Brexit: UK must abandon 'fairy tale' ideas, says Germany's Europe minister

[Deleted]

And about free movement and limitations:

UK wont get any special deal. But it is very likely EU will rework the rules in the coming years. Switzerland ignored the referendum and speculates that rules will change anyways soon.

[Slant]

You mean 15 minutes of a public show while the actual negotiations took place over months behind closed doors.

Um, even so... compare that to the British Government discussing what to do across their tabloids. One of the two acts like a professional group of serious individuals, the other like a bunch of kids running around screaming wildly. But I guess reactionary destructivism doesn't agree with me and the EU needs to DIE, right?

Yes, I made that word up. Sue me. :P

[Deleted]

http://www.independent.ie/world-news...-35672675.html

It's almost certain that he is right. The one positive is that Brexit can serve as a warning to the world of what happens when you give in to fear and distrust.

You aren't even European, keep to Canada topics plz.

[Slant]

Yes let the ppl that cocked up basically everything they touch (greece,immigration,ukraine,ttip,eu hq,eu legislature) negotiate behind doors. Oh, and noone voted for the executive branch ofcourse- because in the seedy underbellies of hidden politics indirect voting is enough.

I am truly wondering what would have to happen before you fanboys would realise this is a failed project, and that it is time to break it down and start over?

Ah... er, what?

Greece: Fucked itself up, it's the EU that keeps them alive.
Immigration: The US fucked that up, the EU is just dealing with the aftermath of a failed military campaign and a civil war nobody here asked for.
Ukraine: Seriously? So the EU isn't allowed to talk to anyone again ever, because they might become crazy afterwards? That's not how an economic trade player works.
TTIP: How's that cocked up? Nothing's ratified, it's pretty much frozen at this stage.
EU HQ: Which one? And... what's cocked up about it? Because the EU is functioning fine as it is, even if there's always room for improvement.
EU legislation: See above.

I get it, if you hate the EU emotionally and your gut tells you to spew vomit everytime you hear the EU, it helps to make up shit and repeat bullshit you read anywhere as long as it agrees with you. But next time you put down such a list, be careful what it's about. Chances are on a public forum there will be someone to lecture you on what actually goes on in the world as opposed to the fantasy you made up in your head.

[dribbles]

Actually there is a plan until 2020 the UK agreed to years ago. Part of it always is investments in the UK.

The talks will be about finding a solution. A compromise. Whatever it looks like. The EU wont negotiate any deal until it is done.

Actually it is 100bn € now.

I think it is very unlikely that any negotiations about trade deals will start for years.

100 bn euro to cover our commitments to until 2020 you say? Wonder how much that is a week.... let's see. So 2 years 8 months to 2020 or roughly 140 weeks.

100,000,000,000 / 140 = 714,285,714 euro a week? Wow and remoaners whinged about the £350 million a week NHS battlebus.

[Slant]

If there is 1 fairy tale, it's the one of Merkel and Juncker trying to create the fourth reich through peacefull annexation. Europe will eventually crash under their own weight. You cannot possibly expect the couple of rich countries to keep paying up to compensate the shortcomings of the rest while you keep expanding with more and more poor countries.

If there is one fairy tale, it's the one where the world isn't eventually going to be the United Federation of Planets HQ made possible through the adventures of the first USS Enterprise, NX-01. Europe will eventually have been blown to bits in WW3. Nobody could expect humanity to give a toss, but they took it as a motivation to overcome their fear and explored the stars on the search for poorer planets to exploit.

See, the amount of "fact" in my paragraph is just about as high as it's in yours. Think about that.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, but how is that the EU wanting their money back?

Nobody wants "their money back". They're not talking about a schoolyard loan. Don't be childish.

[caervek]

Because last time it took the whole world to take down 1 simple country.
Germany is not a country to fuck with. And that comes from a non german

I don't mean to sound rude, but you may want to consider reading about WW2, German was not alone they were part of an alliance (Axis powers), hell in the period after they took down France but before they attacked the USSR the odds were significantly in their favour (and remained in their favour until they declared war on the USA).

[Thunderball]

Ah... er, what?

Greece: Fucked itself up, it's the EU that keeps them alive.
Immigration: The US fucked that up, the EU is just dealing with the aftermath of a failed military campaign and a civil war nobody here asked for.
Ukraine: Seriously? So the EU isn't allowed to talk to anyone again ever, because they might become crazy afterwards? That's not how an economic trade player works.
TTIP: How's that cocked up? Nothing's ratified, it's pretty much frozen at this stage.
EU HQ: Which one? And... what's cocked up about it? Because the EU is functioning fine as it is, even if there's always room for improvement.
EU legislation: See above.

