2 explosions in Manchester Arena - CONFIRMED Fatalities.

[Spectral]

None of the parents of dead kids burned alive in a bombed building give the tiniest flying fuck about your intent.

Which, of course, is why those of us that aren't nihilists regard the Islamist scum that hide among children to be so very awful. This is a deliberate tactic, the use of human shields, to put the West in a no-win position - allow freedom of operation for terrorists or make the choice to fight them and accept collateral damage.

Those that insist that the West is obligated to sit on its hands are pathetic and are the handmaidens for Islamism.

[GreenJesus]

None of the parents of dead kids burned alive in a bombed building give the tiniest flying fuck about your intent.

ISIS kills more muslims and children in their own countries than any western country... but yeh... sure..

[StayTuned]

Which, of course, is why those of us that aren't nihilists regard the Islamist scum that hide among children to be so very awful. This is a deliberate tactic, the use of human shields, to put the West in a no-win position - allow freedom of operation for terrorists or make the choice to fight them and accept collateral damage.

Those that insist that the West is obligated to sit on its hands are pathetic and are the handmaidens for Islamism.

The only solution to your scenario would then be the ultimate obliteration of all Arab nations, leaving not a single person or infrastructure intact.

Meddling in their affairs and collateral damage is the fuel that keeps them driving. In that case it's either all or nothing.

[Slant]

I'd say it is quite hard to misinterpret the Wester World.
Not after the whole "Iraq weapons of mass destruction" thing.
Not after basically destroying Lybia and turning it into a medieval feudal state.
Not after sponsoring a civil war in Syria that has taken thousands upon thousands of lives.

What is obvious is that everywhere the Western World interferes it brings chaos, destruction and death.
And then the West is somehow surprised when the mere echo of those chaos, destruction and death come to them. Surprised and astonished.
"Why us". "We haven't done anything wrong".

Hilarious to watch.

While I agree with your point about Iraq, I disagree with your conclusion that it gives anyone a moral superiority to respond in kind. I also disagree with the notion that the West deliberately targets children and women, when we in fact try to avoid those targets. The West has hit hospitals and children shelters on numerous occasion, but regretted it every time. Now, the public backlash at those targets doesn't help the dead. So now you can tell me again how I am supposed to ignore intentions, but it is a vital differentiation.

Because, make no mistake, if intent doesn't matter... the West absolutely has the capabilities to reduce the entire ME to rubble with no man alive. That we choose not to do so is all about intentions. So I hope whatever fucked up radical may be reading this, thank your god that there is this differentiation. It's not theoretical, it's very concrete and saves millions of lives. Think this terrorism is bad? It's nothing. And that's why we're pulling the punches. Because we know we're better than those savages.

[PassingBy]

ISIS kills more muslims and children in their own countries than any western country... but yeh... sure..

I wonder in which countries does ISIS have the strongest positions, and from which countries does it initially come.
And what had happenned in those countries before ISIS was created.

[Spectral]

The only solution to your scenario would then be the ultimate obliteration of all Arab nations, leaving not a single person or infrastructure intact.

Meddling in their affairs and collateral damage is the fuel that keeps them driving. In that case it's either all or nothing.

Yeah, as anyone that's studied history knows, as long as one ignores Islamism and doesn't interfere in the politics of Arab Muslim countries, it renders Islam completely harmless and impotent to engage in attacks

[PassingBy]

While I agree with your point about Iraq, I disagree with your conclusion that it gives anyone a moral superiority to respond in kind. I also disagree with the notion that the West deliberately targets children and women, when we in fact try to avoid those targets. The West has hit hospitals and children shelters on numerous occasion, but regretted it every time. Now, the public backlash at those targets doesn't help the dead. So now you can tell me again how I am supposed to ignore intentions, but it is a vital differentiation.

Because, make no mistake, if intent doesn't matter... the West absolutely has the capabilities to reduce the entire ME to rubble with no man alive. That we choose not to do so is all about intentions. So I hope whatever fucked up radical may be reading this, thank your god that there is this differentiation. It's not theoretical, it's very concrete and saves millions of lives. Think this terrorism is bad? It's nothing. And that's why we're pulling the punches. Because we know we're better than those savages.

Why isn't George W. Bush in jail?
Why isn't Tony Blair in jail?

