O Flora, of the moon, of the dream. O Little ones, O fleeting will of the ancients. Let the hunter be safe. Let them find comfort. And let this dream, their captor, Foretell a pleasant awakening
If you want to wave your Confederate Flag in your house and on your property then you go fucking nuts. The problem is when you want to wave it on a government building then we have a problem. The Confederate Flag is a battle flag of traitors to the U.S. who broke away over many issues but mainly over the rich not losing their slaves to keep their wealth and power. They broke away and fought the U.S. they are traitors. Not flying traitors flags on government buildings is in fact not "whitewashing" history that would be like asking Germany to wave Nazi flags over their government buildings and crying that by not doing so you are "whitewashing" history.
infracted - minor flaming
Last edited by pathora44; 2017-05-15 at 05:27 AM.
Taking down the monuments that were erected to celebrate some of these evil treasonous bastards? I'm pretty down with that.
As long as they continue to teach kids about all that shit, as it's super important to remember it, and not try to downplay the atrocities that were committed during the slave days. I don't have any problem.
You brought up rewriting history books, yo. Unless you're saying that your post claiming that history books are being rewritten was incorrec to begin with, in which case we can call the whole thing a wash and a collective waste of time.
wow, calling me racist for wanting to preserve the bad parts of history so we never forget them. And flags never came up once. Manufacture some more outrage? and nazis. Man you must be burning calories performing all those mental gymnastics.
Fun fact: Dudes showing up in black masks, body armor, and with sniper support to smash up your monuments are the tools of dictators, not democracies.
they're attempting to get rid of history that offends them. I believe in preserving all history, especially the "bad" parts. If I do end up doing noteworthy things in my life, I want them to include not just triumphs, but every single failure. Every "Drunkenly shouting at cars at 9 AM because my dog died and I drank a double of scotch." Every "Dumbass almost cut his thumb off trying to make a salad", "Forgot to look both ways and got hit by a bus, got up, and yelled at the driver until he got free fare for a single ride."
From beast wars of all places: "Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence."
Last edited by kasuke06; 2017-05-15 at 05:29 AM.
O Flora, of the moon, of the dream. O Little ones, O fleeting will of the ancients. Let the hunter be safe. Let them find comfort. And let this dream, their captor, Foretell a pleasant awakening
The reason they were wearing masks and body armor is because they received threats of violence for taking down the statue. Also these same people are the same ones fighting over removing Confederate Flags from government buildings. People who claim that flying a Confederate Flag is in no way racist and purely "to support their heritage" are just fooling themselves. It would be like a guy claiming he was straight but liked to have his dick sucked by men.
Yep. I will totally think slavery is okay from being in the presence of things related to the confederacy.
It's a fine line to dance. Otherwise, you start calling people who have confederate flags racist. And then I'll be confused by the people who have me as a family friend while having that flag.
As far as I'm concerned, they are. They're flying the flag of the losing side of a civil war that was still largely about slavery for the South (I'm aware the North weren't benevolent and willing to go to war to free the slaves, but to go to war to preserve the union). Flying the flag of the losing side of a civil war is already bad enough, but when it also represents something as odious as slavery it's even worse.
I'm struggling to think of other major Western countries where the losing side of their civil wars (you know, the ones now considered traitors) are still so celebrated, and can't say I can think of any off the top of my head.
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No, they're getting rid of monuments that were erected to celebrate these men.
The history is still there, that's not going anywhere. As long as it's written in books and taught in school, it will be remembered.
You're confusing the removal of a physical object with the removal of knowledge.
Generally most countries pull down the monuments that were erected by their respective rebel groups in civil wars, the monuments erected to dictators/tyrants/authoritarian regimes, the monuments that were put up to celebrate these dark times of the country.
They will have monuments to remember them often times, but they're very different than those erected to celebrate them.
Cool story. And even if the monuments to these men are removed, all those dirty bits of US history will continue to be taught to kids.
Unless Republicans get their way and get to whitewash US history into some fantasy of the US as the ever prefect bastion of moral superiority who has never had a dark day in her life.
