Why would blizzard ruin the only thing that made world content bearable?

[Thelxi]

Honestly, who cares. There isn't a single open world quest that you need a group for. If you want to do quests more efficiently, go get some better gear and aoe everything in sight. Game performance should absolutely be prioritized over convenience.

- - - Updated - - -

Legion is quickly becoming the least healer friendly expansion out there.

Did you start playing in MoP? because this could not be more false.

[Rehok]

And that's fine, I know many people don't use the addon or even know that it exists. But to make unfounded claims that this addon is single handedly responsible for the massive server lag in 7.2 is irresponsible and technically incorrect on a multitude of levels.

They never said it was 1 addon


In order to alleviate those issues, we’ve recently applied a hotfix that changes how addons interact with the Group Finder.

Blizzard won't just go and blame addons for the sake of it. It just so happens WQGF is the biggest one out there

[Deleted]

What do you mean "why"? They give perfectly valid reasons for why, and if you think their concerns were nothing but a lie to pull some conspiracy on us then you grossly overestimate their servers and underestimate the effect of DDoS and just how shitty WQGF were coded and implemented.

[Rotted]

The world quest addon change is one of the most ridiculous changes blizzard has made in a while. Addons like world quest group finder were not hurting anyone. The whole idea of trying to slow us down from doing emmisaries quickly and effeciently across multiple toons is pedantic, not sure why they insist on trying to artificially increase the amount of time they take to complete. Started with mob scaling with ilvl in 7.2 and now removing the ability to automatically join groups for world quests. Clearly they are trying to appeal to the casual player base who play one toon and want to take 30-45 minutes doing daily content artificially increasing the amount of "content", while simultaneously punishing those of us who are trying to get them done efficiently across multiple toons a day. They claim it was to fix server lag issues but its fairly obvious the goal here is to increase the time taken to do mundane daily content that no one really wants to do. Also they touted the benefit of leveling through invasions which worked great until today who is going to manually accept a non lvl 110 to their group, this change single handedly increased the time to do the 6 world quests on a leveling toon by at least a factor of 2. Guess there really is no reason to log in now except for raids and mythic+, no one really enjoys the world quest system anyway but at least we had a way to make it less tedious now that's gone, glad to see Blizzard is trying to kill any form of group content and trying to make this a single player RPG...

Not hurting anyone,

It was causing massive amount of lag for people, ruining their experience.

You're just fucked off because you have manually make an effort to form groups once again, don't try to sugar coat it as anything else.

[Evangeliste]

They've had loading issues especially at the loading screens with Varian for a while, there's posts dating back from last year from it which will be client to server based and very much related to this. One of the fixes on client side was SET worldPreloadNonCritical "0" which without knowing their sharding tech - one can assume this ties in with the grouping as when you switch to a new server it has to preload server-related content... Like the 20 other players mashing the World Boss you're after.
It kind of says how much of an impact these addons are having to impose on not one server... but clusters of servers too that have been aligned. Not to mention battlegroups and more.

I think you're being selfish and at the end you only pay to play their services, you own nothing including the addons you claim help. These addons are also third party - if they were Blizzard based then they could solve it but they can't, instead they could be dicks overall and completely shut down third party development but they encourage rather instead. Anyway, these addons clearly aren't helping and damage the game in which you agreed to not do when you made an account and subscribe. Suck it up really, if you don't like it then simply unsubscribe rather than being infuriated and blowing wind on the forums.

[omeomorfismo]

Except for their servers are designed to handle a massive amount of requests. If 100,000 people are using the addon which limits the amount of groups you can apply to 5 at a time that is 500,000 client server interactions to process. If there are the same 100,000 people fighting 1 single mob over a 5 second period that is at least double the amount of client server interactions since each ability press and each mob white swing/abilty use all require the same amount of network bandwidth and processing cycles.

