Aff just got nerfed.

[Baconeggcheese]

It doesn't look great if you concern is MG being viable at all and Affliction not doing less damage than it currently is.

Theorycraft already started on it, in a worst case scenario it was around a 1.6% Dps loss in patchwerk which is completely negligible with MG still being the top talent on that row for ST. This also has the effect of just straight up buffing afflictions multi-target potential since that dmg was moved out of MG and back into dots, which means more damage in more situations.

If you have evidence to the contrary I'd be down to see it, but everything I've seen disagrees with your notion.

[Deleted]

This isn't the correct way to do this. You have to examine each component of our damage. UA damage is almost completely covered by Deadwind uptime and MG, as well as providing Contagion. Those are a lot of compounding buffs. Sub 30% drain uptimes are still accounting for well over 50% of total damage done.

Which is why my calculations are assuming Unstable Affliction has a 100% uptime of malefic grasp, while the other dots have 40%. The contagion multiplier is already built into the current damage and the updated damage, as is reap. I could optimise the other dots a bit better, but that's getting into proper sim territory and the effect that will have is very small anyway.

The 100% malefic grasp uptime is the absolute best case scenario which I'm pretty sure is virtually impossible to achieve anyway without overcapping shards. So it's no surprise that in a more realistic sim the difference is only a couple of %.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Yep, time to start saving AP for sure. I'm not investing a single point until I figure out how bad this is going to be for these specs.

What. Shits not happening for likely months.

[barackohmama]

I find it odd that people are shocked that aff is getting the nerf bat. The spec is one of the best at nearly everything. Something had to give.

- - - Updated - - -

Ehm why? affliction is one of the best yes. Does that justify a 30% nerf? not really.. you nerf something that is insanely op or broken by 30%(like shadow in EN), not something that is just a few percent ahead of the median.

[Deleted]

Affliction is one of the best at everything in the Nighthold where the raid design allows for excessively high buff uptimes.

Paladins would be doing exceptionally well too if they could have wings up for virtually the whole of a boss fight.

The thing that changed and gave affliction a huge boost is simply that they changed almost every add in raids to proc souls/shards/Wrath. The Nighthold encounters almost ALL have little adds you can tag for no other reason that to cheese buffs off them. It adds up to around 30% increase from maintaining Reap which doubles our artifact benefits - and then you can maintain a doubled 10% Wrath flat increase on top for a lot of the fight too. Even more worryingly, affliction is not even doing anything significant to those adds - like the blobs on Tichondrious, an afflock doesn't help to kill them, he or she simpyl tags them to proc souls/shards/Wrath whilst continuing to tunnel the boss with buffs up.

Such tactics are only really viable with a raid on farm where encounters are overgeared - in progress you want everyone who can damage those adds properly to do so because if they don;t die in time it;s a wipe.

Moreover, Sargeras encounters are different to Nighthold. Most of them just don't have those little trash-adds.

Affliction will take a big hit simply by not having those maintenance buffs up. It also takes a hit by losing the T19 armour bonuses which are extremely powerful. I know they've said they are going to change the T20, but the current ones are awful.

Yes, Malefic Grasp is a problem in that in outclasses every other talent and it enforces a specific playstyle, including making affliction locks not want to multi-dot even in a multidot fight. I can see the thinking behind the changes there.

Buit Malefic Grasp is NOT why affliction is "overperforming" in current raids.

Just look at the logs in 7.1.5 and then at 7.2

In 7.1.5 we were middle to upper tier dps except on Skorpyron - after 7.2 we jumped up right away, even before people got Rend. The reason is clear: the change in the way adds proc buffs where they simply did not before.

Also examine the logs - afflocks are not the "best at everything". They are doing extremely high damage whilst boss tunneling. And hardly anything else. This is only possible on farm content. In progress you want versatile dps preferably with on-demand burst which is why destruction has been and will be the favoured progression spec.

[Deleted]

I kind of disagree on the boss tunnel. Yes, you do your theoretical max dps if you do it, but you are far from useless on the blobs. Especially when you're talking about progress when the blobs don't instantly die like on overgeared farm.

I'm a bit concerned about the loss of burst with the change because on things like the big add at Tich, we actually will be rather useless come 7.2.5. Then again: This is where destro is supposed to shine, so maybe it's not such a bad thing that affli doesn't.

[garonne]

I kind of disagree on the boss tunnel. Yes, you do your theoretical max dps if you do it, but you are far from useless on the blobs. Especially when you're talking about progress when the blobs don't instantly die like on overgeared farm.

I'm a bit concerned about the loss of burst with the change because on things like the big add at Tich, we actually will be rather useless come 7.2.5. Then again: This is where destro is supposed to shine, so maybe it's not such a bad thing that affli doesn't.

thats where haunt is "suppose to" come into play.