I get it, if you hate the EU emotionally and your gut tells you to spew vomit everytime you hear the EU, it helps to make up shit and repeat bullshit you read anywhere as long as it agrees with you. But next time you put down such a list, be careful what it's about. Chances are on a public forum there will be someone to lecture you on what actually goes on in the world as opposed to the fantasy you made up in your head.

EU fucked up Greece, same with every other "small" EU member: industry and agriculture was destroyed (you cant compete with German industry and French/Belgium/Dutch farmers due to having open borders, same currency and being unable to setup trade regulations against it) > huge unemployement. In case of Greece their resorts dont attract as much people anymore because they became expensive due to Euro strength and Egypt/Turkey being close by, while having lower prices (their government can make monetary decisions, unlike Greece).

On immigration: it's not like those people arrive directly to EU and you have no way of stopping it. They arrive mostly through Turkey, and EU is PAYING Turkey to funnel immigrants into Europe. It's a completely concious choice to let them in.

TTIP would've been ratified, regardless of the fact that TTIP (in the form it was proposed) is harmful for EU.

Ukraine deal was never about trade, and it's not even a point. EU supported a coup in the country, what else is there to say?

[Slant]

I think he is talking about the new building, I have to agree it is an architectural monstrosity that doesn't evoke the EU at all

Well, we don't care about how it looks like. I'm not the neighbour.

[Slant]

EU fucked up Greece, same with every other "small" EU member: industry and agriculture was destroyed (you cant compete with German industry and French/Belgium/Dutch farmers due to having open borders, same currency and being unable to setup trade regulations against it) > huge unemployement. In case of Greece their resorts dont attract as much people anymore because they became expensive due to Euro strength and Egypt/Turkey being close by, while having lower prices (their government can make monetary decisions, unlike Greece).

On immigration: it's not like those people arrive directly to EU and you have no way of stopping it. They arrive mostly through Turkey, and EU is PAYING Turkey to funnel immigrants into Europe. It's a completely concious choice to let them in.

TTIP would've been ratified, regardless of the fact that TTIP (in the form it was proposed) is harmful for EU.

Ukraine deal was never about trade, and it's not even a point. EU supported a coup in the country, what else is there to say?

Quite the twisting of facts there... EU paying Turkey to funnel immigrants to the EU? Who shat that piece of shit information into your poor head?

[Slant]

I would assume that with the EU requesting the UK hold to it's budgetary commitments to the EU budget the EU is also binding itself to maintain funding for any projects paid through EU funds in the UK as accounted for in said budget. If the UK refused to fulfill it's obligations to said budget then the EU would have to cease funding on said projects and then the EU would restructure said budget (either cutting a few projects or financing them with an emergency addition to the budget and the remaining EU states after redirecting the funds for UK based budgets to cover for UK contributions) and the UK would have to decide to either support those projects or scrap them. I for one think that this should be a separate issue to the trade agreements since I see no reason to consider it a prerequisite (to do so would be to assume there is no good will in negotiations between the two entities and that the EU is suspicious of a poor resolution on the budgetary concern).

Yes, but "money back"? These aren't loans the EU granted. These are commitments the British promised. This is just some EU bureaucrats throwing a number into the room of what the UK wanted to pay until the end date. And I'm assuming there's not much of negotiations happening, since these numbers are more or less decided already. Have been for years. This isn't a surprise, it's just a reminder to the UK of what the real world expects of them. It's not "extra cost" the EU generated just to spite them.

- - - Updated - - -

I care, I think governments have always been significant contributors to the art of architecture and I am not at all impressed by this "contribution"

Are you talking about the thing with the ball inside? Because I don't think it's that bad. I'm open to the idea of not using a standardized grand architectural thing for official buildings.

[Deleted]

Are you talking about the thing with the ball inside? Because I don't think it's that bad. I'm open to the idea of not using a standardized grand architectural thing for official buildings.

It's bland. Not terrible. Just meh.

[Deleted]

Greece: Fucked itself up, it's the EU that keeps them alive.

Greece did fuck itself up, but the EU keeps them alive to keep the euro alive. Especially when this crisis first hit, if greece would've fallen then so would've many banks that invested heavily in greek bonds (because of their high price.. cuz they fucked up). I don't see how funelling billions of european funds into greece/southern states can be seen as a succes story. I mean, whose fault is it greece could fuck up so gargantually over a longer period of time? Surely its the eu paying for this mistake, so whose mistake is it really?