- - - Updated - - -



At no point did I go into casual bashing at all, I never said it was wrong for them to attempt to appeal to the casual player base I understand that it is the vast majority of the player base and I don't expect them to cater to the top couple % of the hardcore contingent. My argument was simply that just because they stated a technical reason for the change it doesn't mean that reason is valid. Apparently it is completely incomprehensible that blizzard would invent a technical reason to make an API change to stop an addon they don't want to exist.

They have locked down and changed major parts of the API in every patch of legion all with the intent of stopping certain addon functionalities. The Unit facing change they made in 7.1 in competitive instances, the nameplate change in 7.2 not saying these changes weren't good for the game as I actually think they were. At least with those changes they actually told us why they made them. I am myself an addon dev and I agree that some of the addons we had in early legion went too far with trivializing certain encounter aspects. But in this patch they have made 2 changes that both were intended to artificially increase the time to do world quests the first one(mob scaling) was met with unparalleled outrage and then reverted, you really think that they are incapable of inventing a reason to slow it down to avoid that same outrage with this change?

so you know the architecture that manage del lfg.
fix it then, what are you waiting?

[ComputerNerd]

Except for their servers are designed to handle a massive amount of requests. If 100,000 people are using the addon which limits the amount of groups you can apply to 5 at a time that is 500,000 client server interactions to process. If there are the same 100,000 people fighting 1 single mob over a 5 second period that is at least double the amount of client server interactions since each ability press and each mob white swing/abilty use all require the same amount of network bandwidth and processing cycles.

- - - Updated - - -



At no point did I go into casual bashing at all, I never said it was wrong for them to attempt to appeal to the casual player base I understand that it is the vast majority of the player base and I don't expect them to cater to the top couple % of the hardcore contingent. My argument was simply that just because they stated a technical reason for the change it doesn't mean that reason is valid. Apparently it is completely incomprehensible that blizzard would invent a technical reason to make an API change to stop an addon they don't want to exist.

They have locked down and changed major parts of the API in every patch of legion all with the intent of stopping certain addon functionalities. The Unit facing change they made in 7.1 in competitive instances, the nameplate change in 7.2 not saying these changes weren't good for the game as I actually think they were. At least with those changes they actually told us why they made them. I am myself an addon dev and I agree that some of the addons we had in early legion went too far with trivializing certain encounter aspects. But in this patch they have made 2 changes that both were intended to artificially increase the time to do world quests the first one(mob scaling) was met with unparalleled outrage and then reverted, you really think that they are incapable of inventing a reason to slow it down to avoid that same outrage with this change?

Making generalisations about the casuals, which are outright wrong.
That is casual bashing, plain and simple.
Casuals are time-constrained players, who actually want the opposite of what you claim is being pushed onto you by them.
Casual means organising your play around your life, Hardcore is organising your life around your play.

Overuse of casual as some derogatory term, to generalise someone below someone's "standards".
If you are actively seeking to do something at such a frequency that any perceived "nerf" to its efficiency causes such an outrage, then you need to look in the mirror to see the problem.

And never claim that noise proves anything about the representation of an opinion.
That has been proven to be utterly false many times.
Those happy, or indifferent do not need to fish for supporting voices, or yell about it.
Make an argument that isn't "because someone else said so".
Because others have said differently, therefore making such an argument for us equally valid if yours was.

[RoKPaNda]

Obviously some of you have never looked at the group finder without WQGF. It's just flooded with WQGF bullshit that is completely worthless to anyone without the addon.

[rad586]

WQGF not the cause of it because it has existed for some time ? Are you kidding me ?

Ofcourse addons like that don't cause problems at first because SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE is using it at first. If there's a problem with such an addon, it will manifest as more and more people start using it. When enough people started using them, it was causing problems for enough people for Blizzard to take action.

Like I said in another thread :

If the addon was the cause of the lagfest in crossrealm groups (especially groups for world bosses), then Blizzard was merciful in handling this issue.

I would kill it with a shotgun. And then burn the remains just in case.

