Complete LFR = Completed all the Raid content in an Expansion?

[Saverem]

Why does anyone want to "work" at their entertainment? I've got a job for when I want to "work". The purpose of WoW is to entertain me and keep me giving Blizzard money, not any sort of moralistic bullshit about "earning" virtual pixels.

Because getting those perks by rolling your dick on the keyboard doesn't give anyone any sense of accomplishment. It's the same issue Blizz is having right now with the RNG TF and Legendary system. Killing Xavius in LFR and then having his loot proc to TF 910 doesn't give the person the same sense of accomplishment as spending countless hours on M Gul'Dan and finally downing him after like 100 attempts and getting a normal 900 ilvl loot from him.

Do you think the AFKer who just got carried through LFR Xavius in literally 5 minutes, because that's how long that entire queue takes should get the same AotC achieve, and The Dreamer title as the M raiders who spent tons of effort, coordination, flasks, repair bills, and time to down him? If you do then you should just quit WoW now and go play Rollercoaster Tycoon.

[Deadite]

Because getting those perks by rolling your dick on the keyboard doesn't give anyone any sense of accomplishment. It's the same issue Blizz is having right now with the RNG TF and Legendary system. Killing Xavius in LFR and then having his loot proc to TF 910 doesn't give the person the same sense of accomplishment as spending countless hours on M Gul'Dan and finally downing him after like 100 attempts and getting a normal 900 ilvl loot from him.

People who want to go through all that are an extreme minority in this game. If people choose to play the game like that then fill your boots i say. The other 95% of players will pick what raid difficulty they want and do that. Once they do that then they have completed the raid content.

[Saverem]

People who want to go through all that are an extreme minority in this game. If people choose to play the game like that then fill your boots i say. The other 95% of players will pick what raid difficulty they want and do that. Once they do that then they have completed the raid content.

It was an example to prove a point. Personally, I'm in a "casual" raiding guild that's 5/10M and even though I accept that we won't be getting a M Gul'dan kill before ToS comes out, I don't think we should be given the free mount or title just because we killed him in N and H. Hell, it's stupid that we can even get BETTER gear than the 10/10M raiders simply by being luckier than them with TF gear.


Those mounts/pets/titles are all extra perks that aren't required to have in the game, so why not let them be a reward for those who actually put time and effort into the game? The day WoW caters to the LFR crowd will be the day they lose the core of their subscribers. If the core subscribers go, then so will countless of other accounts, because the core players are the ones buying the farmed reagents, they are the ones with the gold to buy tokens, without them the economy will take a hit. They are the backbone propping up the entire game.

You think the LFR raiders who play for 2 hours a week will be enough to sustain the game?

[The Flavour Cat]

Well, without a raid guild, yeah, LFR is the endgame.

Since MoP I've done all the raid content in LFR, once, and never set foot in it again.

Even without a raid guild, there's still the group finder. Heroic is the best I can do. I guess it all depends on how much time the player has to complete their desired raid difficulty.

[Deadite]

It was an example to prove a point. Personally, I'm in a "casual" raiding guild that's 5/10M and even though I accept that we won't be getting a M Gul'dan kill before ToS comes out, I don't think we should be given the free mount or title just because we killed him in N and H. Hell, it's stupid that we can even get BETTER gear than the 10/10M raiders simply by being luckier than them with TF gear.


Those mounts/pets/titles are all extra perks that aren't required to have in the game, so why not let them be a reward for those who actually put time and effort into the game? The day WoW caters to the LFR crowd will be the day they lose the core of their subscribers. If the core subscribers go, then so will countless of other accounts, because the core players are the ones buying the farmed reagents, they are the ones with the gold to buy tokens, without them the economy will take a hit. They are the backbone propping up the entire game.

You think the LFR raiders who play for 2 hours a week will be enough to sustain the game?

The LFR crowd are their core subscribers. I don't really understand what you are talking about when you say "Those mounts/pets/titles are all extra perks that aren't required to have in the game, so why not let them be a reward for those who actually put time and effort into the game?" LFR offers none of that.

You are looking at this from the wrong mind set. LFR is just part of the game that people do. I doubt anyone logs in just to do LFR then logs back on the week after. I am Joe Casual and i do a wing here and a wing there in LFR through the week. I don't do anything above LFR because i want to play when i want to play. If people want to raid 10 hours a day or 10 hours a year then they can have at it. Will i do a LFR wing or a 5 man or a BG? Each one holds the same significance to me. They are just a part of a video game that i will find fun.

[analmoose]

So are you saying the content you like to participate in is exhausted after a 1 hour clear of each wing of LFR? So you get maybe 4 hours of raid content each tier?

This is basically what it is tho. Having a more challenging fight is not more content, it's just a better, more rewarding time sink. You aren't seeing much new, maybe a different or more precise mechanic, but it isn't different content. Just a step up

[Saverem]

The LFR crowd are their core subscribers. I don't really understand what you are talking about when you say "Those mounts/pets/titles are all extra perks that aren't required to have in the game, so why not let them be a reward for those who actually put time and effort into the game?" LFR offers none of that.

You are looking at this from the wrong mind set. LFR is just part of the game that people do. I doubt anyone logs in just to do LFR then logs back on the week after. I am Joe Casual and i do a wing here and a wing there in LFR through the week. I don't do anything above LFR because i want to play when i want to play. If people want to raid 10 hours a day or 10 hours a year then they can have at it. Will i do a LFR wing or a 5 man or a BG? Each one holds the same significance to me. They are just a part of a video game that i will find fun.

Nope, their core subs are the people who actually log on and invest in things like tokens and Blizz store crap like pets/mounts/in game services. That's where they're getting the bulk of their $$ from. I just gave Blizz $55 last week by server/faction transferring one of my alts. That's $55 they got from me, the price of a AAA title game, for pretty much not having to do anything but move some numbers on some servers.

