The Horde didn't abandon you!

[SylviaDragon]

Their communication was pretty crappy during the event. You would think both sides would have some magical messengers or something so they could coordinate better. And honestly as far as strategy goes sending most of your world leaders to the front line of a suicide mission on day one is not a very smart move to begin with...
The Horde could have handled it a bit better and in reality if your leaders and strategist insists on fighting on the front lines there should be a fallback to the chain of command so you can keep going when something goes wrong- but this is wow we are talking about so strategical grievances are pointless.

I roll my eyes so hard i nearly disconnect from this reality every time Genn throws a hissyfit. yes, i get it, the Banshee Queen killed your son and ruined your city but the sky is falling and hell is empty so maybe put a pin in this one? With both factions hanging out in Dal i refuse to believe no one has caught wind of the death of the warchief and what really happened. (granted the Horde switch Warchiefs so often its hard to keep up)

Its a shame really. Everyone lost their minds when the legion trailer was shown at Blizzcon and Sylvanas and Varian's ships pulled up alongside each other. Then 30 seconds in to the pre launch event they take that all back.

I'm so tired on the horde vrs ally thing. I just want to be able to send mail to my horde alts and be allowed to still group with my ally friends if i roll an undead. =/

[Hyde]

The only thing i found funny is that horde are always like "Lok'tar OGAR" Victory or death. I never heard them say "victory or run when shit gets scary"

That's an Orcish mantra. Neither Vol'jin nor Sylvanas are orcs and Orcs would say that regardless of their faction.

[Dellis0991]

Lazy storytelling to keep the war between factions go on.

True but there are a few valid issues left (of course they can be solved peacefully) like forsaken encroachment on human and dwarf lands, and whatever the hell is still going on in ashenvale between the elves and orcs and I got this feeling that Jaina is limbering up in Kul tiras to do something quite stupid and there is Genn too.

[Lady Dragonheart]

But they had an damn airship on point, ready to evac everyone. Nobody on that thing saw what was going on over by the horde side? Riiiiiiight. "There was too much 'Fel Smoke', sir! We couldn't see!!!"

/facepalm

So... You're seriously arguing about the meta?

[kasuke06]

That's exactly what we did with the horn. Battle sights are noisy af, no one is going to hear ordinary shouting. And Alliance knows the Horde signals.

The only signal you have is "big ass horn" which usually just makes for alerting someone to visual signals. say the visual of wrynn looking up, and seeing sylvanas just kinda... stopping.

[SirCowdog]

So... You're seriously arguing about the meta?

I was making fun of the ridiculous idea that nobody saw what happened with the horde side of the battle.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I was making fun of the ridiculous idea that nobody saw what happened with the horde side of the battle.

Well, they didn't. So, what exactly is your issue?

[Asiel]

They didn't need couriers. Sylvie could've SHOUTED from that ledge.

[SirCowdog]

Well, they didn't. So, what exactly is your issue?

That it's ridiculous. I thought that was clear.

They had an airship on station above the battle. There were plenty of opportunities for observers to see what happened with the horde retreat both on the way in, and on the way out during the extraction.

The entire situation is so full of plot holes that it probably shouldn't have been released to the public.

[DarthMonk79]

That it's ridiculous. I thought that was clear.

They had an airship on station above the battle. There were plenty of opportunities for observers to see what happened with the horde retreat both on the way in, and on the way out during the extraction.

The entire situation is so full of plot holes that it probably shouldn't have been released to the public.

Yeah... I'm sure the airship was just chilling right above the battle and yet not firing any of its artillery. The airship was a way's off, that's why it took the flare being fired to bring it down. Otherwise it would have been under attack by the demon's as we saw in the expansion cutscene where Varian's ship goes down. The odds that the personnel aboard the ship were close enough to spot everything that was going on is insane. It was there as a retreat option only. Was probably the sole surviving airship from the initial raid of the shores so it was kept a way's back.

[Teri]

Horde doesn't feel like horde since the early Wotlk divide really, Garrosh building his big fort in borean, undercity debacle with the wrathgate. Siege of orgrimmar.

Cata divided tauren/trolls further, sylvanas dealing with valkyr, not approved by garrosh.