The "regret" means jack shit, when we're talking about millions of people dead and whole countries destroyed and brought back into medieval times.

And no west can't turn the ME into rubble. Because it will mean bringing actual troops on the ground and fighting against guerilla and partisan war.
You can ask US about how did it go for them in Vietnam, or the USSR how did it feel in Afghanistan. Or Russia for that matter about how well did it go in Chechnya.

It will mean thousands and thousands of casualties. Which the West just can't afford to have.

So no it is not about intentions. The amount of people (children included) that were killed by direct actions of the West is much more than those killed in terrorist attacks in the West. The amount of people that were killed as a result of the actions of the West is millions of people.

There would've been no ISIS if not for the West intervening in ME.
There would've been no Osama bin Laden if not for hte West intervening in Afghanistan.

The terrorist attacks and the refugee crisis are the fruit that have grown from the seeds, planted by the West's strategy towards the ME, and the West's actions in the ME.
Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

[downnola]

Why are you talking of "the truth" as this monolithic unknown secret only SOME people know about. The truth is well know to everyone. We fucked up and now we pay. People like you are pushing back society decades. This isn't a secret. Numbers speak.

I'm not referring to "truth" in that way at all. You know full well your over simplistic narrative leaves out a good deal of inconvenient facts. However, that doesn't bother people like you in the least. If there's anything I've learned from interacting with Djalil, The Emperor, and you is that your narrative is unfalsifiable in your mind. You're unwilling to be wrong and debate/conversation is not a goal. You're going to ram your bullshit down everyone's throat regardless of what's said to refute it. As far as I can tell it's not very effective and nobody is buying your bullshit other than those that already buy into RT.com drivel.

[Independent voter]

The terrorist attacks and the refugee crisis are the fruit that have grown from the seeds, planted by the West's strategy towards the ME, and the West's actions in the ME.
Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

The refugee crisis was created by President Assad of Syria for his bro Putin, Assad terrorized the Syrian Sunnis and drove them like cattle into the EU, this was destabilize the EU and it led to the Brexit.

In exchange Putin put Russian troops and materials in Syria to prop up Assad.

[Deleted]

The refugee crisis was created by President Assad of Syria for his bro Putin, Assad terrorized the Syrian Sunnis and drove them like cattle into the EU, this was destabilize the EU and it led to the Brexit.

In exchange Putin put Russian troops and materials in Syria to prop up Assad.

This is one of your more out there posts.

[cyberglum]

I hope the UK authorities start taking some significant, pro-active measures in the next few days. France, in the wake of the attacks in Paris back in 2015, which killed 130 people, stepped their game-up with the raids on Mosques around Paris:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...30-war-weapons

I really hope we as Brits have enough balls to start doing similar.

[GreenJesus]

I hope the UK authorities start taking some significant, pro-active measures in the next few days. France, in the wake of the attacks in Paris back in 2015, which killed 130 people, stepped their game-up with the raids on Mosques around Paris:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...30-war-weapons

I really hope we as Brits have enough balls to start doing similar.

Dear god..... that is insane....

[Gimlix]

There are millions of islamists, millions. We cannot feasibly wipe them out militarily unless you're willing to sacrifice a whole lot more lives than those that have been lost to terrorism.

Yes we can. But we don't. There is a difference.

[StayTuned]

Yeah, as anyone that's studied history knows, as long as one ignores Islamism and doesn't interfere in the politics of Arab Muslim countries, it renders Islam completely harmless and impotent to engage in attacks

Naw, stability and prosperity is what drives Islam back. The religious overlords came always as a substitute for either secular leaders, moderates or at least those who kept Islamism under control. Islam thrives where the bullshit meters hit critical levels because it's the easiest tool for manipulation.

1953, Iran's president Mohammad Mossadegh, democratically elected leader, wanted religion and state separation. Replaced by the Sha who guaranteed the oil in return for a quasi dictatorship. He fukked his countrymen so hard, he got replaced by Ayatollah Khomeini - Radical Islamist.

Hussein fights a war for ~10 years I believe in which he uses mustard gas. We delivered the weapons although there was a weapons embargo.

Russia attacks Afghanistan, the West gives weapons to the radical Islamist to fight the Russians. The person fighting there was Osama Bin Laden.