Soloing world quests is not hard. Questing solo is not hard. I'm doing it all the time. Always been, unless the quest / world quest required real tank and several dpsers. These days I just switch to prot and solo it anyway

[effs]

Biggest time waster with WQ is the travel time, yes, even with flying, even though it's a bit better with. In ye olde times you had all dailies in 1 small area, now you have them all over the zone (and in case of wardens and kirin tor, often all over the map). The time it takes to click 10 squirrels is minuscule in comparison, but some people don't wanna click their squirrels, they wanna chill and let others click them while they watch netflix / youtube on a second monitor.

I wish there was an addon that would let me skip all the stupid travel time new system imposed, but I can't. The mobs I can kill myself no problem. And even without groupfinder addons / being grouped you can still tag other people's mobs as long as they're the same faction.

All the goddamn WQ are making me is spam more posts on MMO-champ because I alt tab while flying and then forget wtf was I doing.

Wouldn't you have had this issue with dailies? This isn't really new.

[Acidbaron]

Honestly, who cares. There isn't a single open world quest that you need a group for. If you want to do quests more efficiently, go get some better gear and aoe everything in sight. Game performance should absolutely be prioritized over convenience.

- - - Updated - - -



Did you start playing in MoP? because this could not be more false.

Good luck doing rare quests on alts who can't solo things yet, especially if your realm isn't overpopulated.

At the least the option should ahve been given to list and search a group with one press, this is going to put a lot of people off from doing wq's or playing the game in general mark my words.

[Tharkkun]

I clearly did read the post for their reasoning but my points about their unstated intent are still valid. I only brought up the mob scaling thing to show that this is indeed a design goal for them to make world quests take longer as they said basically that in the blue post about mob scaling. While there obviously have been some server lag issues since 7.2 perhaps they should look at the underlying causes instead of blaming an addon. WQGF existed since 7.1 and the world lag started in 7.2 when half the game was broken and parts of it still are. Clearly there is more underlying architecture problems with their infrastructure blaming it on an addon that worked flawlessly in a previous patch is a cop out. As far as the argument that WQGF is essentially DDoSing the servers that is fairly unfounded. The amount of client server interactions that happen because of this addon are a miniscule percent of the interactions that the game must handle on a per second basis for every other system in the game. Simply entering combat with a mob would cause far more client/server requests than an addon auto-queuing you for 5 groups at once.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Blizzard is far more aware of what is causing the issue then some player who has no access to performance data. There were problems before 7.2. It wasn't as common but it existed and now that 7.2 added more WQ's and an incentive to continue doing them again the problem was made worse. It's just like opening massive amounts of instances caused performance on the servers due to botters opening hundreds of instances at once. There's no reason for it. It only makes sense to have a confirmation to open the group/create a shard, etc. For big groups like the world bosses there's already a search icon which works great.

I uninstalled the addon after about a month because it was annoying as hell and quite frankly I didn't need assistance from others on any of my characters.

[Shakou]

I'm pretty god damn sure that the only issue here is people who are so lazy they will forego doing content because they can't click 1 button to join a group.

Don't worry evolution wasn't in your favor anyways.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty god damn sure that the only issue here is people who are so lazy they will forego doing content because they can't click 1 button to join a group.

Don't worry evolution wasn't in your favor anyways.

Yep, laziness is exactly the reason I cant solo elite mobs with 15mil+ health on a 110 character, I am sorry I am so lazy.

- - - Updated - - -

Not hurting anyone,

It was causing massive amount of lag for people, ruining their experience.

You're just fucked off because you have manually make an effort to form groups once again, don't try to sugar coat it as anything else.

Wrong, if people got put back on their own servers when they left a group it wouldnt be so much of a problem but they dont want to fix anything just break more shit.

Nobody uses the premade tool to join or create groups, I sat at one of todays Legion Assaults for the solo big guy for over 3 minutes waiting for people to show up because nobody was joining my group I made and nobody was making any groups.

