when it comes to allocating design resources.

The point I'm trying to make is that Blizzard cares less about PvP than they did e.g. in WoD. We can argue about Ashran's flaws all day long but in the end it was some form of content and in the beginning (before you had horrendous queue times) I actually enjoyed it and it made gearing your alts incredibly easy. I don't really have numbers to back this claim but I also got the feeling that the PvP modifier changes happened more frequently than template changes in Legion but that might just be my bias because of my intense hatred towards templates.

Legion didn't really introduce anything for the PvP community except for new arenas and brawls (which is that retarded idea they seem to force on every Blizzard game now lul) when you think about it. Honor Talents were mostly existing mechanics that were ripped out of the original prepruning-classes and templates aren't really a feature to begin with since they only take away customization from PvP in order to provide a small group of players better accessibility under the pretense of better game balance.
All these changes weren't made for PvP players but for PvE players who dabble in PvP as rda already pointed out.

[Tyrannica]

i am playing online games in tournaments and ladders since 20 years now coming from games like age of....rts and civliziation and of course the good old sc1 and wc3.

Honestly the problem simply is, that pvp in wow is only done to 1/3 of its full potential.

The most popular pvp modes i played in various games(allthough strategy games for the most part) were FFA and Duels. And on this the games were fully balanced around.

Team games were way less popular, because you were not in full control over your mate and it could not be a test of your skill alone, to either beat anyone in duels or be the only survivor in FFA.

I strongly suggest this is the core problem wow pvp has, along with stupid random gear rewards/lack of real pvp gear, and a screwed pvp template, with the latter one is merely a problem of legion.

You can't expect people used to FFA and duels to play only in teams. Period.

[snackfeat]

Of course not.

[Saverem]

https://clips.twitch.tv/DrabWiseAntOSfrog
https://clips.twitch.tv/DistinctTang...utterJellyTime

The question is quite simple. A large majority of WoW players is mainly PvE oriented and doesn't seem to care alot about PvP. Additionally the arena participation is at an all time low. Wouldn't you expect some kind of reaction from Blizzard when it comes to these things? Do they still care? Did they ever care about PvP?

Considering they've been letting Hollinka lead the PvP for all these years is proof that they don't give a shit. It's like they gave the stapler guy lead position instead of escorting him out of the building.

[docterfreeze]

PvP has been solidified as a minigame this expansion. Slightly more important than pet battles.

1. PvE class changes are effecting PvP tremendously

2. One spec can be god tier for an entire season before being nerfed properly

3. You have to PvE to get consistent gear upgrades and AP. They don't understand all we want is to PvP and only PvP, and have fun doing it.

4. Pruning was down without a thought of the impact it would have on PvP

WoW could have the best skill-based PvP of any game (got close in previous expansions) but they neglect it and forget about it when making changes to the game and then try to shift it into a spectator sport, dulling it down immensely.

5.

They don't even document changes to pvp templates or whatever that shit is, nobody knows whats happening in pvp

PvE is outdated. Fighting AI over and over isn't fun. Most popular games are PvP only, WoW needs to follow suit.

[Kazdum]

2017 and you still discussing this?
lol

pvp is dead

[Lady Dragonheart]

PvP is, and has (mostly) always been, a small part of the game. Otherwise, this is a PvE game with occasional PvP elements to it. It was never a primary concern and it was never completely forgotten as part of the content. They just don't care about appeasing the loud parts of the PvP crowd, which is for the better. It is essentially a minigame and somewhat of a social element and little else, nor does it need to be anything more.

[Stormspellz]

blizzard? yes they do- they are after all pushing heavly into esports for ow & hots

wow dev team? not in the slightest, holinka is either incompetent or has no development say and simply a talking pr head (bad one at that)

[Nerovar]

PvP is, and has (mostly) always been, a small part of the game. Otherwise, this is a PvE game with occasional PvP elements to it. It was never a primary concern and it was never completely forgotten as part of the content. They just don't care about appeasing the loud parts of the PvP crowd, which is for the better. It is essentially a minigame and somewhat of a social element and little else, nor does it need to be anything more.

It could be more though if Blizzard was actually willing to invest more time and effort into balancing it and creating actual content. But they won't. The amount of work that goes into PvP is decreased drastically. Just look at gearing. Back in WoD one of the main criticisms regarding Ashran was that it provided RNG loot instead of conquest points. What's the logical consequence? Exactly... Make the entirety of PvP gear only obtainable through RNG (with some bonus RNG added on top). Who asked for this change?

[Lorianus]

They should really work on reasons why the majority of casuals should queue up rated, there are zero rewards sub 2k, the elite set at 2k and then tabards/enchants @ 2.4k.

What Arena play is missing since MoP/WoD is the big 1500-2000 bracket thats filled to the brim with people queuing, that in my opinion got annihilated because of no meaningful gear rewards.

Without that big chunk of teams queuing up there is also a lack of teams to get MMR from, lets say, in WotlK/Cata you could climb rather high on your MMR/CR with nearly every composition because you wouldnt queue 3 Hours against the "insert new Fotm comp" 20 games straight, there was enough comp variety in between because of the higher player count.

