[TV] Marvel’s The Defenders [Spoilers]

[Sorshen]

Imo, except the the sketchy Iron Fist and Luke here and there, the worst part was that the dreaded Hand leaders (except Gao) looked like amateurs. The build-up from DD falls pretty flat. It just reinforces my impression that the DD series is much higher quality (remember season 1?) than the rest of the shows.

[Svifnymr]

I liked JJ and DD's parts, actually investigating and talking to folks. LC and IF were just bland.

DD might have been silly for protecting his identity at times, but by the same token they were hiding their comrades because of the danger the others put them in by being known. That said of course, how the Hand doesn't know Matt Murdock is DD, meh.

Either you're willing to stop the immortal bad guys by chopping some heads off, or you're willing to let the main big bad walk out of the ruins of some poor guys really nice chinese restaurant so she can go ahead and destroy the world.

As everyone said, The Hand was just bad. DD kept them as a mystical force of ninjas, but then IF came along and made them a multicultural sect of fanatics with no central cause. Gao was fun, but none of her power was justified/ explained. They use dragon bones for immortality? So how does she use the Force? Why can't the others? Why did an Iron Fist somewhere in the distant past hide a bunch of dragon bones below NY? The Hand of DD/ Stick and the Hand of IF/Defenders don't match up, and the intro of the Chaste seems off compared to previous DD stuff too. Doesn't sync very well with IF's kunlun either.

Lastly, their spinning circular cam-work may have sounded good, but didn't do much for me. They also had a lot of shaky jump cut crap in pitch blackness.

[Ivanstone]

I think the only reason they wanted to go back to Kun lun was for dragon bones. They got that in New York instead.

They wanted to go back because they miss it.

[Wyattbw09]

1) The show basically played out like it was the real back eight episodes of the IF season.

2) Poor JJ was constantly struggling to keep up. She got her ass kicked by everyone. In a show with LC she is really just a poor man's snarky LC.

3) I though the meta jokes of the IF were done really well. They writers basically took all the criticisms of IF's personality and just went with it. I don't think he was supposed to come off in the IF series as raging dumb ass with a magic fist. They really highlighted his immaturity in the Defenders and I think gave him a potentially interesting story arch for season two.

4) The Hand never really found its footing. It was this evil gang of ninjas who wanted to live forever. Meh, give me the Foot Clan any day. Having had Fisk in the show I think might have helped a lot. Other then Gao nobody knew who these super villains were and sure as hell nobody gives a damn about Kao Lung. Hell, that drunk fighter from IF would have been a more interesting finger for The Hand. I hope Electra can maybe give the Hand something interesting in the next season of DD.

5) The pacing was overall much better. I get how it had to be slow at first because if they were the super friends in episode one the same people complaining about how slow the pace was for the first couple of episodes would be calling bullpucky on how quickly they all came together. However, once the team go together there was none of this middle season slog that EVERY SINGLE of the Marvel Netflix shows have suffered.

6) Given how the season ended it would be difficult. However, I would love to see a arch in DD season 3 where he takes Danny under his wing and teaches him how to harness his rage, and they maybe he could only brag about being the Immortal Iron Fist like once a season or something. The parallels between the two, which I think the show was trying to explicitly do, were very interesting. But for the grace of God as DD would likely say, the Devil of Hells kitchen could be a out of control rage monster. With guidance from Matt Danny could harness his personality to match his ability. I just think it would be interesting.

Overall, I liked the show. Not every part was great but I think it was pretty good. Like most Netflix shows I think the overall quality of the show is dragged down by its ability to be binged in one sitting.

[Ivanstone]

Your understanding was way off. Luke Cage has always had super strength, at a higher level than JJ. And JJ has increased durability herself, but again, not at the level of Luke. JJ can fly though, while Luke can only jump great distances(not at Hulk levels, but he can leap several stories high).

Show JJ is stronger than show LC. Show LC is much more durable than show JJ. JJ isn't strong enough to do any real damage to LC which is why the fight seems unfair in his favour.

[Wikko]

I thought JJ was way too weak in this show, or she held back for some reason all the time. She got her ass kicked every single time and didnt really even throw the bad guys around like someone with her power could.

[ItachiZaku]

Gao was fun, but none of her power was justified/ explained. They use dragon bones for immortality? So how does she use the Force? Why can't the others?