Now Hussein attacks Kuwait. There quite some oil there. We make some shit up about Iraki soldiers killing babies. We're already at over 1 million dead people since the start.

Now you have US soldiers in Kuwait, which doesn't suit AQ and OBL.

Now we have 9/11.

Now Hussein suddenly has WMD. We kill him. Now ISIS uses the leftover weapons to create an "Islamic State".

Tell me, why again did we have to get rid of Mossadegh?

[cyberglum]

Hussein fights a war for ~10 years I believe in which he uses mustard gas. We delivered the weapons although there was a weapons embargo.

Russia attacks Afghanistan, the West gives weapons to the radical Islamist to fight the Russians. The person fighting there was Osama Bin Laden.

Now Hussein attacks Kuwait. There quite some oil there. We make some shit up about Iraki soldiers killing babies. We're already at over 1 million dead people since the start.

Now you have US soldiers in Kuwait, which doesn't suit AQ and OBL.

Now we have 9/11.

Now Hussein suddenly has WMD. We kill him. Now ISIS uses the leftover weapons to create an "Islamic State".

Tell me, why again did we have to get rid of Mossadegh?

You keep-on with this "We" thing.

"We" didn't do anything. None of the posters on this thread are responsible for our respective governments meddling in the Middle East. None of the children who died in Manchester are responsible. The People are not to blame.

I don't really understand what we're meant to be learning from your history lessons.

[StayTuned]

You keep-on with this "We" thing.

"We" didn't do anything. None of the posters on this thread are responsible for our respective governments meddling in the Middle East. None of the children who died in Manchester are responsible. The People are not to blame.

I don't really understand what we're meant to be learning from your history lessons.

Replace "we" with "Western Nations", or even "USA" if you will.

I'm giving you a frame in which you can put all these recent events, before people think it's coming from nothing.

[Mayhem]

Dont think the raf will stop bombing anytime soon and i dont think anyone is slaughtering more children there then isis, so people joining isis because the raf is killing some children is hypocrite's to say the least joining the group who is known to pray on children, sex slaves forcing them into suicide bombers, beheading them etc etc.

Sure it's never a good thing when they bomb children but atleast they try to avoid it.

Are you pretending the ones joining ISIS are able to get the same amount of information we are able to get?

[Deleted]

Tell me, why again did we have to get rid of Mossadegh?

Exclusive rights for oil trade, that's why.

[cyberglum]

Replace "we" with "Western Nations", or even "USA" if you will.

I'm giving you a frame in which you can put all these recent events, before people think it's coming from nothing.

I'm quite aware of the reason the world is the way it is right now.

If anyone else wants to know this great documentary by Adam Curtis explains it all. Dunno if the link will work for everyone (its just the BBC iPlayer), if it doesn't just hunt down Hypernormalisation by Adam Curtis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...rnormalisation

[Spectral]

Naw, stability and prosperity is what drives Islam back. The religious overlords came always as a substitute for either secular leaders, moderates or at least those who kept Islamism under control. Islam thrives where the bullshit meters hit critical levels because it's the easiest tool for manipulation.

1953, Iran's president Mohammad Mossadegh, democratically elected leader, wanted religion and state separation. Replaced by the Sha who guaranteed the oil in return for a quasi dictatorship. He fukked his countrymen so hard, he got replaced by Ayatollah Khomeini - Radical Islamist.

Hussein fights a war for ~10 years I believe in which he uses mustard gas. We delivered the weapons although there was a weapons embargo.

Russia attacks Afghanistan, the West gives weapons to the radical Islamist to fight the Russians. The person fighting there was Osama Bin Laden.

Now Hussein attacks Kuwait. There quite some oil there. We make some shit up about Iraki soldiers killing babies. We're already at over 1 million dead people since the start.

Now you have US soldiers in Kuwait, which doesn't suit AQ and OBL.

Now we have 9/11.

Now Hussein suddenly has WMD. We kill him. Now ISIS uses the leftover weapons to create an "Islamic State".

Tell me, why again did we have to get rid of Mossadegh?

Again, this is ridiculous short-termism. The Islamic world existed prior to the establishment of the post-WW2 order was established and it was emphatically not a set of nations that were disinclined to wage war against infidels.

Contrary to the beliefs of anti-Western ideologues, Arabs actually do have free will and agency rather than only responding to what whites do to them.