Warlock question..

[Atoczix]

Hi there! I haven't played this gamed properly in months. When Legion released and Emerald Nightmare was announced, I used to raid with an old Guild but the whole spec switching per boss put me off a lot. I'm not sure if it's like this for every class.

Example, switching between Demonology and Destruction most of the time. I have just wanted to get back into raiding again, but is it still that way? I did some research and it looks like Affliction is coming out on top, but I hate Affliction.. so that's not an option.

I'll just get right to my basic question; is Destruction viable in all aspects? Can it be used in m+, all raid bosses, efficient single target, cleave and aoe? Or will I still have to change? I don't really like the other specs :/

[Shodan30]

Kinda hard to say with the next patch changing everything so much. it LOOKS like destro and affliction will be generally viable specs to play any bosses, maybe requiring some talent changes but not spec swapping but its too early to say what the PTR will finally shake out and how it will look on the meteres. Both specs are getting some massive changes.

[TummyBoy]

This information can be gathered mainly from WarcraftLogs, but in its current state Destruction is under-average in ST situations. It's not the worst in the game but it's fairly far down there. The only place where Destruction really stands out from the pack is in two-target cleave, where the two targets are spaced out (such as phase 1 Odyn, Elisande to an extent even though other specs are rapidly catching up, etc).

The thing is, Blizzard right now is specifically addressing the ST/2 target disparity with Destruction. They're nerfing Havoc, and the idea is for them to buff our overall damage to compensate, along with changing the resource system. How the spec will turn out is a mystery. I'm cautiously optimistic at the moment, and I think Flame Rift helped tremendously as well.

Demonology is looking very good at the moment, and I've mained it since 7.2 was released. Bursting down adds will still be a weakness of the spec so every raid leader will be happy to have a Destruction Warlock for that job, but Demonology will likely be very solid in ToS, especially considering our set bonuses.

There's no need to force yourself to play Affliction if you don't want to, that is unless you want to exclusively do M+. I do OK in M+ as Destruction, especially during the weeks where you can't pull too many mobs at the same time (Bursting, Explosive, etc). Some people are saying Demonology's going to be very strong in M+ come 7.2.5, but I have a lot of doubts about that.

[Fabinas]

Play what you like/have invested in artifact and legendaries. You don't seem to go for ToS progression from your post so, don't bother with anything else.

[Baconeggcheese]

I've played destruction on 20 out of 20 mythic bosses this xpac.

You haven't had to swap specs at any point if you didn't really have the desire / time to build up the other specs. You'll ofc suffer in areas where the spec isn't great, but that's a choice you'd have to make.

[Unholy_Prince]

Unless you're pushing top 500 world the spec you play won't matter in the long run - play what you like and perform well on.

[Gaidax]

I really like Destruction, but it's an uphill battle really. There is no ifs or buts about it - Destruction is weak at the moment, while Affliction is overtuned.

That said there are some significant swings going on in PTR - there is no doubt Affliction is on a nerf path, while Destruction is being uplifted - the question is by how much, but I do have hopes things will balance out better in ToS, because from PTR it is obvious that Destruction is in a better shape than live and unless Blizz pulls out last minute Destruction nerf on PTR - it will at least be better numbers-wise than now for sure.

[Lucrece]

Well, affliction's changes are pretty much DPS neutral or close to it. Destruction saw a modest bump in already low ST and a questionable change on AoE.

Destruction 2T is fairly dampened.

I still play destruction because it's fun and visceral. All you do on demo and affliction is manage dots. On destro you get to machine gun 1-1.2 million chaosbolts with feretory of souls and soul conduit while portals are pummeling your target with fire, chaos and shadow bolts.

The feedback from your input on destro is pretty immediate. And you have green fire (albeit outdated), while all demo has is pitiful imps and dogs and affliction has the same old vanilla smoke puff clouds and a pink beam.

[Baconeggcheese]

Destruction 2T is fairly dampened.

I'm not experiencing this, where are you guys seeing reduced 2 target?

[Lucrece]

I'm not experiencing this, where are you guys seeing reduced 2 target?