MoP still had forsaken/orc together , then later troll conflict & mana bomb


WoD tried to reuinite the player "commander", horde followers, horde crews on ships, goblin submarine/orc destroyer/forsaken battleship designs (not Orc follower or Orc ships only)

Now In legion, new warchief with initially her own mission to enslave eyir, blood elves involved in suramar, other races seeming nowhere in broken isles outside of members of Legionfall class armies.... yes 7th legion/kor'kron are new followers in 7.2

Legion conflict is nowhere near a faction all out war right now but we seen very little compared to MoP tbh.

There's gotta be some time of peace on argus, and I hope it won't have any pvp WQ over there.... Warden towers are more of a skirmish between forsaken/gilneans then anything, and the FFA quests certainly arent horde vs alliance...

[Irian]

The fight against Illidan was won by the Sha'tar, Aldor, Scryer and Maiev Shadowsong.

The fight against the Lich King was won by the Ashen Verdict, Tirion, and Mograine.

The fight against Deathwing was won by the Dragon Aspects and Thrall.

The fight against Archimonde and Kil'jaeden was won by Khadgar, Yrel, Durotan, Grom, and the AU Draenor Orcs and Draenei.

You're stretching it insanely far to give the credit of any of those to either the Horde or Alliance. They were doing things during all those expansions, but in a lot of them (Wrath, Cataclysm especially, WoD) they were only fighting each other and trying not to be overwhelmed on their own lands.

I never gave credit to the Horde. I'm saying the Horde participated and helped achieve victory in those wars. They were wars that the Horde fought in and won.

Yes they weren't wars the Horde fought alone, but very few large-scale continent wide wars are just "this one group versus this other group". The only one I'd give up to question that the Horde didn't participate in was Deathwing, since the Horde was embroiled in their new faction conflict.

Also worth noting I'm taking into account that the Horde player characters are to a degree actually canon and are actively participating in these things. I'm aware that often the killing blows on major characters is attributed to one group or the other but characters like Orkus, Shinfel and Ritssyn exist which are some of the few moments of complete proof that there are actual lore characters ingame who have participated in the raids of some major areas. Since Shinfel and Ritssyn both in some part aided in the fight against Deathwing, and Orkus was present at ICC during the invasion of Icecrown, we can say pretty confidently that the Horde canonically aided in the fall of at least the Lich King and the Twilight's Hammer.

[SirCowdog]

Yeah... I'm sure the airship was just chilling right above the battle and yet not firing any of its artillery.

Except that's exactly what it did. /facepalm Go check right around the 0:54 second mark. It was close enough to see green flares(another stupid plot hole considering how EVERYTHING on the island is green fell gunk) fired by Mekkatorque. And the air is clear enough for it to be able to shoot down individual felbats. It even comes in at a perfect angle to see over the ridge that Sylvanus abandoned.

Tell me again how they missed what was going on?!

The odds that the personnel aboard the ship were close enough to spot everything that was going on is insane. It was there as a retreat option only. Was probably the sole surviving airship from the initial raid of the shores so it was kept a way's back.

Hello? Spyglasses? Hunter farsight? Unless you want me to believe that they were keen enough to see the green on green flare, but not the rest of the battlefield? Come off it already.

[KyrtF]

A tactical retreat isn't the same thing as abandonment. Varian was supposed to be rather good at battle strat, yes? And Genn? Valen is 10,000 years old, I'm sure he knows when the back off. They should've been calling a retreat at the same time as Sylvanas. Granted, Sylvanas was a military genius even before Undeath but a lot of the Ally leaders are easily in the same league as her if not better.

And for what it's worth, The Horde didn't really retreat...some Val'kyr showed up and carried their butts out of there on Syl's orders. I'm sure there were soldiers still ripping demons apart when those Undead angels came down and tore them from the battlefield.

A tactical retreat....if thats what you want to call it....was tbe wrong decision.

We ran to save our lives...because we broke. The correct decision was to follow through and keep fighting. This was the Burning Legion and given that, retreat should not have been an option.

Running was necessary for the story....but the Horde broke and abandoned the Alliance who came out of that story looking far more noble.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Yes, they did. 1st course of action after roflstomping Sargeras, should be for "Manduin the Paladin" to storm undercity, behead Blowvanas, and reclaim Lordaeron.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

We kind of did though. What the hell happened to victory or death? Retreat is not the way of the Horde and I'm mad that it's how we've been written.