[ComputerNerd]

Obviously some of you have never looked at the group finder without WQGF. It's just flooded with WQGF bullshit that is completely worthless to anyone without the addon.

I have during world quests, which tend to be named by the quest - instead of some random "world boss", mob name or something else you are unlikely to guess by chance.
At least the addon means groups have the correct name to search for.

I have had a very different experience from yours.
Then again, I don't try to use the group finder for most world quests, a few bigger elites or world bosses generally.

[Deleted]

Well at least now people can't just fly above the area and afk for completion (hopefully)

[Cyi]

I guess my issue is that I have not seen or heard of anyone complaining of lag due to this. I don't recall massive forum posts with thousands of pleading users mentioning lag. It feels like this was just brought out of the weeds or something. Thats what makes me suspicious of it. Lets not forget, Blizzard has broken addons in the past simply because they didn't feel good about it, or that they had a better way.

I wasn't a leacher, nor was I abusing the system. I never had a bad experience using it. I don't recall mass outrage and concern about this add-on or its effects.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I do WQ's across 2-3 characters on a daily basis, didn't use the addon, feels perfectly "bearable" to me... but then I play the game and do shit I actually want to do rather than viewing the entire game as a necessary evil hurdle to jump before getting to that one part...

[ComputerNerd]

I guess my issue is that I have not seen or heard of anyone complaining of lag due to this. I don't recall massive forum posts with thousands of pleading users mentioning lag. It feels like this was just brought out of the weeds or something. Thats what makes me suspicious of it. Lets not forget, Blizzard has broken addons in the past simply because they didn't feel good about it, or that they had a better way.

I wasn't a leacher, nor was I abusing the system. I never had a bad experience using it. I don't recall mass outrage and concern about this add-on or its effects.

You seem to be relying on people connecting the two.
Most complaints I see about lag aren't immediately attributed to something specific, or even after much discussion.
Plus do the lack of complaints about lag prove that there isn't any ?
I would say not, because it is possibly in those cases just dismissed away as "something that happens", and they would be right much of the time.
How much is an average player going to really dig into the cause ?
And how far can even a more knowledgeable one dig into it beyond an issue between them and blizzard.

Blizzard have in many cases simply said they didn't like something.
So why would there be a reason to lie in this one.
I just think that you don't like the consequence, and so have to find some way to bash someone for the decision.

[TheFirstOnes]

So they slowly suffocate Oqueue (which was still better than the current LFG) and claim to make a tool that does NOT cause server issues. Now when people implement the API to make it easy for all players to enjoy the repetitive elements of the game, they shut it down instead of improving their matchmaking backend.

Funny how up until 7.2 there were none of the said "latency issues" despite WQGF existing right since the beginning.

I call BS on this. Honestly ever since the WoD flying fiasco I think Blizzard is trying as much as they can to delay or throttle players from doing their content. WQGF was such an ace addon that even with leechers and realm hoppers abusing it, the power of seamless grouping for content made enjoying the game much easier.

I would post this plea on the forums but I'm EU so no luck. But if any of the devs look at these posts read this:

Many of the WoW players, new and old have families, jobs and myriads of "grown-up" obligations. Every time you throttle players who have precious little time to get a return on their subscription investment, WoW turns from a fun, recreational and social activity into a stressful game where the time ratio of time investment to reward rapidly deteriorates. Many players just want to log in, do whatever grind, farm, challenge..etc activity in the game then log off because those tax returns won't finish themselves or their family obligations require attention or that project at work needs those extra hours to get done for the expected bonus. I'll not be one of those people calling to dumb-down the game and making it easier for everyone. But every quality-of-life bit that eases logistics or repetitiveness is indispensable for some players who can't afford to be customers and more importantly: FANS of this game year after year without them. Perfect rotation, cool-down use, optimal use of class toolkits and lightning quick reflexes will remain the hallmark of player skill and will remain the challenge that makes it all worth it.

I guess the MMO market isn't for them, then.

Shall I suggest other simpler games? For example: Hearthstone, or HoTS!