[Deleted]

I kind of disagree on the boss tunnel. Yes, you do your theoretical max dps if you do it, but you are far from useless on the blobs. Especially when you're talking about progress when the blobs don't instantly die like on overgeared farm.

I'm a bit concerned about the loss of burst with the change because on things like the big add at Tich, we actually will be rather useless come 7.2.5. Then again: This is where destro is supposed to shine, so maybe it's not such a bad thing that affli doesn't.

Yeah but Nighthold is basically on farm, if you break down the logs you will see that afflocks are doing very high damage but all they are doing is boss tunelling except for tagging little adds to cheese buffs off them.

The changes mean that damage is going back to being baked into dots which is exactly the problem Malefic Grasp was brought in with a very high multiplier to fix along with affliction's dismal pure single target damage (which they;d porbably have fixed with a higher multipleier for Soul Effigy, except it was so widely despised - Grasp's othe rpurpose was simpyl to give afflocks a ST build that excluded Effigy)

The basic problem is simply this: Warcraft of 2017 is a fast-paced game where burst damage is more useful under almost any circumstance than ramping damage.

If affliction doesn; thave higher sustained damage than burst classes it is in deep do-do, because there is no reason at all to preferentially play affliction when a burst damage spec like destruction is not only just as good at sustained damage, it is way, way better at most other things.

At the moment affliction has a kind of "burst", if you dump a couple of UA's, pop Reap and use Grasp, you will if you are lucky get some big 1m+ crits. 7.2 will take that away and affliction will just be bad at "killing the blobs" or anything that doesn't have a really big health pool.

This is exactly why destruction was the preferred progression spec. On demand high burst is just so valuable, people take it even if destro's sustained single target is significantly lower.

[Deleted]

Aff could really use some mechanics to extend the duration of dots and to quickly apply/transfer them to a new target. Like SOULSWAP!!!

Even with something like a 10-30sec cooldown it would help allot if you can copy all dots (or just all except UA) from the boss to a priority add.

We currently need (without MG) 14sec of corr/SL and 18s of Agony to properly deal our first 3 GCD's full damage on target. If Adds would stay up for 20sec or so, we would have plenty of time to deal damage. Dots already deal more dmg per GCD then DD spells as they should. But the downside always is time it takes to apply the damage, and we can only have a single version of a DoT rolling.

Maybe they should give Aff the "intensity" mechanic GW2 effects have.

[JustaWarlock]

Soul swap sounds like a terrible idea.

[ComputerNerd]

I don't think anyone in their right mind didn't anticipate a nerf in some form. I think the issue is that, at least for me, I'd prefer blizz stop releasing a single massive nerf without more info. Just a quick note from the devs something along the line after the MG nerf in the notes "our motivation behind this is to spread the dmg out to other dots and make AFF less ST turret. Some of the MG nerf will be compensated further in the PTR; but we're waiting on numbers to see how much".

The problem with PTR builds is that they are a snapshot at the current time, of things in progress.
Players who then don't understand that, or more likely don't want to understand that will take something without context as final.
Look at the obsession with the MG reduction, which has been proven to look bigger than it actually is when you take it into context.

[Bjarkan]

The nerf on MG is actually a buff over Affly spec on general, as with the new damage on our dots we can be more flexible with our builds... Haunt for burst, Wither Agony for sustain AoE... Something in live is MG fot ST, MG for Burst, MG for sustain AoE...

In the end, the overall 1.6% of DPS loss is a tune matter, lets wait to the end of the PTR for say for sure Affly have been nerfed (in number a least, for me, have been buffed).

[Deleted]

The problem with PTR builds is that they are a snapshot at the current time, of things in progress.
Players who then don't understand that, or more likely don't want to understand that will take something without context as final.
Look at the obsession with the MG reduction, which has been proven to look bigger than it actually is when you take it into context.

Heh, it comes from a long experience of stuff going into the first iteration of PTR/alpha/beta builds and then staying there, no matter how awful they are, followed by a sticking plaster fix a few days into live when Blizz say "hey this is awful!"

It doesn;t help at all that Blizz have a bad tendency to slap out changes without any comment or context, often in isolation from other accompanying changes


Worth repeating, though, that the problem is not Malefic Grasp.

It's that almost every fight in Nighthold allows afflocks to keep up Wrath of Consumption and Reap for 50%-100% of the time.

Sargeras won't. If affliction's base dps remains as it is, we will be middle of the pack. Those afflocks are topping the charts now because the whole of the Nighthold allows us to maintain a 30-50% damage buff.

Before 7.2 affliction, except Skorpyron, afflocks were middle tier damage - nowhere near demon hunters and warriors. Then 7.2 hit and every add procs Wrath+Reap....guess what, with a permanent 30-50% buff we do lot sof damage!

Sargeras is mostly single target or cleave. It will be like EN where Wrath of Consumption does fuck all and Reap has low uptimes.

[Sunlighthell]

kek our t20 now pretty op and our last talent is no brain choice in all situations.