With wreak havoc you now have a ~10 second downtime, and if your havoc add gets gibbed it's not like you're gonna reapply havoc to something else immediately. The burst 2T is not bad but that availability to clone your damage onto a second add DID decrease (as intended/needed).

I just don't think destro is there numerically yet for ST or AoE and now we may not even be king of 2T so we will only be king of priority add damage.

[Baconeggcheese]

With wreak havoc you now have a ~10 second downtime, and if your havoc add gets gibbed it's not like you're gonna reapply havoc to something else immediately. The burst 2T is not bad but that availability to clone your damage onto a second add DID decrease (as intended/needed).

I just don't think destro is there numerically yet for ST or AoE and now we may not even be king of 2T so we will only be king of priority add damage.

I mean, the sustained 2t remains roughly the same as far as I've seen and our priority dmg is much higher.

What you're describing is allowing you to swap around havoc freely which is really only a problem if you weren't thinking about how to apply havoc in the first place. If you were playing well, or if you've played destruction the last 2 xpacs, its a non-issue.

The reason you bring destro locks to raid is for priority damage, so that's a damned good thing to be. I don't care about being top on the overall meter, I care about killing bosses. Being king of priority damage is one of thee most useful things you can be to do that.

[Gaidax]

Well, affliction's changes are pretty much DPS neutral or close to it.

Affliction is hammered, I think you are just fooled by that phoney 20% buff. It does not affect Agony and Unstable Affliction.

What affliction gets is a net nerf, while on the flipside Destruction will be quite OP with how F&B works in PTR.

[Deleted]

Affliction is hammered, I think you are just fooled by that phoney 20% buff. It does not affect Agony and Unstable Affliction.

What affliction gets is a net nerf, while on the flipside Destruction will be quite OP with how F&B works in PTR.

While I would love to agree with you, this is unfortunately wishful thinking. Affliction will still be rather OP - unless they do another pass at it in heroic week. Can't speak to Destruction as I've not found the time to test it on PTR. Theoretically from the patch notes I've read, it should go up a bit, but I'm still skeptical if it is enough.

[Lucrece]

I mean, the sustained 2t remains roughly the same as far as I've seen and our priority dmg is much higher.

What you're describing is allowing you to swap around havoc freely which is really only a problem if you weren't thinking about how to apply havoc in the first place. If you were playing well, or if you've played destruction the last 2 xpacs, its a non-issue.

The reason you bring destro locks to raid is for priority damage, so that's a damned good thing to be. I don't care about being top on the overall meter, I care about killing bosses. Being king of priority damage is one of thee most useful things you can be to do that.

Sure, that's a feature havoc always had prior to wreak havoc, but wreak havoc created that luxury. And it will still be the dominant trait for anything with 2T as the baseline 40 sec cd without it is a nonstarter so the baseline 2T cleave capacity is even worse.

I would have preferred they made the baseline cd 30 seconds and wreak havoc a 10 sec cd reduction, or scrapped the idea of it on that row altogether since that row boils down to CDF competing with soul conduit for ST and aoe while wreak havoc will always be taken for 2T. They need to decide what that row's going to be about because 2 talents are aoe/ST and one has a complete niche of its own.

[Gaidax]

Sure, that's a feature havoc always had prior to wreak havoc, but wreak havoc created that luxury. And it will still be the dominant trait for anything with 2T as the baseline 40 sec cd without it is a nonstarter so the baseline 2T cleave capacity is even worse.

I would have preferred they made the baseline cd 30 seconds and wreak havoc a 10 sec cd reduction, or scrapped the idea of it on that row altogether since that row boils down to CDF competing with soul conduit for ST and aoe while wreak havoc will always be taken for 2T. They need to decide what that row's going to be about because 2 talents are aoe/ST and one has a complete niche of its own.

No, the baseline 45 seconds is perfect, the devs are right - Havoc being so often available made it both brainless and (what they did not say) certainly affect our core balancing in a very bad way.

I'd rather have it as a long and meaningful CD, instead of something that defines and carries a spec.

As for WH, it should indeed not be a thing, IMO. Would rather see it replaced with some other generalist talent that has a function in a few situations, same as Conduit or CDF.