Republican lawmaker: There’s a ‘distinction’ between gays and human beings

[Dextroden]

Even if they did find a gene -- they are still human beings. Unless you want to say kids with down syndrome aren't human beings? The whole foundation for his statement is not only just pure unbridled bigotry but also just not scientifically accurate at all. Which...well...it's the GOP so what did we expect eh?

I wasn't talking about his stupid statement. Just trying to remember if the search for the gay gene was indeed a thing.

[Dougie Cooper]

Sexuality can be fluid, but that doesn't mean that it's decided by conscious choice. I'm pretty certain that no one would make the decision to be a part of a heavily marginalized and stigmatized group.

[Dextroden]

Gays have existed since dawn of humanity all over the place, so how is it cultural? And how does that make sense in certain sort of countries where gays are hated even more, to the point of being beaten, killed and jailed, while it's cheered on?



Does that include trickle down economics too?

I want to say for the same reason that Late in life Lesbians are a thing. Genes has to play a part on top of culture.

[Deleted]

That's a new one... I mean there are better ways to try and avoid making discrimination laws, trying to classify some people as not humans, is pretty darn low on the rankings.

I mean that is some slavery age logic going on there.

[Underverse]

Gays have existed since dawn of humanity all over the place, so how is it cultural? And how does that make sense in certain sort of countries where gays are hated even more, to the point of being beaten, killed and jailed, while it's cheered on?

No, 'gays' haven't. Homosexual behaviors have. The two are distinct ideas, and the distinction is important because one is a reasonable evolutionary strategy while the other is not.

Let me draw a parallel. Fetishes are also cultural - I think most would agree with this, considering that they often involve human inventions that were not present during our evolution. Fetishes arise under culturally oppressive circumstances all the time. At a glance, this would seem to be contradictory, but I think it's important to understand that demonization of a behavior will not always result in its suppression. This is true across cultures and time periods, and anyone who has kids will immediately understand.

[Tyrianth]

Yes and no gay gene has been found, because it doesn't exist. The behavior is mostly cultural, most likely.

Homosexuality has been found in many animals other than humans. How can it be cultural if it's present in species that don't have "culture"?

[Dextroden]

No, 'gays' haven't. Homosexual behaviors have. The two are distinct ideas, and the distinction is important because one is a reasonable evolutionary strategy while the other is not.

Let me draw a parallel. Fetishes are also cultural - I think most would agree with this, considering that they often involve human inventions that were not present during our evolution. Fetishes arise under culturally oppressive circumstances all the time. At a glance, this would seem to be contradictory, but I think it's important to understand that demonization of a behavior will not always result in its suppression. This is true across cultures and time periods, and anyone who has kids will immediately understand.

Did you liken homosexuality to teenage rebellion?

[Azadina]

That's a new one... I mean there are better ways to try and avoid making discrimination laws, trying to classify some people as not humans, is pretty darn low on the rankings.

I mean that is some slavery age logic going on there.

Don't need to go that far back in time. It was the prevailing logic used in nazi Germany, towards anyone not quite "aryan" enough.

[Dextroden]

Homosexuality has been found in many animals other than humans. How can it be cultural if it's present in species that don't have "culture"?

Because.....
....shit.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

So now I'm not human! Wooh!

[Underverse]

Nope. Epigenetic and developmental. Virtually nothing to do with culture.

Oh is that so?

First, development is subject to culture once you're out of the womb.

Second, rate of concordance in sexuality between identical twins is between 5-20% (with smaller studies reporting greater variances). One would expect much higher rates of concordance considering that identical twins share their entire genomes, initial epigenetic status, as well as most developmental influences while in the womb.

Bearman and Brückner (2002) criticized early studies concentrating on small, select samples[8] and non-representative selection of their subjects.[9] They studied 289 pairs of identical twins (monozygotic or from one fertilized egg) and 495 pairs of fraternal twins (dizygotic or from two fertilized eggs) and found concordance rates for same-sex attraction of only 7.7% for male identical twins and 5.3% for females, a pattern which they say "does not suggest genetic influence independent of social context."[8]

[Video Games]

Gays have existed since dawn of humanity all over the place, so how is it cultural? And how does that make sense in certain sort of countries where gays are hated even more, to the point of being beaten, killed and jailed, while it's cheered on?



Does that include trickle down economics too?

Yes. Trickle down is super duper dump.

[Underverse]

Homosexuality has been found in many animals other than humans. How can it be cultural if it's present in species that don't have "culture"?

I said 'gay' is cultural, not homosexuality. Homosexual behavior is quite normal for humans. 'Gay' is simply an exacerbation of an initial impulse driven by culture.

[wowaccounttom]

not sure about the initial statement, but i do think it falls under "the gays and the normals are different" category

whether they want to call it choice, disease, confusion, w.e, the gays are far from the expected reproductive normal behavior from an evolutionary perspective of a civilized species.

of course there will be those who claim animals are gay too so its natural... well, i have seen dogs smell each others ass as part of their greeting.. should that be considered normal too?....

keywords here are "evolutionary perspective of a civilized species".

fornow and forever, the gays and the normals will be as far from each other as the blacks and the whites.

infracted - Forbidden Topics

[Saucerian]

Anyone who lives here knows there are two Missouris, "Missouri" and "Missourah". (See the Simpsons episode that parodied Tom Sawyer.)

This assclown is obviously from a county in the latter and I apologize on my state's behalf.

[Underverse]

Fetishes being expressed through cultural elements doesn't necessarily mean they're cultural, as opposed to being culturally colored in their expression.

Sure, at its root a fetish is an obsession. And obsessions have biological mechanisms. I would also argue that 'gay' is an obsession, one that is rooted in biology but morphs into something different due to cultural pressures.

[Underverse]

Did you liken homosexuality to teenage rebellion?

....no? I'm not sure what you're saying here.

[Tyrianth]

I said 'gay' is cultural, not homosexuality. Homosexual behavior is quite normal for humans. 'Gay' is simply an exacerbation of an initial impulse driven by culture.

Define gay. What exactly does "gay" exacerbate?

[Underverse]

not sure about the initial statement, but i do think it falls under "the gays and the normals are different" category

whether they want to call it choice, disease, confusion, w.e, the gays are far from the expected reproductive normal behavior from an evolutionary perspective of a civilized species.

of course there will be those who claim animals are gay too so its natural... well, i have seen dogs smell each others ass as part of their greeting.. should that be considered normal too?....

keywords here are "evolutionary perspective of a civilized species".

fornow and forever, the gays and the normals will be as far from each other as the blacks and the whites.

'Expected normal behavior' is relative. And the behavior of other animals becomes less informative the further they are from humans.

The expected norm for humans is heavily informed by our cultural history. And our cultural history is generally a stack of failures sprinkled with successes.

[Dextroden]

....no? I'm not sure what you're saying here.

You talked about fetishes developing in spite of culture and that people with kids will understand. Sounds like you are talking about teenage rebellion.