Mother demands €10.000 from Dutch public school for class photo during Muslim Holiday

[Acidz]

As a dutch person i can say.
She needs to listen to the dutch rules and not her religion.
If she feels so special because she is muslim, she can just fuck off to her own "Better" country as they all say.

Which rules do you think the court used to judge her case?

[Deleted]

I'm not even saying it's odd. I'm very forward with this, actually. Christianity is favored as a point of fact. For several reasons, and I'm OK with it. Extend that to your question: I'm ok with cultures celebrating their stuffs. I'm just not willing to accept whatever rhetoric to hide the fact that they the west has a fondness for Christianity.

yeah fair enough. I wouldn't really call it a fondness for christianity at this point in time though, it obviously all originated in a time when religion was very important, which ofcourse has had large cultural and historical impacts, but today id just call it a non-religious tradition. It's probably just to much hassle to be worth changing, i'm sure most people would prefer a extra day off on a date of their own choosing instead of most of the official holidays, but i also think they don't care enough either way to ask politicians about. Seculars would win any political debate if it came to it though, the majority don't care about the religion parts involved anymore.

[Deleted]

Western civilization is the result of the interplay between Judeo-Christian religions and pagan religions. Christmas is actually a pagan winter festival (Roman Winter Solstice) co-opted by early Christians to ease the spread of the religion.

We dont have to get used to it, we dont have to accept it, but we do have to tolerate it to an extent.

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The modern states were created by Western cultures, so it is hardly shocking the holidays align with said culture. If you would prefer the state align with a different culture, you are free to move to a state that does so. Do not expect others to change to accommodate a different culture.

I don't even know why I bother, when I've repeatedly said I'm ok with you guys celebrating whatever, and the Netherlands deciding, as the sovereign state that they are, what stuff they celebrate. It's good that we agree on how deeply rooted Christianity is in the west, as they even had the power to coopt stuff, and have it remain though the centuries.

Consider the line you're making bold as essentially a dismissal of the poster I'm responding to.
But I'd argue it's precisely tolerance what you might want to drop. You don't need to tolerate any heinous culture or practice. If you're on whatever side of the mmo-c divide between shitlords and sjw, consider that tolerating that stupidity for too long, letting it prosper, normalizes it.
Muslims have been in Europe for centuries. We're having a bit of a hiccup in what should otherwise be a prosperous relationship. You don't have to do anything personally, but you will get used to it; or die and let other people work it out. As an aside, I welcome any attempt to combat, or even coopt, any unacceptable baggage historically associated with Islam. But bear in mind that what we're talking about here is a festivity that amounts to a family gathering to eat lamb: it's Muslim thanksgiving, essentially, and celebrates an event that is profoundly important to the other two major monotheistic religions.

[glowzone]

Why is missing picture day a big deal...It's not an American "yearbook" like thing, we just take a picture down here and that's it.
Heck, I'd argue missing the lessons of that day is a far bigger deal.

[Deleted]

yeah fair enough. I wouldn't really call it a fondness for christianity at this point in time though, it obviously all originated in a time when religion was very important, which ofcourse has had large cultural and historical impacts, but today id just call it a non-religious tradition. It's probably just to much hassle to be worth changing, i'm sure most people would prefer a extra day off on a date of their own choosing instead of most of the official holidays, but i also think they don't care enough either way to ask politicians about. Seculars would win any political debate if it came to it though.

Not to disagree, but I think living inside a culture blinds you to how ingrained it is. The meaning of Christmas is largely removed from the nativity, but christian imagery is abundant everywhere.
As to politics, it surely varies from country to country. Where I live they actually have a piece of legislation that encroaches Christianity in several areas. It's a legacy from the dictatorship in the shape of an accord with the Vatican. The socialists sometimes bring its removal as an electoral promise, but it doesn't seem to catch on.

[Deleted]

Not to disagree, but I think living inside a culture blinds you to how ingrained it is. The meaning of Christmas is largely removed from the nativity, but christian imagery is abundant everywhere.
As to politics, it surely varies from country to country. Where I live they actually have a piece of legislation that encroaches Christianity in several areas. It's a legacy from the dictatorship in the shape of an accord with the Vatican. The socialists sometimes bring its removal as an electoral promise, but it doesn't seem to catch on.

it's definitely ingrained, but i'd argue that it's much more cultural and historical in nature than religious these days.

e.g. people want churches to be monuments and kept maintained because they are a piece of historical architecture, not because they have religious meaning to them.

the current generation still has parents who were raised catholic, but the next generation won't and then it'll become a lot more obvious.

[Kellhound]

I don't even know why I bother, when I've repeatedly said I'm ok with you guys celebrating whatever, and the Netherlands deciding, as the sovereign state that they are, what stuff they celebrate. It's good that we agree on how deeply rooted Christianity is in the west, as they even had the power to coopt stuff, and have it remain though the centuries.

Consider the line you're making bold as essentially a dismissal of the poster I'm responding to.
But I'd argue it's precisely tolerance what you might want to drop. You don't need to tolerate any heinous culture or practice. If you're on whatever side of the mmo-c divide between shitlords and sjw, consider that tolerating that stupidity for too long, letting it prosper, normalizes it.
Muslims have been in Europe for centuries. We're having a bit of a hiccup in what should otherwise be a prosperous relationship. You don't have to do anything personally, but you will get used to it; or die and let other people work it out. As an aside, I welcome any attempt to combat, or even coopt, any unacceptable baggage historically associated with Islam. But bear in mind that what we're talking about here is a festivity that amounts to a family gathering to eat lamb: it's Muslim thanksgiving, essentially, and celebrates an event that is profoundly important to the other two major monotheistic religions.

Tolerate means I cant kill you or injure you or perform other illegal harmful activities against you except in self defence, I cant stop you from practicing your religion. It does not mean I have to be nice, welcoming, accommodating, or accepting, nor does it mean I ever have to "get used to you". If I followed you idea that I do not have to tolerate any heinous culture or practice, I would not have to tolerate any non-mainstream-Judeo-Christian religions. To combat what I see as "unacceptable baggage" would require me to combat everything written after Revelations. Hence why to be part of a "civilized" society based on freedom I have to tolerate things I despise.

And FYI, Christians generally do not consider Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son as a "profoundly important" event compared to Passover and the issuance of the Ten Commandments, let alone to the birth, death, and resurrection of Christ.