Young LePen supporters: 'We are the future and this is what we want'

[baskev]

What tyranny? Last I checked, France was a democracy. It is also funny how you call everyone ignorant, while at the same time making sweeping comments about why people vote for Le Front and about what all French people want. Then again, you already said that you consider everyone who does not share your precise ideals a Collabo(rateur?). Sadly though, even if Le Pen should win, she won't be able to just throw all of those Collabos out of the country, so you should learn to live with them.



You should try being a liberal German. That way you can somehow be considered both at the same time, the precise classification depending on the issue, if posters on this board are to be believed.

Lol....yeah...i have that 2...both in rl and on the internet. Even had to explain to some rightwingers...that liberal is not SJW...

[Freighter]

Who said Muslims? Is that synonymous with immigration to you?

No, but that's usually what europeans harp on about when they talk about immigration.

The problem Sweden has , is that it has taken to many, and let the people decide for themselves where they can live. Resulting in "ghettos" and people living in bubble societies, on welfare. This is not sustainable for a welfare state, which is dependent on a high percentage of the population in the active workforce.
Its gonna eat away at the country, and the people who lived there are gonna pay the price.

I really have no way verify this but okay.

[Kalis]

I don't know why you are asking me about that, I know next to nothing about what your countries are like. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with immigration and integration like you suggest, could have to do with level of hostility towards people who have immigrated. It could have to do with their social status. There are various factors but you decide to ignore all of them for something that fits your narrative?

We don't have much problems in singapore with muslims despite them being a far larger percentage of the population than most western countries yet people from the west are screaming all about how muslims are invading, how they're going to be the end of the west. I'm honestly more worried about islamophobia than the muslims.

It depends on the cultural background of the Muslims, as to whether they are a positive or a negative.

Most people do not give a shit about the Muslims if they are like the Hindus or Buddhists, hence why there is no concept of Hinduphobia or Buddophobia, to the point that I am not entirely sure if I have invented those two words.

Islamophobia did not arise out of thin air, it is a reaction to a problem from a large section of the Muslim community in the West.

[Freighter]

It depends on the cultural background of the Muslims, as to whether they are a positive or a negative.

Most people do not give a shit about the Muslims if they are like the Hindus or Buddhists, hence why there is no concept of Hinduphobia or Buddophobia, to the point that I am not entirely sure if I have invented those two words.

Islamophobia did not arise out of thin air, it is a reaction to a problem from a large section of the Muslim community in the West.

Yes, I am aware of this. They have problems within their own community, which isn't really something that you can fix since you have no power in those communities unless you want to strong arm them, which would just spawn more hostility. On a personal level I don't particularly like muslims much but seeing how many islamophobes act they cause me more worry than muslims.

[Kalis]

Yes, I am aware of this. They have problems within their own community, which isn't really something that you can fix since you have no power in those communities unless you want to strong arm them, which would just spawn more hostility.

We would not need to fix them if we kicked them out. If they want to live in the West, then they need to conform to Western standards, or they can leave. There are loads of Muslims that have no problems fitting in, we should not be obligated to tolerate the ones who cannot do so, as they make the countries worse for everybody.

[Freighter]

We would not need to fix them if we kicked them out. If they want to live in the West, then they need to conform to Western standards, or they can leave. There are loads of Muslims that have no problems fitting in, we should not be obligated to tolerate the ones who cannot do so, as they make the countries worse for everybody.

I agree, if you move to a country you should be adapting to that countries values, if you can't or don't want to then you really have no place there if it causes conflict. Beats me why people would move to a country and not do their best to fit in.

[Kalis]

I agree, if you move to a country you should be adapting to that countries values, if you can't or don't want to then you really have no place there if it causes conflict. Beats me why people would move to a country and not do their best to fit in.

The problem is if you complain about them not fitting in you get branded as a racist, even though you are not complaining about the ones who do fit in - it is apparently a very selective form of racism that does not involve race - so it just shuts down the conversation that needs to be had and breeds resentment towards all Muslims.

[Deleted]

French here ( and not supporting Lepen)

Lets ask those who fought against Nazies about their opinnion on Le Pen.