I take it you actually don't live in the South. Plenty of people fly it for pride in living down here and not hatred of blacks. Fuck, I haven't heard anyone actually say "The South will rise again!" outside of jokes about the South.
Again, friends that fly it. Why aren't they lynching me, o savior of mine?
I do not live in the South, and I'm aware of why some may fly it. But I don't give a shit, because that's a stupid, dumb, awful fucking reason to fly the flag of the losing side of your countries civil war, especially when it's got the specter of slavery so closely associated with it.
If they wanted to create a flat of a giant truck, transporting the biggest smoker filled with meats you've ever seen, with a howitzer and .50 caliber machine gun on either end, rolling coal, with a platter of fried food instead of a driver, and whatever other Southern stereotypes you can think of to show off their pride, I wouldn't give a rats ass. If they like the flag and feel proud of it, good on them.
But don't do it with the god damn losing side of a civil war, especially if you're going to pretend to be patriotic.
Because I don't subscribe to stupid hyperbole.
This isn't really a relevant argument. Removing statues like this is not a move to forget history. Simply a move to cease celebrating terrible periods in history. Kind of like how tearing down a Rommel statue wouldn't be an attempt to "forget that Nazis existed", but just to take down a statue celebrating a particular Nazi (Rommel chosen specifically for this example because, like Lee, he was a comparatively even-tempered and decent man, despite the horrors committed by those he served).
We can remember the dark parts of our history without overly celebrating them.
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The point is that's it's basically like flying the red-white-and-black Swastika flag of the Nazis because you're "proud of your German heritage". If you DON'T support Nazi ideologies, then it just means you're completely ignorant of the symbol you're using and what it stands for.
Same goes for people using a Confederate flag as the symbol of their "pride" while, by your argument, disavowing all the central ideals of said Confederacy.
Yes you do. Hence why everyone that doesn't consider this flag an endorsement of slavery is racist to you.
Now. How about you tell me how I must be terrified to live down here because of statues of long dead assholes.
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Then we must remove the American flag. Slavery happened under it.
Just going to point out the the monument in question was not erected by a "rebel group." It was completed and installed in 1924. The artist that conceived it was Henry Shrady (same dude who did the Ulysses S. Grant monument at the capitol and son of Grant's person physician) and was completed by Leo Lentelli (an Italian immigrant who came to this country in 1914.)
Where was this statue designed and built? White Plains, New York. Surely a hotbed of rebel southerners in 1924.
Lee Park, where it is installed is part of the Virginia Civil Wars Trails program which highlights historical locations outside of the National Parks with information pertaining to the History of the American Civil War. Who donated the land for Lee and Jackson Parks respectively? Paul McIntire, who while he lived mostly away from his home city still took it upon himself to donate the land and commission statues for Lee, Jackson, Lewis, Clark, Sacajawea and George Rogers Clark.
So unless we got some time-traveling Confederates, I'm pretty confident that this wasn't a "monument erected to dictators/tyrants/authoritarian regimes" by "rebel groups" in order to "highlight the dark times."
You're confusing "tangentially associated with" and "integrally defined by the existence of". The Confederacy's primary reason for existing, by the Articles of Secession filed by the individual States themselves, was to defend and protect the institution of slavery. Slavery and the Confederacy are inseparable. The same is clearly not true of the USA, since it's been fine without slavery for 150 years, and it was never integrally defined by the institution, unlike the Confederacy.
This is a pretty damned obvious difference in context, but you know that it's a false equivalence, you're not this oblivious.
The moment those torches got lit and brought out in a public domain the fire department / anti riot should of shown up with pressure hoses at dosed them all out. That protest is the literal definition of stupidity right there. It would have only taken one drunken idiot in that crowd to set off a fire or one heated argument or one person whos deliberately is there to cause mayhem
Don't tell that to the South, they sure as hell thought it was about slavery. They seceded due to slavery, and started the war due to slavery. How long had Lincoln been in power, before they seceded, claiming slavery as the cause?
https://www.civilwar.org/learn/prima...eceding-states