[Lucetia]

More like they abandoned the battle - they didn't abandon the Alliance. They did their job for them, which was to hold the cliff and give archer support for as long as possible. Had they not been ambushed by endless waves of ground troops, an infinite stream of hostile aerial troops and legion fel carriers bombing the troops, they likely could have stayed longer.

The funny thing in all that is while the Horde provided support from the cliff trying to fend off the bat and the Legion from the side the alliance act like they did all the work because they confronted Gul'dan. When really they had air support where they could've been bombing the ground troops (probably more effective) and they sit they are have a pow wow meeting with Gul'dan.

I mean really if you are that close to Gul'dan and you know what that battle means wouldn't you just go straight into it rather than hoping you could have a nice little fireside chat and everything work out?

[KyrtF]

Did you completely missed the fact that it wasnt gonna end in a win for either side? the portal cant be closed without the pillars of creations, had the horde remained there, they would have been all killed, the alliance would have pushed and would also been wiped because their plan was doomed to fail, and, as we saw, Gul'dan had Fel Reavers ready to deploy at any time

So...the Horde was right to retreat because of facts that weren't known at the time. They weren't shown as breaking because their leader got injured. We simply ran because we instinctively knew the Portal was going to remain open as we didn't have the Pillars.

The Horde broke. Rather than die trying to defeat the Legion before they establisged a secure beahhead, the Horde ran and it ran to save its skin. If ever there was a time when a total sacrifice was warranted....this was it.

It would be different if the Horde did have different information. If somebody told them that the Pillars were needed for example. But that didn't happen. Vol'jin got injured and told Sylvanas to save the Horde at the expense of the planet and the Alliance. Rather than ordering the Horde to hold the line in what they believed was their one chance to defeat the Legion, Sylvanas ordered a retreat.

Not because of the Pillars. Not because the Horde suddey acquired new knowledge.

We retreated to save our skins and grab a few more hours of life.

[Leyre]

So...the Horde was right to retreat because of facts that weren't known at the time. They weren't shown as breaking because their leader got injured. We simply ran because we instinctively knew the Portal was going to remain open as we didn't have the Pillars.

The Horde broke. Rather than die trying to defeat the Legion before they establisged a secure beahhead, the Horde ran and it ran to save its skin. If ever there was a time when a total sacrifice was warranted....this was it.

It would be different if the Horde did have different information. If somebody told them that the Pillars were needed for example. But that didn't happen. Vol'jin got injured and told Sylvanas to save the Horde at the expense of the planet and the Alliance. Rather than ordering the Horde to hold the line in what they believed was their one chance to defeat the Legion, Sylvanas ordered a retreat.

Not because of the Pillars. Not because the Horde suddey acquired new knowledge.

We retreated to save our skins and grab a few more hours of life.

My god, you are so stupid its hurting my head, THE.WHOLE.PLAN.WAS.DOOMED.TO.FAIL.BECAUSE.IT.WAS.A.TRAP, nothing was going to work because we needed the pillars to close the portal, no one knew this of course, and had we continue with the original plan everyone would have died and the legion would have won, Sylvanas sounding the retreat had the unexpected effect of saving everyone ( wich if you ever care about the lore, its something that the SI:7 came to know later, once they found out that the whole shit was a trap to kill all the leaders )

Edit: Sylvanas its a fucking strategist, the moment shit started to go south she took the most obvious decision, retreat and make another plan, what do you think would have happened when arthas invaded silvermoon and she would have taken a "victory or death" aproach? yes, she still died, but every time she retreated she came back with a new plan to try and stop arthas, thats what a good strategist do, not rush into battle with just foot soldiers and 0 ranged troops

[Dhrizzle]

That it's ridiculous. I thought that was clear.

They had an airship on station above the battle. There were plenty of opportunities for observers to see what happened with the horde retreat both on the way in, and on the way out during the extraction.

The entire situation is so full of plot holes that it probably shouldn't have been released to the public.

The airship was called in quite late in the battle and didn't arrive until after the Horde had gone.