[ComputerNerd]

Heh, it comes from a long experience of stuff going into the first iteration of PTR/alpha/beta builds and then staying there, no matter how awful they are, followed by a sticking plaster fix a few days into live when Blizz say "hey this is awful!"

It doesn;t help at all that Blizz have a bad tendency to slap out changes without any comment or context, often in isolation from other accompanying changes


Worth repeating, though, that the problem is not Malefic Grasp.

It's that almost every fight in Nighthold allows afflocks to keep up Wrath of Consumption and Reap for 50%-100% of the time.

Sargeras won't. If affliction's base dps remains as it is, we will be middle of the pack. Those afflocks are topping the charts now because the whole of the Nighthold allows us to maintain a 30-50% damage buff.

Before 7.2 affliction, except Skorpyron, afflocks were middle tier damage - nowhere near demon hunters and warriors. Then 7.2 hit and every add procs Wrath+Reap....guess what, with a permanent 30-50% buff we do lot sof damage!

Sargeras is mostly single target or cleave. It will be like EN where Wrath of Consumption does fuck all and Reap has low uptimes.

Players who don't want context don't bother looking for it.
There was a narrow-minded focus on the reduction to MG, without trying to look for anything else.
Without trying to ask blizzard about anything else.
Just a lot of jumping to conclusions that affliction was "doomed".

No matter what context blizzard had provided, the same would have happened.

If people choose to take something without context, knowing full well what PTR builds have always been like then it is their fault only, not blizzards.

Do I think blizzard make bad decisions sometimes ?
Yes.

Do I think we should judge from a single number ?
NO, absolutely not.
Yet that is what happened.

[Liarparadox]

I have a feeling this trend is going to continue right up to the end of the PTR. 5% here, 5% over there. Until perhaps Aff no longer makes any sense unless it's a council fight. At least, that's my fear.

[Deleted]

It is inevitable. Bake the damage into the dots and you immediately have an unsolvable paradox, to be competetive single target through dots, you become god on council fights, if you are competetive on council fights you're dreck on single target fights. Unless you have a very strong single target only multiplier or ability. Which is exactly why we got Malefic Grasp and why it is so powerful.

We've had this damn pendulum swing for as long as I can remember and that is back to early BC days.

I also think they are going to keep salami slicing damage off us as they get logs that show how strong dots you can spread around become insanely powerful.

It's an irony that they are making affliction a council fight specialist right alongside launching a raid where virtually all the bosses are single target, some of them truly single target, no adds at all.

Warcth of Consumption and Soul Flame will do nothing most of the time (as in Emerald Nightmare), they have removed affliction's burst damage capacity almost totally; not so bad in raids, but it's going to hurt on Mythic dungeons. Oh and they nerfed Soul Flame and Wrath and See dof Corruption anyway. lol.

Fighting a boss like the one in Cathedral where you have to kill the portal adds very fast already sucks as aff. Now imagine it in 7.2.5

[Uzkin]

Affliction's mechanics are very good for encounters which do not exist in today's pve design, and very bad for encounters which are prevalent in today's pve design.

[Count Zero]

They'd have to reduce the cast time of Seed by like half for it to make any sense with it and Soul Flame's nerf.

Don't know why they don't just cap Soul Flame procs instead of reducing its damage. Hell make it work on single target and when things aren't dying ... minimum of (x) soul flame explosions per whatever, maximum of (y) per whatever. done done done

Too easy a fix I guess

[Deleted]

Affliction's mechanics are very good for encounters which do not exist in today's pve design, and very bad for encounters which are prevalent in today's pve design.

An even greater irony is that they actually admitted this (in the Blizzcon interview with Slootbag) and did a banaid called Malefic Grasp to addres sit.

But that hasn;t stopped them from redesigning affliction to bring all the old problems back, and right before a raid where the boss design will emphasise affliction's lacks.

Liek I said, we're rewritten as a coucil specialist...for a raid that is mostly single target. lol.

I think the underlying issue os going to be, again as the devs themselves have said - warcraft is an increasingly faster paced game, and it is already extremely hard to make a spec based on where you having ramping dots you need to put up on multiple targets, relevant.

There's hardly any circumstance where ramping spread damage is superior to on demand burst, but many situations where the reverse is true. If classes that can do burst also have roughly equal sustained damage then they are superior to play. Affliction eithe rhas considerably higher damage in the damage it does to make up for it;s weaknesses vs modern game design....or it will fall into disuse.

The only reason aff got popular was because the changes in 7.2 made it so powerful in farm content it's weakness at doing many tasks was irrelevent.

Won;t be true in progress. Theer was a reason that hardly anyone played aff in Emerald Nightmare. The numbe rof parses was a tiny fraction of destro's. Same for demo. Destruction has on-demand burst, which made it the king of progression specs. Dunno about Sargeras, demo might win there, because that does have incredibly strong damage to compensate it for it's lacks.