World PvP

[Danvash]

Blizzard has let player power scale completely out of control in world pvp to the point where it is easier to kill a player than it is to kill an npc. I used to like going around and fighting people on my pvp realm in previous expansions. With the way it works now though, pvp combat between geared players only lasts a few seconds--either you one shot them or they one shot you. Whoever can get the first stun off will probably win.

The best strategy right now for doing the pvp world quests right now is to avoid pvp as much as possible or just get a sneak attack on someone. I can go in Bareback Brawl on my warlock and get some demons out fighting npcs, then one shot someone from full health with Thalkiel's Consumption. And then in turn, a tank can jump me and hit for millions of damage per attack through my unending resolve.

The damage is completely ludicrous right now and needs to be toned down.

I think what Blizzard should do to solve this is give everyone some baseline pvp resilience out in the world that increases with your gear score.

[MechaCThun]

What people have been failing to realize about world PvP is that...

...world PvP is not a facet of the game Blizzard creates, maintains, "balances", or even promotes as a feature of their game. World PvP is a by-product.

Dungeons/raids, instanced PvP such as battlegrounds and arena, quests like zone quests and daily quests, class specializations and abilities, professions and pet battles... THOSE are direct features of the game Blizzard creates and maintains.

World PvP is like role-playing... it is something that you can engage in because conditions currently present in the game allow it. If you can find fun it in, then by all means engage in it.

But it's something Blizzard more-or-less did not intend to happen... OR at the very least, conceptualized the possibility for it to happen but it's not something that is a direct cause for their game to be ruined because the game was not created/designed to focus on.

If the issue at it's core is "world PvP is preventing me from doing/completing actual features of the game" ... like world quests, professions ... then we have discussion.

And most of the time that discussion begins and ends with "roll off of a PvP server" lol

EDIT: I forgot to mention about things such as Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, Ashran and the many sort of random buffs you can get @ Timeless Isle and Broken Shore... things like that cater towards the "world PvPer" but it doesn't change the fact that just because Blizzard doesn't focus on "world PvP" as a major feature of their game doesn't mean they don't care entirely.

[Luxeley]

Back towards the middle of MOP, Blizzard took resilience off pvp gear, nerfed pvp power into the ground and made resilience baseline. This meant someone in full LFR gear possessed greater primary and secondary stats by roughly 25-30%, better weapon, better trinkets and better set bonuses could easily wreck someone in full conquest gear. In Wod Blizzard fixed this with scaling i-lvl in pvp combat, but now we're back to greatly rewarding dragon slayers in World pvp. The more things change, the more they stay the same. This is just another example of Blizzard incredible incompetence with regard to anything pvp.

[Saberstrike]

At this point I have no idea why pvp servers even exist. The game is fundamentally broken to justify them being a thing.

I wouldn't mind a flat 50% dmg / healing reduction when abilities are used against other players during pvp combat, though -- because healing is just as broken as damage. A disc priest can fight 3 people, win and never lose a single hp.

[Krusza]

They were talking about adding back in base resilience and battle fatigue to accompany it, but they reverted the change because the battle fatigue would apparently make world bosses harder.

Pathetic really. Used to do WPvP as one of my main things, but it's pretty much unplayable now. Everyone one shots everyone, rogues can one shot entire raid groups with legendary cloak, tanks are gods... it's terrible.

[Sinndra]

~snip~I think what Blizzard should do to solve this is ...

If the issue at it's core is "world PvP is preventing me from doing/completing actual features of the game" ... like world quests, professions ... then we have discussion.

is a direct result of WPvP not offering much in terms of reward. people are most often trying to do other things the game offers because they want to earn a reward they can then show off.

thus making WPvP often a waste of time as a result. if WPvP were to have its own rewards and reward system, it might entice people to see the value of WPvP as more than just a speedbump to their rewards for their time.

WPvP does not need to be balanced in terms of classes and what not, its ok that things may be a bit unfair, but without rewards that are fairly easy to acquire (thus promoting alts to partake) people just want to avoid it altogether, making a few other people think well the problem must be balance, right?

