Ex-communist states complain of rip-off food in EU

[Zelk]

Hardly a surprise, the EU stands for nothing other than profit

[Cybran]

Nothing 'forces' you, your market is just noncompetitive.

Germany is subsidizing those chains to take out local production. You can't compete with that.

[Elegiac]

Hardly a surprise, the EU stands for nothing other than profit

Which is why the push into Eastern Europe was the UK's brainchild. Obviously.

[Zelk]

I mean they can always leave and make their country communist again if they want to.

The irony of this comment and that avatar, haha

[Elegiac]

Germany is subsidizing those chains to take out local production. You can't compete with that.

The reason for subsidization of the food industry is to ensure that the food market remains relatively stable.

Bulgaria's food industry being a dying piece of garbage has more to do with economy of scale and the fact that centralized production by large firms is more cost effective than cottage production.

Point in fact, if it wasn't for the EU protecting certain industries they would have been crushed by larger firms long ago.

[Cybran]

The reason for subsidization of the food industry is to ensure that the food market remains relatively stable.

Bullshit. Germany does it to export poverty to the rest of Europe. And I want to remind you that government subsidies to companies are ILLEGAL under EU law. Germany is breaking EU laws.

https://www.thelocal.de/20120507/42395

[Kalis]

Most of said funding, by your own article, was from the World Bank and the EBRD, formed in 1944 and 1991 respectively, both predating the EU, the World Bank by a half-century.

Your own source contradicts your anti-EU screed.

The EEC is effectively the pre-Maastricht EU, they were founders of the EBRD.

[Akka]

So the food costs more and is of lower quality. The EU is a pile of shit, but this goes too far.

Yeah, without the EU the companies would suddendly sell better products at a lower price, because... err, because why actually ?

Cretin.

[LMuhlen]

So the insertion of foreign low quality high price products is hindering the local production of low price high quality goods?

If they are doing this and it is working it is due to a lack of competition/regulation.

But ya, same products can be very different in different countries. Companies adapt to optimize their profits according to local preferences and restrictions.

[Elegiac]

Bullshit. Germany does it to export poverty to the rest of Europe.

How quickly we forget the 1930s.

Please do elaborate how more readily available food products is 'exporting poverty'.

[Cybran]

Please do elaborate how more readily available food products is 'exporting poverty'.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/b...rade.html?_r=0

Avangard lost seven farms and 7.5 million chickens. It now keeps just 10.7 million hens, barely a third of its prewar capacity.

They destroy the economies of new members with small quotas and then fill the void with lower quality products from Germany. They lose jobs, eat worse and pay more.

[Elegiac]

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/b...rade.html?_r=0

They destroy the economies of new members with small quotas and then fill the void with lower quality products from Germany.

Said new members should have more stringent product quality regulations, then.

And again, these economies are being destroyed because they can't compete. There's no malice here, just markets.

[Endus]

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/b...rade.html?_r=0

They destroy the economies of new members with small quotas and then fill the void with lower quality products from Germany. They lose jobs, eat worse and pay more.

Your own argument contradicts itself.

If they "pay more", then the products from Germany cost more than locally-produced stuff.
If they "eat worse", then the quality is also less than the locally-produced stuff.

So why are people paying more for shittier products? That just flat-out doesn't make sense, and certainly isn't a problem created by Germany, even if it exists. And you've cited nothing to back it up.

Also, your own source once again underscores that the issues have little to do with the EU. They make the point that Ukrainian farmers didn't get unrestricted access to the greater European marketplace (which is what you were complaining about, in reverse, I'll note for fun), but instead is due to the collapse of their international trade to countries like Iraq and the war with Russia, neither of which has much to do with EU economic policy in any real sense.

[Cybran]

these economies are being destroyed because they can't compete. There's no malice here, just markets.

https://www.thelocal.de/20120507/42395

German discount supermarket giant Aldi, which has consistently made its owners the richest men in the country, has been taking government subsidies to train employees, it emerged at the weekend.
But weekly magazine Der Spiegel said many details remain shrouded in secrecy even by the government, to protect the commercial interests of Aldi Nord and Aldi Süd – separate but associated companies.

Information officially requested from the Federal Office for Goods Transport (BAG) did show that Aldi training was being paid for with government funds, but details were scarce.