Immigration: The US fucked that up, the EU is just dealing with the aftermath of a failed military campaign and a civil war nobody here asked for.

Are they though? Merkel just said, hey you can all come here, then immigrants just could because the shengen zone has no border control. Nothing facilitated the 'everyone can come here' resulting in people dying on rubber dinghies. And then, when everyone with an actual sense of realism (I trust you'll be honest here onw hat side you are) saw that there were so many immigrants that it is unsustainable, so they decided to make a deal with a sultan islamic despot in turkey that has used the same deal ever since to whack europeans over the head at every chance they get while portraying himself as the 'savior' of muslims. Even though the whole deal is funded by 4.000.000.000 euro A YEAR. Which in turn coincidentally coincided with turkey significantly increasing its military spending, because why would anyone see where such an investment goes.

Ukraine: Seriously? So the EU isn't allowed to talk to anyone again ever, because they might become crazy afterwards? That's not how an economic trade player works.

Eu can and should talk to everyone, but if you're ignorant enough to hold speeches on russias doorstep then you probably should consider the effect that'll have on russia. I mean what do you think would happen when a european faction leader shouts 'we have won' in ukraine? The crimea situation is a direct result of the european union's actions.

TTIP: How's that cocked up? Nothing's ratified, it's pretty much frozen at this stage.

Let me look up all we know about these negotiations:

-Nothing at all

Again you might be fine with giving these incompetent bozos carte blanche but nothing they do deserves such faith. Having them negotiate a trade deal with impunity and behind closed doors should be horrifying to anyone.

EU HQ: Which one? And... what's cocked up about it? Because the EU is functioning fine as it is, even if there's always room for improvement.

'Which one' says enough doesn't it. Two countries couldn't even decide who should house the hq so they just waste a crazy amount of tax funds travelling between the two places.

EU legislation: See above.

Heres a list of interesting laws. Bananas cannot be too curved, water doesn't hydrate, eggs cannot be sold by the dozen, diabetics arent allowed to drive.

I get it, if you hate the EU emotionally and your gut tells you to spew vomit everytime you hear the EU, it helps to make up shit and repeat bullshit you read anywhere as long as it agrees with you. But next time you put down such a list, be careful what it's about. Chances are on a public forum there will be someone to lecture you on what actually goes on in the world as opposed to the fantasy you made up in your head.

Hope you'll take some of that advise there buddy. I do too get how its hard to take off those my little pony star rainbow glasses whenever anything EU is mentioned. But the truth is it is a sluggish,administrative inneficient bureacratic farce filled with money grabbing optimists with no morals or actual purpose.

I hope those rainbow glasses arent stapled to your head.

[Slant]

Heres a list of interesting laws. Bananas cannot be too curved, water doesn't hydrate, eggs cannot be sold by the dozen, diabetics arent allowed to drive.

I'll just pick this example, because it's so ridiculous and pretty much the same goes for the rest of your post:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...0060217:EN:PDF

Where exactly does it say that all bananas must not be bendy and straight instead? Go ahead, I'll wait until you find it. See, you're parroting what is called "Euromyths". Stories, legends and funny jokes about the EU that were put into place by the press. Usually the British press, as they are easily impressed and get easily confused by anything outside Britain. Feel free to continue parroting such bullshit, but you will see that the legislation about bananas that I just posted you, is pretty much guaranteeing a certain quality that is ultimately, good for the consumer, which is what the EU very much trying to be. And they very much do not require that all bananas be straight. How the fuck would a straight banana even look like? Even the straightest bananas you can buy have a curve in them. :P

Btw, tonight when I buy my groceries, I'll pick up a couple bendy bananas, just to spite you. And when I come back to see your inevitable rant about how the EU is DESTROYING CIVILISATION or some other bullshit, I'll enjoy eating said bananas while I post a mocking reply to whatever it is you're about to post in... oh, let's give it 2 seconds, because to be honest, you just can't be bothered to check facts or read sources, your trustworthy sources and your gut tells you the EU is evil, so therefore I must be wrong and fact checking is irrelevant...

A few amendments, because those jokes are so funny... the "dozen egg" story seems to be from June 2010. Not surprisingly, it was the journalistic professionals at the Daily Mail who came up with that, because they have problems reading legislation or something...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sold-kilo.html

Which prompted MEP Renate Sommer to having to respond to it via a press conference, with the

http://www.bbc.com/news/10461548

So, while the UK bitches about the EU costing too much money, they freak out about bullshit and require MEPs that we pay to do legislation to do PR instead.