[Hoeth]

Even though a -50% damage done and -50% healing taken debuff may occasionally affect other aspects of open world play on PVP servers, I think the tradeoff in addressing the catastrophe that is current WPVP would be worth it.

There is always a great deal of hyperbole when it comes to PVP, but you can honestly go from 100-0 in 3 seconds currently.

[Krusza]

Even though a -50% damage done and -50% healing taken debuff may occasionally affect other aspects of open world play on PVP servers, I think the tradeoff in addressing the catastrophe that is current WPVP would be worth it.

There is always a great deal of hyperbole when it comes to PVP, but you can honestly go from 100-0 in 3 seconds currently.

https://i.gyazo.com/c9d46f9928dc4623...ace19539f2.mp4

My entire raid group got one shotted by a rogue's fan of knives with dreadlord's deceit.

[Ravingmad]

https://i.gyazo.com/c9d46f9928dc4623...ace19539f2.mp4

My entire raid group got one shotted by a rogue's fan of knives with dreadlord's deceit.

Thats brutal, and quite frustrating. That rogue must be laughing is a** off.

Similar story I've heard from the Paladin Class Hall Champions, where a Horde raid was coming to Stormwind, they were about 20. They got almost instant kill with the Champion Lorthaxion's skill that Stun + Increase damage with 3 person to defend. Apparently it was was a swift and beautiful massacre.

I don't mind World PvP, I started on PvP server, as I like the "Be on your guard" stress that lvling or farming was giving. Overtime, people were camping or overkilling other to a point it was not fun anymore. So I moved to a PvE realm and didnt regret it. With the few PvP WQ out there, Im having enought fun as it is.
BUt its true it feels broken at some point. Mostly PvE gear (trinkets, like Draught of Soul) can pull crazy damage without much effort. Add the Artefact weapons Traits/Upgrade and some class can become insanely powerful in PvE. With all the Buff we can get, its easy to get 7M HP just being a DPS (Suramar +50% HP buff and +15%Murloc PvP WQ flower) and oneshot people. I can't imagine how people grind for Cristal of the Broken Shore (Sentinax) on a PvP server, it must be madness.

[Kagthul]

What people have been failing to realize about world PvP is that...

...world PvP is not a facet of the game Blizzard creates, maintains, "balances", or even promotes as a feature of their game. World PvP is a by-product.

Dungeons/raids, instanced PvP such as battlegrounds and arena, quests like zone quests and daily quests, class specializations and abilities, professions and pet battles... THOSE are direct features of the game Blizzard creates and maintains.

World PvP is like role-playing... it is something that you can engage in because conditions currently present in the game allow it. If you can find fun it in, then by all means engage in it.

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But it's something Blizzard more-or-less did not intend to happen...

Yes they did. From day one of beta development. Probably even earlier, but i was in the original beta, and they definitely intended wPvP to be a thing. In fact, it was the ONLY form of PvP. Battlegrounds were not planned originally.

OR at the very least, conceptualized the possibility for it to happen but it's not something that is a direct cause for their game to be ruined because the game was not created/designed to focus on.

They designed an entire system of gaining gear around World PvP in vanilla. Battlegrounds didn't come for quite some time after launch.

If the issue at it's core is "world PvP is preventing me from doing/completing actual features of the game" ... like world quests, professions ... then we have discussion.

And most of the time that discussion begins and ends with "roll off of a PvP server" lol

EDIT: I forgot to mention about things such as Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, Ashran and the many sort of random buffs you can get @ Timeless Isle and Broken Shore... things like that cater towards the "world PvPer" but it doesn't change the fact that just because Blizzard doesn't focus on "world PvP" as a major feature of their game doesn't mean they don't care entirely.

This time... they shat the bed and do not care at all.

wPvP is full on herpaghonnaciphilaids. It's about PvE gear, entirely, and PvE rotations and abilities. They took a system that worked (finally!) after 11+ years (scaling iLevel on PvP gear) and threw it in the trash for templates that haven't worked at all (they still have to individually tune abilities after every template change), and have kept up with the rampant and pointless ilevel mudlfation which leads to exponential damage gains and makes PvP unplayable.