Not saying the LFR crowd isn't important, but those who actually invest time and money into the game are the ones propping up the entire game's economy and giving Blizz the fat pockets.

[Deadite]

Nope, their core subs are the people who actually log on and invest in things like tokens and Blizz store crap like pets/mounts/in game services. That's where they're getting the bulk of their $$ from. I just gave Blizz $55 last week by server/faction transferring one of my alts. That's $55 they got from me, the price of a AAA title game, for pretty much not having to do anything but move some numbers on some servers.

Not saying the LFR crowd isn't important, but those who actually invest time and money into the game are the ones propping up the entire game's economy and giving Blizz the fat pockets.

Does doing LFR lock you out from the cash shop? I really have no idea who buys the most crap from the cash shop so can't really argue one way or the other. I do know that Blizzard may care about how much money some one invests in the game but they don't give a rats ass how much time you invest. They would be more than happy to take your sub and never log on to clog up the servers.

[Saverem]

I do know that Blizzard may care about how much money some one invests in the game but they don't give a rats ass how much time you invest.

WRONG! You obviously don't know anything about an MMO's business model if you think they don't care about time investment. This is the SOLE REASON why so many big MMOs switched over to F2P from a P2P model like SWTOR/Wild Star/AoC/EQ2/etc it's because they want to have people playing the game. MMOs depend on people to be playing to drive their economies and their PvE/PvP. If there's no one there to group with/talk with/buy from/sell to/guild with/PvP with/PvE with then what's the purpose of playing an MMO?

In order for an MMO to be successful they need to actually have people logging in and playing the game or else it would be a desert town and cause a cascading effect of boredom resulting in less and less players playing.

[Kazuchika]

If anything now that they don't report actual subscriptions the time you invest matters greatly. Look at their last earnings call. They specifically cited "player engagement" as a metric.

[Sansnom]

in the last week Jaylock is back to machine gun thread creation output rate. seems J have a lot of free at the moment

He always makes time for LFR "discussion".

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The thing is I don't FEEL like I'm on the "receiving end" when it happens (and it does happen) cuz I'm not a close minded little shit who wants everybody to lie to me so I can feel better. Your small accomplishments are small accomplishments, get over yourself.

Yet you feel the need to throw insults around. I really doubt you have been at the "receiving end" in the same manner others have.

[Sylvaeres]

@Cassidin i disagree with the skill level differentiation for let and normal, to me they're basically one in the same with their only real difference being organizatiob

[Swalload]

He always makes time for LFR "discussion".

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Yet you feel the need to throw insults around. I really doubt you have been at the "receiving end" in the same manner others have.

No I haven't been on the receiving end in that way, cuz I don't live a life where I put all my efforts into staying wrong. I learn, evolve and move on. Which is what people should do instead of instantly being offended when someone points out their flaws.

People wouldn't be "on the receiving end" if they just stopped for a moment and think about what they're doing, and what things really are beyond their biased belief.

[epLe]

Lorewise, Yes you have seen all the content by doing LFR, but no you have not completed all the current "Raid content".

For the %'ages you farted out, each difficulty have to represent 25% of the total, or represent the % of players actually doing said content.
Which would make LFR a much more significant piece of the raiding than Mythic difficulty.

[Deleted]

I PVP a lot and I pet battle/collect. Raiding is not so much my end game. I'm happy wow offers so much end game content that I can log in and be generally entertained for an hour or 2 whenever i want and I'm not limited to being forced to have those 2 hours on X night from Y-Z hours.

This, the game has evolved past raiding and raiding isn't the be all and end all anymore and that upsets some people for whatever reason.

[bungie]

The LFR crowd are their core subscribers. I don't really understand what you are talking about when you say "Those mounts/pets/titles are all extra perks that aren't required to have in the game, so why not let them be a reward for those who actually put time and effort into the game?" LFR offers none of that.

Which is why it was perfect in like HM and shit when you couldn't even get tier from LFR, AKA how it should be. In LFR you get to see a garbage watered down version of the content and then that is it. You aren't a raider, you haven't completed the tier, you got the see the content but that's about it.

[Osmeric]

Which is why it was perfect in like HM and shit when you couldn't even get tier from LFR, AKA how it should be.

That would be perfect if the game's reason for existence was to deliver rewards according to some strict moral calculus.

But that's not the case. The reason for the game's existence is to make money. Gaming puritanism of the kind you represent doesn't do that very well.

[Frostymoon]

I say it really just depends on what you as an individual are trying to achieve from raid content. Everyone has their own goals.

[Deadite]

WRONG! You obviously don't know anything about an MMO's business model if you think they don't care about time investment. This is the SOLE REASON why so many big MMOs switched over to F2P from a P2P model like SWTOR/Wild Star/AoC/EQ2/etc it's because they want to have people playing the game. MMOs depend on people to be playing to drive their economies and their PvE/PvP. If there's no one there to group with/talk with/buy from/sell to/guild with/PvP with/PvE with then what's the purpose of playing an MMO?

In order for an MMO to be successful they need to actually have people logging in and playing the game or else it would be a desert town and cause a cascading effect of boredom resulting in less and less players playing.

WoW's success would seem to counter your point. It is one of the worst mmos ever for content. Over a year can go past with no content. If Blizzard wanted people logging in they would have stuck out some content. All they want is for you to buy the expansion and get a few months here and there from people. They flat out said it before when they said the sub base was cyclical.

[ComputerNerd]

If you consider that completion, then why single out LFR given how ANY difficulty before mythic is that.
It is just petty to have this distinction that LFR is bad for reasons that equally apply to other difficulties, until you don't want them to.