Just visually, she's older than everyone. Not sure how old everyone is or how many deaths each has had. She's probably just been around the longest and has learned the most. Like IF didn't know he could heal. And if Chi to them is just energy aka The Force, then she'd have better control of it than the others. The dragon is the dragon the IF has to spiritually defeat, but probably was an actual dragon at some point, so it's bones still possess that essence. Why under NYC, no idea, that's dumb. Should be in a cave under Wu-Tang Mountain or something.

[Ivanstone]

I thought JJ was way too weak in this show, or she held back for some reason all the time. She got her ass kicked every single time and didnt really even throw the bad guys around like someone with her power could.

I think part of that is she's still the least trained of the four as a character and perhaps in real life as well. She had some good punchy moments but she's trying to succeed by brute strength alone against an army of highly skilled ninja's.

Just visually, she's older than everyone. Not sure how old everyone is or how many deaths each has had. She's probably just been around the longest and has learned the most. Like IF didn't know he could heal. And if Chi to them is just energy aka The Force, then she'd have better control of it than the others. The dragon is the dragon the IF has to spiritually defeat, but probably was an actual dragon at some point, so it's bones still possess that essence. Why under NYC, no idea, that's dumb. Should be in a cave under Wu-Tang Mountain or something.

I think they turned Gao into the chi user because Wai Ching Ho is probably way to old for the real physical stuff so they gave her a short cut for dramatic effect.

[Stormcall]

Show JJ is stronger than show LC. Show LC is much more durable than show JJ. JJ isn't strong enough to do any real damage to LC which is why the fight seems unfair in his favour.

But he specifically mentioned he wasn't sure how it was in the comics, so I told him how it was. And even then, show JJ and LC are pretty close in strength level.

[ItachiZaku]

I think they turned Gao into the chi user because Wai Ching Ho is probably way to old for the real physical stuff so they gave her a short cut for dramatic effect.

Yeah, 73 year old chicks don't do too many wire tricks anymore! Was fun watching her handle everyone though.

[Wyattbw09]

I thought JJ was way too weak in this show, or she held back for some reason all the time. She got her ass kicked every single time and didnt really even throw the bad guys around like someone with her power could.

I remember a scene in the last episode where the Defenders are fighting a bunch of Hand ninja in the mine. Suddenly what looks like a couple of street thugs show up and attack JJ. I was well that's nice they added some non ninjas for JJ to fight. At one she even had to remind the audience that she is stronger then she looks. You can tell because JJ is a fan favorite they struggled really hard to find a place for her.

[Ivanstone]

But he specifically mentioned he wasn't sure how it was in the comics, so I told him how it was. And even then, show JJ and LC are pretty close in strength level.

Yeah, well they way powered up Cage in the comics sometime ago. Show Cage is more akin to how he was when he started out in the comics. Superhumanly strong but weaker than Spider-man for example. He is bullet proof where Spidey isn't. Jessica was originally designed to be a relatively weak superhuman, a D-tier Avenger as Bendis put it.

[Svifnymr]

Just visually, she's older than everyone. Not sure how old everyone is or how many deaths each has had. She's probably just been around the longest and has learned the most. Like IF didn't know he could heal. And if Chi to them is just energy aka The Force, then she'd have better control of it than the others. The dragon is the dragon the IF has to spiritually defeat, but probably was an actual dragon at some point, so it's bones still possess that essence. Why under NYC, no idea, that's dumb. Should be in a cave under Wu-Tang Mountain or something.

They all left kun lun togethor, to maintain immortality, so maybe she was 70 when the others were 30-50, but that was thousands of years ago. It is entirely possible they spent that time drinking and partying while she studied unknowable forms of Chi manipulation, but...

And I agree that the need for it was obvious, but my point was just that they should have justified it in story, like, at all. I don't have any problem with her going Yoda, but it just highlights the stupidity of the other fingers. Sure one guy is suddenly bulletproof? And the african guy was scary because he could slow/stop LC's heart! I mean, he didn't or anything, but in theory it was said he could so I mean... it could have happened? We didn't actually see that fight, so we can't be sure, maybe LC just got better really quick.

They also routinely toss LC around, but in typical comic/tv fashion blow that do damage to bullet proof LC also barely hurt regular humans.

Then we have the Black Wind, which was some kind of uber-magical-death thing in DD2, but like Dr Strange that just means she can melee better.