[Lady Dragonheart]

It could be more though if Blizzard was actually willing to invest more time and effort into balancing it and creating actual content. But they won't. The amount of work that goes into PvP is decreased drastically. Just look at gearing. Back in WoD one of the main criticisms regarding Ashran was that it provided RNG loot instead of conquest points. What's the logical consequence? Exactly... Make the entirety of PvP gear only obtainable through RNG (with some bonus RNG added on top). Who asked for this change?

I agree with their choice, actually.

[ls-]

Oh they do, they see eSports potential in arenas. There's only two "problems" for Blizz: WoW is an MMORPG and not a MOBA, and PvP is a side activity, a mini game in WoW.

On a side note, I prefer RBGs, they're my fav form of PvP. Sadly, WoW PvP is balanced around arena and small 2v2/3v3 comps, these two PvP modes require kinda different things from players, and this post sums up my thoughts quite nicely.

Well... the objectives in RBGs require you to kill enemies constantly.
Flag carrier? Kill
Someone defending point? Kill
Thus having low TTK (time to kill) works well, because it keeps game dynamic.

However the "main" pvp game-mode aka Arena requires players to live longer otherwise games would be just "burst first guy in range".
It's conflict of interest.

Then add healers to it and you have whole another level of complex.

[Deleted]

They put Nooblinka in charge despite the fact that the man is literally CLUELESS when it comes to pvp design, which has been proven countless times. So definitely not!

They don't fire him because he's like a friend or something, and he doesn't have the brains to realize he's a drag, so enjoy the status quo until the next expansion.

[Nerovar]

I agree with their choice, actually.

Well, considering that your only arena achievement is "Step into the arena" that doesn't really surprise me (no offense). But try to think about it from a PvP point of view because there is a group of players who prefer to only play PvP.
Do you really think they should design PvP for the people who occasionally play a random battleground or those who are really passionate about it?

[Deleted]

If they do, it doesn't show.

But let's be honest, we all know it's a pve game where pvp was always a sidegame at best.

[Cuppy]

They could make PvP nearly perfect, but it's pretty hard when they don't play it themselves
If you think wow as a huge kettle of soup, how can you spice it if you don't taste it yourself, especially when it's constantly evolving.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Well, considering that your only arena achievement is "Step into the arena" that doesn't really surprise me (no offense). But try to think about it from a PvP point of view because there is a group of players who prefer to only play PvP.
Do you really think they should design PvP for the people who occasionally play a random battleground or those who are really passionate about it?

I think they should design PvP for the consumer, the most common denominator, as a good business should. This is the casual crowd, as they have, and remained successful and profitable with.

No matter what you think or say, Blizzard is a company with profit in mind, it is plainly obvious that investing in a "passionate" hardcore crowd is a recipe for utter failure and pissing money, resources, and time away.

[Zephire]

Blizzard is doing things, like shorter seasons, different parameters between PvE and PvP etc. Does it work? I've no idea. What kind of reaction would you expect?

Where do you get all numbers from? Like the "2.5x *compared to WOD*", "All time low"? Is there some site I'm unaware of which provide such information? Please share the sources because I'd very much like to check them out.

[tss]

Where do you get all numbers from? Like the "2.5x *compared to WOD*", "All time low"? Is there some site I'm unaware of which provide such information? Please share the sources because I'd very much like to check them out.

It's extrapolated from the end of season statistics.

PVP has somehow become even more of a farce than WoD, so they might as well just throw caution to the wind and take their cues from the ERPing cat lady. At worst we end up with what we already have.

[Mythbredor]

I think they should design PvP for the consumer, the most common denominator, as a good business should. This is the casual crowd, as they have, and remained successful and profitable with.

No matter what you think or say, Blizzard is a company with profit in mind, it is plainly obvious that investing in a "passionate" hardcore crowd is a recipe for utter failure and pissing money, resources, and time away.

A perfect example of why catering to only the hardcore crowd doesn't work is Wildstar, they tried that. With the goal of "our dungeons and raids will be the hardest of any mmo" which they succeeded at and the hardcore players were already quite happy in their games. And the casuals felt the game was too hard so they lost their playerbase.

But blizzard honestly does care about PvP and the "hardcore" PvPers. But I think they're lost currently being that WoW and the players are changing significantly. They need to change how they handle PvP to encourage the more "casual" crowd to play while still keeping the hardcore crowd interested. I think that starts with making BGs fun, no clue how they would do that but there's another thread about it I believe. Random bgs just aren't fun, and as a main gateway into PvP as a whole it's slowly starving out the playerbase, if you go in as a more casual player with the mindset "Oh man let's do a BG that'll be fun!" and then it's a one way roflstomp that player probably won't consider coming back or ever joining the more hardcore pvp crowd.

I mean that's thinking a bit in the long term being that most players will never join the hardcore crowd but the few that do might never because of how unfriendly the entries to PvP are. How good you are is currently irrelevant it's how high you climbed last season, I noticed this as more of a casual PvPer *gasp*. Finding some decent people to clinb in arena which is extremely difficult because of that barrier to entry so I never really got into hardcore PvP.