This is entirely Blizzard's fault. The only reason im still on a PvP server is because i will not reward Blizzard with ~150$ to transfer my toons and guild off for their fuckup.

[StayTuned]

What people have been failing to realize about world PvP is that...

...world PvP is not a facet of the game Blizzard creates, maintains, "balances", or even promotes as a feature of their game. World PvP is a by-product.

Dungeons/raids, instanced PvP such as battlegrounds and arena, quests like zone quests and daily quests, class specializations and abilities, professions and pet battles... THOSE are direct features of the game Blizzard creates and maintains.

World PvP is like role-playing... it is something that you can engage in because conditions currently present in the game allow it. If you can find fun it in, then by all means engage in it.

But it's something Blizzard more-or-less did not intend to happen... OR at the very least, conceptualized the possibility for it to happen but it's not something that is a direct cause for their game to be ruined because the game was not created/designed to focus on.

If the issue at it's core is "world PvP is preventing me from doing/completing actual features of the game" ... like world quests, professions ... then we have discussion.

And most of the time that discussion begins and ends with "roll off of a PvP server" lol

EDIT: I forgot to mention about things such as Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, Ashran and the many sort of random buffs you can get @ Timeless Isle and Broken Shore... things like that cater towards the "world PvPer" but it doesn't change the fact that just because Blizzard doesn't focus on "world PvP" as a major feature of their game doesn't mean they don't care entirely.

That's just such a wall of bloated crap.

Open PVP was one of the core lore concepts of early WoW. Alliance Vs. Horde, kill each other on sight. PVE servers were the extra for people who didn't want to bother with the possibility of getting ganked.

There are whole achievements dedicated to open PVP.

They just left it to rot.

[dacoolist]

I used to think world pvp was actually a thing: until WoD. Blizzard doesn't give a damn anymore sadly.. and obviously, with them spending time creating new content, and balancing.. I guess I'd rather them spend time doing that-then caring about rolling on a pvp server or not.

[MechaCThun]

That's just such a wall of bloated crap.

Open PVP was one of the core lore concepts of early WoW. Alliance Vs. Horde, kill each other on sight. PVE servers were the extra for people who didn't want to bother with the possibility of getting ganked.

There are whole achievements dedicated to open PVP.

They just left it to rot.

You say it's bloated crap because you don't agree with it and you cite reasons so old and few which really is you just clinging to what once was.

World PvP being a "core lore concept of early WoW" is the same thing as saying long attunement chains for content; inevitably it's either phased out completely or undergoes revision.

Attunement still exists today in the game but not nearly as it once was; the same as world PvP. Blizzard never focused their entire freaking game around either of them, nor did they plan to adjust the primary focuses of their game around world PvP.

So when you say it's bloated crap all I hear is your bitterness towards something you have no control over.

Them "leaving it to rot" is debatable since the argument can be made of world PvP zones and items that benefit world PvP situations have been implemented since.

Don't be mad it's over, be happy it happened.

[StayTuned]

Them "leaving it to rot" is debatable since the argument can be made of world PvP zones and items that benefit world PvP situations have been implemented since.

They did leave it to rot. Items that benefit world PVP? You mean like DOS, aka I go LFR and now I one shot something every 1.2 minutes?

[Schattenlied]

What people have been failing to realize about world PvP is that...

...world PvP is not a facet of the game Blizzard creates, maintains, "balances", or even promotes as a feature of their game. World PvP is a by-product.

Dungeons/raids, instanced PvP such as battlegrounds and arena, quests like zone quests and daily quests, class specializations and abilities, professions and pet battles... THOSE are direct features of the game Blizzard creates and maintains.

World PvP is like role-playing... it is something that you can engage in because conditions currently present in the game allow it. If you can find fun it in, then by all means engage in it.