“The requested information concerns details which have not been approved for the public, and due to a request for secrecy from Aldi, cannot be released,” the BAG statement sent to Spiegel said.

German government pumps these companies with money to take out EU competitors and then hides it. You cant complete with this Unfair practice.

[Elegiac]

https://www.thelocal.de/20120507/42395

German government pumps these companies with money to take out EU competitors and then hides it. You cant complete with this Unfair practice.

Public money goes towards training workers for meaningful employment and it's suddenly an attack against Bulgaria. Logic.

Even if it were true, here's the ultimate conclusion for Eastern Europe: Sucks to Suck.

[Cybran]

Public money goes towards training workers for meaningful employment and it's suddenly an attack

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/stat.../index_en.html

Why control State aid?
A company which receives government support gains an advantage over its competitors. Therefore, the Treaty generally prohibits State aid unless it is justified by reasons of general economic development. To ensure that this prohibition is respected and exemptions are applied equally across the European Union, the European Commission is in charge of ensuring that State aid complies with EU rules.

What is State aid?
State aid is defined as an advantage in any form whatsoever conferred on a selective basis to undertakings by national public authorities. Therefore, subsidies granted to individuals or general measures open to all enterprises are not covered by this prohibition and do not constitute State aid (examples include general taxation measures or employment legislation).

To be State aid, a measure needs to have these features:

there has been an intervention by the State or through State resources which can take a variety of forms (e.g. grants, interest and tax reliefs, guarantees, government holdings of all or part of a company, or providing goods and services on preferential terms, etc.);
the intervention gives the recipient an advantage on a selective basis, for example to specific companies or industry sectors, or to companies located in specific regions
competition has been or may be distorted;
the intervention is likely to affect trade between Member States.

Even this is STATE AID which is against EU Law. THE German government hides how much money they give to big chains. It's not just training subsidies.

[Endus]

https://www.thelocal.de/20120507/42395

German government pumps these companies with money to take out EU competitors and then hides it. You cant complete with this Unfair practice.

1> It's not an "unfair practice"; there's no law against commercial subsidies.
2> Aldi's only presence in Eastern Europe is in Poland, Hungary, and Slovenia. Not even remotely all of Eastern Europe.
3> Offsetting some training costs is not going to make it impossible for local stores to compete. Why can't they get government support, too?

- - - Updated - - -

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/stat.../index_en.html

Even this is STATE AID which is against EU Law. THE German government hides how much money they give to big chains. It's not just training subsidies.

Therefore, the Treaty generally prohibits State aid unless it is justified by reasons of general economic development.

That's the third source you've cited that directly contradicts the claim you're trying to make in that post.

Why are you doing this?

[sarahtasher]

Okay, I have a very, very blunt question for the usual suspects here.

Please, please mention me the last time the usual extremely agressive and xenophobic countries ''victims of the EU betacucks'' were able to do what they want ?

Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania (a jab at some posters) were never great powers. They were for centuries provinces of the Ottoman Empire, then trade this status for being poorly administrated provinces of the Hasburgs. For a few decades at best at the end of the 19th century, they were between client states and protectorates of Russia/Austro-Hungary. They then shackled themselves with the Nazis, who used their bodies as anti-tank ditches before running away when the Red Army came with a roaring rampage of revenge.

I'm going to be even ''blunter'' here : Bulgaria is presumably since 1990 the most ''freer'' it have ever been since Basileos Basile II got his Seagalesque worthy affectionate nickname. Bulgaria was NEVER able to act all alone in Europe. Stop pretending it was.

[Deleted]

It's because these Eastern European countries have much poorer food standards.

That is wrong. Maybe it applies to Czech Republic, but not to all Eastern European countries.

In Baltic countries food standards are very high, way higher than what I've seen in Germany. In Germany there is lots of expensive food they call "organic", the rest of food is full of junk. In Estonia that "organic" food is just normal food.

Though recently companies started to add more and more junk, its nowhere near levels I've seen in west. Most junk food comes from west.

[Cybran]

That's the third source you've cited that directly contradicts the claim you're trying to make in that post.

Flooding Eastern Europe with inferior and more expensive products from the same Brands is not "general economic development".