Closest thing to Nazism or fashism in France is the muslim community trying to force their culture an dyning ours
60 years of Pro islam politics led us to this election

[Kiri]

French here ( and not supporting Lepen)



Closest thing to Nazism or fashism in France is the muslim community trying to force their culture an dyning ours
60 years of Pro islam politics led us to this election

I hear that all the time, but what parts of your culture do they not accept, and what parts do they try to force upon you? Because I never experienced anything like that from Muslims here, so I am kind of curious.

The problem is if you complain about them not fitting in you get branded as a racist, even though you are not complaining about the ones who do fit in - it is apparently a very selective form of racism that does not involve race - so it just shuts down the conversation that needs to be had and breeds resentment towards all Muslims.

Yeah, that is a problem here too, though us Germans are generally very iffy about appearing racist, for obvious reasons. However, as you can see in this very thread, almost everyone complaining about those not fitting in seems to see them as the majority or at least representative of the whole, thusly justifying supporting politicians that are also against said group as a whole. Most moderate politicians would likely be for merit-based systems and being harder on those who refuse to fit in, if it was not for those that hate the group in general feeling vindicated by such things.

[telygroar]

aaaaand we go for the fake news shit, she officially said in the political show than macron has a hidden offshore holding.

She have proofs of that.

The proofs came from 4chan.




...

[Deleted]

Ah yes, nothing is as refreshing as racism and rabid xenophobia

[zmp]

aaaaand we go for the fake news shit, she officially said in the political show than macron has a hidden offshore holding.

She have proofs of that.

The proofs came from 4chan.

She should be a US news network anchor/reporter.

[Themius]

Europeans sure seem to hate acculturation, all they want to do is seem to destroy the culture of anyone who immigrates. Pluralism is like the nightmare of Europeans.

[Pannonian]

Eh, they barely defeated 15k arabs, 2nd siege of Constantinople was besieged by at least 10 times as many arabs, had they won there, they would have rolled over Martel.

Martel contributed but he was Not the man who stopped the major Arab invasions. South-east Europe had to deal with the bulk of Arab forces, something west didn't have to deal with but small forces n even that was nearly too much for them.

Martel showed how pathetic weak west was at that time in history...

This is still an ongoing debate, and as long as no one invents a time-machine that can travel to parallel universes it may stay this way.

Basically there are 3 different perspectives on the Battle of Tours:

A) the oldest one: Martel saved Christianity and drove back islam, otherwise europe would've fallen

B) If Martel had lost, Europe wouldn't have become islamic but would've taken a very different path.

C) It was just raiding skirmishes and if he lost it wouldn't have mattered at all.

As i wrote my thesis on this topic, i'm stuck somewhat between B and C. First of all i dismiss A, because the arabs didn't have the manpower and the logistics to actually conquer Europe, especially not with a single battle. They got Spain that way, true, but France at this point is different as Karl Martel was the de-facto but not de-jure Boss of the whole shebang. So killing Karl Martel in battle wouldn't automatically destroy the authority in the country. To really conquer France after killing Martel in battle there are still 2 obstacles: The king and cities. As long as the king lives (and merowingian kings were seen as half-mythical beings) the populace would be in constant turmoil. The other obstalce: Contrary to popular belief you don't win wars with battles, but with sieges, and given the troop sizes of the Arabs back then, its highly unlikely. Also as pointed out: these were raiding parties, they weren't equipped for sieges.

Going back to B) if Martel looses or even worse, gets killed that could very well be the end of the karolingian line (before it even started) which of course would have massive implications on history in europe. No HRE, Eastern Germany wouldn't be forced to become christian, and therefore maybe Harald Bluetooth wouldn't feel urged to convert himself and his country to christianity. It would also weaken the franks for a long time. Maybe at a later point a real invasion from Spain becomes feasible, but unlikely as they lost the drive of the expansion after the umayyad caliphs were dethroned, and spain was soon more preoccupied with itself than with christians.

So yeah, Tours was one battle in a long series of raids, but it could've a big impact on europe if Martel died or lost badly, but an islamic invasion of europe, seems unlikely (even chroniclers of the time didn't overestimate Tours, and normally they do it all of the time)