But it's something Blizzard more-or-less did not intend to happen... OR at the very least, conceptualized the possibility for it to happen but it's not something that is a direct cause for their game to be ruined because the game was not created/designed to focus on.

If the issue at it's core is "world PvP is preventing me from doing/completing actual features of the game" ... like world quests, professions ... then we have discussion.

And most of the time that discussion begins and ends with "roll off of a PvP server" lol

EDIT: I forgot to mention about things such as Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, Ashran and the many sort of random buffs you can get @ Timeless Isle and Broken Shore... things like that cater towards the "world PvPer" but it doesn't change the fact that just because Blizzard doesn't focus on "world PvP" as a major feature of their game doesn't mean they don't care entirely.

This is all entirely irrelevant... World PvP in previous expansions was balanced the exact same way all other PvP was, but this time around blizzard made the conscious decision to NOT balance it at all... They intentionally made PvP templates not activate in the open world, or in DUELS when they very easily could and should have... Or they could have just, you know, not used the extremely flawed template system to begin with.


Also, whether they wanted it to be or not, world PvP IS a selling point for the game, many people used to enjoy it before this mess, so it IS something they should maintain balance in, especially given that if they do it right it shouldn't require any additional effort at all beyond the balancing they do for every other type of PvP.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I disagree. Killing people is almost impossible, but that is mostly because the only ones actively engaging me (read: seeking trouble) in WPvP are either reta.. I mean dona.. I mean fuwy warriors and bear druids. Some emo hunters as well.

[Bullettime]

It's pretty frustrating, even just to do certain world PvP quests, so I'm not sure how people on the PvP servers can stand it. It's not fun when a Frost DK, Havoc DH, or any tank can just freely wreck shit. World PvP basically feels like a matter of picking the right spec, and it seems like it's only really the ones who did who enjoy it at all or you see doing it all the time.

Anytime there's a free for all world PvP quest, I'll see the same classes out there camping it for hours. Templates work better with instanced PvP but if you're not the right spec or have enough gear, you may as well not even try world PvP.

[Schattenlied]

Templates work better with instanced PvP

No, templates work at all with instanced PvP, they do not function in the world, that's why WPvP is so fucked up. Tanks aren't strong at all in instanced PvP because the template appropriately nerfs them.


Templates need to work everywhere, or nowhere, and if they work nowhere, we will get actual PvP balance done like in the previous expansions... Templates are a fucking trainwreck of a failed design.

[Bullettime]

No, templates work at all with instanced PvP, they do not function in the world, that's why WPvP is so fucked up. Tanks aren't strong at all in instanced PvP because the template appropriately nerfs them.


Templates need to work everywhere, or nowhere, and if they work nowhere, we will get actual PvP balance done like in the previous expansions... Templates are a fucking trainwreck of a failed design.

That's my point though. The system works with instanced PvP but world PvP is a god damn trainwreck, needing like 4 people to take down a 6m health tank or getting 3 shot by someone with like 40 less ilvls just because they play a certain spec. They need to work everywhere.

[Matthias]

No, templates work at all with instanced PvP, they do not function in the world, that's why WPvP is so fucked up. Tanks aren't strong at all in instanced PvP because the template appropriately nerfs them.


Templates need to work everywhere, or nowhere, and if they work nowhere, we will get actual PvP balance done like in the previous expansions... Templates are a fucking trainwreck of a failed design.

I honestly agree. I really feel like the ilvl scaling system they had with WoD was working just fine and could have been tweek'd. For example if a class was currently too strong, they could simply nerf their overall PvP ilvl.

Now I see why Blizz never wanted to balance PvP and PvE separately. Dueling and WPvP was a great way to make practice your PvP abilities, while waiting in queue or waiting on teammates or your RBG group to form, etc. I honed a lot of my skills in duels and WPvP learning how other classes function, etc. To say that World PvP is just a by product of the game and we should just piss off is just dumb. WPvP was the original PvP.

It's also sad since this would have been the best time for WPvP in sometime now. There is no flying, and no garrisons so we have a reason to be out and about, on the ground.