Frost vs Unholy 7.2.5

[Kendros]

You basically just contradicted yourself by saying it doesn't have problems target swapping and then by saying if adds you switch to die too fast it tanks its damage massively.

I've played both specs long enough to know its weaknesses (hey I even maxed my Unholy Weapon first going in to NH, hopeful for the buffs it got before they turned around and buffed BoS massively a week before the patch). Heck I even progressed ToV as Unholy when it was considered relatively close to Frost. It IS a huge problem, especially during progression when you need to burst down say, Odyn adds and they die before you can remove all your Wounds from the target, or the Mariner on Helya is another example. Considering that was before they nerfed the shit out of the Wrists so that adding/removing Wounds was a lot quicker than it is on live, it's obviously going to be an even bigger problem now that they've nerfed the resource generation & in general slowed down the rate at which you can apply & remove Wounds on the PTR.



Their Strengths are non-existant in NH and it stays true even in Tomb, their Ramp up IS a factor, especially on the later fights in NH (Before they got turned in to a joke with the nerfs coupled with the new traits). Having Burst priority damage on the Empowered Eyes on Gul'dan was incredibly important, especially when they often die within 8-12s of them spawning, the amount of damage an Unholy DK would be able to do in that time would pale in comparison to practically every other Melee spec in the game, even a Frost dk just spamming Obliterate and nothing else would trounce them. Same point can be made for the dps check on the adds on Elisande.

So if you're talking about content which you've solely done and it hasn't been an issue for you, that's fine but I don't care, because I only care about content that I personally am progressing on, and I won't play a Wheelchair spec when it clearly has very blatant disadvantages on the most important encounters in the game. I'm not trying to devolve this in to a petty Frost vs. Unholy argument which seems to be common place on a certain Discord Server and many of the other threads on MMO-C; I'm merely pointing out the glaring issues which hinder the spec massively from someone that progresses at my level and above me.

Aparently you havent played it long enough, or youre just dumb. By dying too fast i meant before you could stack and burn wounds, which happens often in farm content and some naturally low health adds (i.e. Botanis lashers), other than that target swapping is not a huge problem. Ass rogues have the same issue since they also have huge ramp up damage, doesnt mean they suck at target swapping. The diference is that they compensate it on direct ST damage to the boss after.

[Deleted]

It should be all about which is are more fun! In 7.2 Frost is very repetitive and 99 % of Frost DKs use the same build. For me, this is not fun.

I disagree. I like Frost a lot and I really find BoS build to be very rewarding when you pull of a 1M+ breath.

[hasslehoof]

Aparently you havent played it long enough, or youre just dumb. By dying too fast i meant before you could stack and burn wounds, which happens often in farm content and some naturally low health adds (i.e. Botanis lashers), other than that target swapping is not a huge problem. Ass rogues have the same issue since they also have huge ramp up damage, doesnt mean they suck at target swapping. The diference is that they compensate it on direct ST damage to the boss after.

I don't give a shit what you mean, what you mean and what actual issues with target swapping actually are is two completely seperate things. If you're using hard switching to Botanist lashers as an example I don't even know what to say, I've flat out given examples in which Unholy has and still does struggle with, whether the content was massively outgeared or not.

Oh wait, forgot. This is MMO-C, where some random Shitlord can just hide behind their username without providing their own parses and throw insults because they can't agree with their opinion being argued with. Ex fucking dee.

[Kaver]

I disagree. I like Frost a lot and I really find BoS build to be very rewarding when you pull of a 1M+ breath.

I knew someone would miss the point of what I was saying.


I am NOT saying that the breath build is not rewarding. I agree with you on that. I loved the breath build in the beginning of Night Hold.

BUT MY POINT IS, that the breath build is the only viable build for frost which in the long run can get a little repetitive and boring. I like to have the option of choosing other talents but they have to be viable so you are not a burden of the group.

[Deleted]

I can't see any other build which would make Frost even remotely interesting even if other talents are viable. Obliteration is underwhelming, Icy talons is stack watching and Frostscythe in aoe situations was pretty much spamming one button in m+. The breath build oddly offers all of these opportunities through GS stacks, HRW and spamming your resources and more importantly, high damage output.

On the Unholy side, Virulent Plague is our staple aoe spell. It does such huge aoe damage, almost instantly if you use outbreak smartly, that using any sort of aoe tools and talents such as DnD, IC and Bursting sores, can pale in comparison when important CDs are not ready. Even so, Virulent plague is your top damaging spell as unholy on ST and even more so on cleave fights. When patch 7.2.5 hits unholy's cleave ability should be substantial with the new ring, despite the nerf to bracers. A well time DnD, new ring, bracers and IC should see substantial gains despite unholy's set up when it comes to aoe.