Dehydrating water myth:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/.../2011/nov/18/1

I don't even understand what the diabetes thing is about, but since it comes from the Mail, I'm guessing it's bullshit, too. Either way, I saw an article from 2016 talking about whatever legislation they've rambled about to be revoked, so all's good in Europe. Or not, because you'll probably come up with more bullshit anyway. It's like whack-a-mole with Eurosceptics, really.

[Slant]

Btw the bendy myth comes from the fact that EU regulation considers a banana with a broken (bent) stalk as a defective product (because if you break the stalk, the banana will ripen quite more rapidly).

Makes sense to me, but then, I like to spend my money on good quality products...

[Pann]

Btw the bendy myth comes from the fact that EU regulation considers a banana with a broken (bent) stalk as a defective product (because if you break the stalk, the banana will ripen quite more rapidly).

No, it doesn't. It is an exaggeration of Regulation No. 2257/94 which states that bananas of the highest quality classification not have "abnormal curvature".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commis...C)_No._2257/94

[Deleted]

I'll just pick this example, because it's so ridiculous and pretty much the same goes for the rest of your post:

I'm not the one being prejudiced "eurosceptic this, dummie that". Sure there's some grey area with these legislatures but the real question to me is why ANY of these ridunculous legislature has a basis of truth. You want me to order a parade because they only advised member states to disallow label printing that water fights dehydration because it doesnt at high volumes?

There's a plethora of different subjects but I found these accesible and accomodating to our language barrier, calling the british media biased (there was a german link in there.) says more about your 'fake news' head in the sand attitude than me. Moreso because businessinsider is a German-owned American news website. But why 'be bothered to check facts or read sources, your trustworthy sources and your gut tells you the EU is awesome, so therefore everything You say must be true and fact checking is irrelevant...'

The overall ostrich reaction is strong with you 'pretty much the same goes for the rest of your post' Ignoring 95% of what I wrote but accusing me of

you just can't be bothered to check facts or read sources, your trustworthy sources and your gut tells you the EU is evil, so therefore I must be wrong and fact checking is irrelevant...

before celebrating the PARTIAL (minimal really) untruth of some of the most ridiculous legislature I have ever read is rather sad on its own, but I guess when you're rowing with the EU boat you'll take what few branches you can.

Even if all the EU legislature was perfectly sensible (which it really isnt, not because I heard it in an echochamber or what other hyperbole you've concocted but for a myriad slew of additional reasons I simply don't have the time or the will to go over) even then, the other 'so ridiculous' reasons (and some omitted ones such as disdain for democracy, youth indoctrination and national interests) are enough of a reason to bomb this whole thing before it gets worse.

enjoy your banana, meanwhile in the actual world with non banana related problems Ill be keeping my fingers crossed the russian,african or middle eastern horde doesnt destroy our freedom and way of life. Because if we continue the way we are this is not an unlikely scenario.

[Deleted]

Here is some native tongue for you. Thank St George and everything white and red when it comes to Brexit. Screw the Germans money grabbing/Gangster tactics trying to get our "lunch money" in the playground. Trade deal or not here is the dilemma Germany and the rest of EU have -We dont have to buy German motor cars, we dont have to drink French wine or eat Belgian chocolate in fact there are plenty of other countries that will supply the UK with this.

Also media doesn't report but Qatar has already said he will invest a further 6Billion into our economy because we are no longer part of the EU that's just 1 trade deal of thousands that the biggest Empire in the world will have.

Food for thought:- The British nation is unique in this respect: they are the only people who like to be told how bad things are, Who like to be told the worst. - Winston Churchill

[Xarkan]

I don't even understand what the diabetes thing is about, but since it comes from the Mail, I'm guessing it's bullshit, too. Either way, I saw an article from 2016 talking about whatever legislation they've rambled about to be revoked, so all's good in Europe. Or not, because you'll probably come up with more bullshit anyway. It's like whack-a-mole with Eurosceptics, really.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2016/...-94800107.html

While this is about the commision asking the rules be changed it does indicate what the rules are

I think it is what he refers to

[padie]

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2016/...-94800107.html

While this is about the commision asking the rules be changed it does indicate what the rules are

I think it is what he refers to

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_...final_1_en.pdf

From the 9 members of the workgroup 2 are from the UK, and 1 external consultant as well.

It's about some kind of diabetics that couldn't drive because the risk is to high (for varies reasons)