I think the show is constrained by it's budget, the same way IF couldn't afford a dragon more impressive than a garden light from Home Depot.



SO I was thinking about how the Architect was probably the most well planned guy, but then it just brings up too much stupidity to make things work. How the architect even knew JJ was looking for him, to call and reveal himself. Where did he get C4? Why they had an architect from outside the Hand, or even why they built a building that tall to cover a pit. Why leave it a pit anyway? Why not fill it in with floors for an underground base? One elevator? Does that make sense to anyone? How long between DD2 and Defenders was it for them to build this building and have it ready to move in?

The CoverUp. Who is covering up? How did they cover up the lack-of-earthquake in the start? Do people really believe that the building that went up in a year was then demolished without a permit or safety measures of any sort? I'm not going to google how to use c4 to destroy a building, but pretty sure just tossing bundles on the floor near pillars doesn't direct the blast very well. It's a fictional NY, but after 9/11, a lot of NYers are paranoid when something big happens. Having also had an alien invasion, I'd think Marvels NY would be even less likely to believe the story. Does the internet not exist? Do all the cops, paramedics and people with police scanners all agree to keep the secret?


Netflix has some fun series, but the writing is just mediocre most of the time. Maybe they're rushing too much, maybe the budget isn't there. Almost every series is a mix of very high points and very low points and the Defenders is no exception for me. IF was probably my favorite just because it was consistently middle of the road.

- - - Updated - - -

I remember a scene in the last episode where the Defenders are fighting a bunch of Hand ninja in the mine. Suddenly what looks like a couple of street thugs show up and attack JJ. I was well that's nice they added some non ninjas for JJ to fight. At one she even had to remind the audience that she is stronger then she looks. You can tell because JJ is a fan favorite they struggled really hard to find a place for her.

It was cool they remembered she was a detective. It would have been better if she'd used her strength in combat rather than just breaking items, but oh well. Same with Matt Murdock being useful as well as Daredevil. Iron Fist was pretty much dumb the entire way, and Stick should have just put a bullet in him right away. Luke Cage is a bullet proof idiot as well. Misty asks him about helping the family, and his answer is to find someone he used to know and beat answers out of them... Once again, they failed to highlight that LC might be invulnerable, but the folks around him aren't. Either his visit to the kid in jail caused his death, or the kid was was dead already and could have just spilled the beans. Not sure if they established why his brother died, if he failed the Hand or just died during a job or what. The entire "white hat man" operation wasn't fleshed out in any way.

[ItachiZaku]

And the african guy was scary because he could slow/stop LC's heart! I mean, he didn't or anything, but in theory it was said he could so I mean... it could have happened? We didn't actually see that fight, so we can't be sure, maybe LC just got better really quick.

It looked like Sowande was fighting like Neji from Naruto, going after pressure points and it was working in those handful of seconds we saw them going at it. Poof, Cage shows up with Sowande knocked out. Kinda crappy.

[Wyattbw09]

Apparently you can't just delete a post.

[Wyattbw09]

It was cool they remembered she was a detective.

Actually, it Matt who followed the clues to figure out that the plans were hidden in the piano. JJ was just there to get Matt interacting with the architects family.

[Frozenbeef]

just finished agents of shield and looking for my next venture.

Does this tie in anyway to the main story of eg avengers et al?

[Wyattbw09]

just finished agents of shield and looking for my next venture.

Does this tie in anyway to the main story of eg avengers et al?

Nope, not even a sideways reference. Might as well be talking about two different New York's in two different worlds.

[schwarzkopf]

Silly question - but if JJ is super strong and LC is super invulnerable - why does LC do all the heavy lifting in this series ?

[Deleted]

I am a huge super hero nerd and I was extremly dissapointed in both Iron Fist and The Defenders.

First of all, I feel like the casting choice for Iron Fist is utter garbage, not that he is a bad actor, but he can't fight for shit, and you can tell. The fighting scenes with Iron Fist is laughable when they have a show like Daredevil. Its like they put all their budget in daredevil, had some left for Jessica Jones and then they had no budget left.

One thing that imo, was out of place was in one of the later fights, wich could have been epic if they had the right music for it, was the rap music. The rap music made the whole fighting scene bland, and not epic AT ALL. This is all my opinions ofc. I just dont understand where they went wrong, its just.. so dissapointing. Especially when they have fucking daredevil wich was SO GOOOD.