[Kendros]

I don't give a shit what you mean, what you mean and what actual issues with target swapping actually are is two completely seperate things. If you're using hard switching to Botanist lashers as an example I don't even know what to say, I've flat out given examples in which Unholy has and still does struggle with, whether the content was massively outgeared or not.

Oh wait, forgot. This is MMO-C, where some random Shitlord can just hide behind their username without providing their own parses and throw insults because they can't agree with their opinion being argued with. Ex fucking dee.

Yeah you just sound like a dumb kid. Carry on with your shitty opinions.

INFRACTION

[Lucrece]

Can you take you pissing matches elsewhere and leave the thread alone with posts that actually inform other people? Thanks.

[Rothulean1]

New legendary ring largely fixes target switching for Unholy, to be fair. It turns it from a minor weakness into a strength. We can dps the new target and cleave via Bursting Sores from the legendary ring + DnD/SS.

[spanishninja]

I don't give a shit what you mean, what you mean and what actual issues with target swapping actually are is two completely seperate things. If you're using hard switching to Botanist lashers as an example I don't even know what to say, I've flat out given examples in which Unholy has and still does struggle with, whether the content was massively outgeared or not.

Oh wait, forgot. This is MMO-C, where some random Shitlord can just hide behind their username without providing their own parses and throw insults because they can't agree with their opinion being argued with. Ex fucking dee.

i checked out your parses, and they're nothing special. it's kind of sad that you couldn't pull better percentiles as an ilvl 919. you and I aren't really in a position to call people shitlords.

[Stacie]

be civil towards each other please.

[Exotath]

I was playing unholy on the PTR yesterday and was using the new ring with with shoulders. I am by no means seasoned in the spec as I've been frost since practically the start but wow I really really enjoyed unholy and will most likely switch when I get T20. DA was doing excellent damage and I found I was able to match my frost dps on dummy. Have conc in all three specs and all frost legos, I think I'll be in a good spot to switch.

Def looking forward to the change of pace.

[omegalulz]

The only boss where Frost will outshine unholy is clearly Harjatan imo. Other than that, I personnaly feel like Unholy will fit better with pretty much every other figts in ToS

+ I really dislike the fact that as frost, our first PoF will not take advantage of the 4P bonus, it's such a waiste

[Cosmic Janitor]

So, how is the frost chest after the nerf for unholy and frost?

[Exotath]

+ I really dislike the fact that as frost, our first PoF will not take advantage of the 4P bonus, it's such a waiste

Yea there is a considerable difference in dmg between first breath and second on a fresh pull without the PoF buff from tier.

Also the buff stacks to 50 max and lasts for 2 minutes for those wondering.

[Deleted]

So, how is the frost chest after the nerf for unholy and frost?

It still looks strong imo. Has been nearly 10% of my dps in tests.

But with t20 and bracers, it isnt easy to predict its value. Especially KM will profit because it has no strong 2nd leg.

- - - Updated - - -

Yea there is a considerable difference in dmg between first breath and second on a fresh pull without the PoF buff from tier.

Also the buff stacks to 50 max and lasts for 2 minutes for those wondering.

Anyone tested if stacks reset at pull? What if we use it prepull with old stacks?

[Exotath]

Anyone tested if stacks reset at pull? What if we use it prepull with old stacks?

I don't believe they did but I'm doubting myself so I'll need to get on tonight and retest. I should have checked that.

[Deleted]

so it's almost sure that in ToS we will play UH?

[Rgthreex]

Paly what you want man, I've always been a UH dkfanboy it's a good feeling when people say 'what your unholy!!!??'

[RuneDK]

so it's almost sure that in ToS we will play UH?

Nobody here has stated that, we've had people saying they felt unholy will be better for reasons...but those reasons wouldn't just hurt frost dks, it would hurt every melee in the game. We don't know yet, what we do know is that unholy will be in a much better spot than previously(unless they nerf the tier bonus).

[Deleted]

Nobody here has stated that, we've had people saying they felt unholy will be better for reasons...but those reasons wouldn't just hurt frost dks, it would hurt every melee in the game. We don't know yet, what we do know is that unholy will be in a much better spot than previously(unless they nerf the tier bonus).

Yeah. There were no huge UH buffs. Frost has been nerfed a little.

I dont think anyone knows yet. Encounter design might matter, perhaps it varies on fight to fight basis.