New legendary for Havoc?

[Kash6]

New ptr notes mention this in the item changes:

Chaos Theory (New) Blade Dance has a 15% chance to grant you Chaos Blades for 6 sec.

Sounds pretty nice, would actually give us something to keep an eye on in our rotation. Wonder what the ppm will be and if it has an internal cd.

[Occar]

Looks like it's a cloak too. At least they went with an unused slot.

[Otrew]

So the new 2 bis are gonna be the new ones?

[SnorlaxJeng]

Now do people still want to say haste isn't going to be 2nd on the stat weight after critical? Because the BiS combo would be Chaos Theory + Delusion of Grandeur.

During meta Blade Dance CD will go under 6s, so being able to maintain meta longer pushes the proc value up. Even taking the modest value an assume it is on a ppm, which it isn't it would have a 1.5 ppm which equates to 9s averages around 3.7% damage increase from the buff itself only, not accounting AA swings.

30% haste would see Blade Dance at around 7.5s CD, if we play around with Bloodthirsty Instinct 885 which is equivalent to 2000 haste, your average Blade Dance is 7s pre Meta.

Demonic will also enable you to push for meta to cloak buff time.


Reason why we wouldn't take new Legendary rings is unlike other classes. DH values Crit higher than Agility and to some extend with this new cloak, I believe, will make haste even stronger than Agi due to the compounding effects.

[Sandraudiga]

Not sure about delusions, being able to have First Blood and Chaos Cleave together sounds pretty sweet.

This is just a gut reaction but I think it will depend on how strong fel barrage is with the changes. If we are stuck with chaos blades as set and forget again then I think lowering meta cooldown so it doesn't sync will make shoulders not quite as good as they seem.

Also keep in mind that using either the new cloak or the shoulders prevents the use of 4 set t20 with 2 set t19, which may or may not be the way to go depending on titan forging and t19 nerfs. The fury cost reduction of first blood was reverted back to 20, so fury generation took a hit this ptr as well.

While I doubt it, maybe shoulders and cloak using a demonic build might be the way to go. I'll wait for the theory crafters to work it out.

[SnorlaxJeng]

Chaos Blade built with the new cloak would only have a place if the proc adds it's duration timer onto the base 18s. But I'm afraid that it will go the same as Meta + Demonic where:

EB > Meta > EB = 46s Meta ; Proc > CB > Proc = 30s CB
Meta > EB > EB = 38s Meta ; CB > Proc > Proc = 26s CB

But either way it goes. I know for sure I'd be maintaining major secondary Crit and minor secondary Haste to reap the most benefit should I get my hands on this cloak.

[Sarevokcz]

Now do people still want to say haste isn't going to be 2nd on the stat weight after critical? Because the BiS combo would be Chaos Theory + Delusion of Grandeur.

During meta Blade Dance CD will go under 6s, so being able to maintain meta longer pushes the proc value up. Even taking the modest value an assume it is on a ppm, which it isn't it would have a 1.5 ppm which equates to 9s averages around 3.7% damage increase from the buff itself only, not accounting AA swings.

30% haste would see Blade Dance at around 7.5s CD, if we play around with Bloodthirsty Instinct 885 which is equivalent to 2000 haste, your average Blade Dance is 7s pre Meta.

Demonic will also enable you to push for meta to cloak buff time.


Reason why we wouldn't take new Legendary rings is unlike other classes. DH values Crit higher than Agility and to some extend with this new cloak, I believe, will make haste even stronger than Agi due to the compounding effects.

several problems.
for one, we dont know the interaction with chaos blades, does it add the 6s? does it overwrite? doesnt do anything?
second, you would need very high BTI, 885 bti isnt even close to 2000 haste average, like at all, and does have significantly less agi than what trinkets will give in 7.2.5.
third, no matter how we look at it, it is a tier slot, even if t19 2p setbonus isnt spectacular, its still worth something, especially since they readjusted first blood cost to 20 fury again

the legendary sounds fine on paper and haste theorycraft is nice and all, but I dont think its gonna be that good

[SnorlaxJeng]

several problems.
for one, we dont know the interaction with chaos blades, does it add the 6s? does it overwrite? doesnt do anything?
second, you would need very high BTI, 885 bti isnt even close to 2000 haste average, like at all, and does have significantly less agi than what trinkets will give in 7.2.5.
third, no matter how we look at it, it is a tier slot, even if t19 2p setbonus isnt spectacular, its still worth something, especially since they readjusted first blood cost to 20 fury again

the legendary sounds fine on paper and haste theorycraft is nice and all, but I dont think its gonna be that good

I don't think it would overwrite. I'll hand Blizzard the benefit of the doubt that they are not that incompetent. But like most CD cooldowns the most feasible line of thought is that CB during a proc only adds 8s to the timer and subsequent proc is wasted.

As for trinket BTI for equivalent level will always be superior, if it is to compare itself with ToS trinket it has to be scaled to their level or at least around 10-15 ilvl variances. T19 2p bonus argument is a paradox you just made with BTI, but for discussion sake. Yes T19 2p will be invaluable during the early stages where possible fury consumption is higher than generation. This problem will start to fall off as we get high ToS ilvls.

An additional scenario is, to deal with higher generation than consumption we will be going back to Demon Blades, which with this cloak proc makes all hits land guaranteeing steady flow of fury for it's duration, pushing Demonic for more Meta time along with Grandeur. And with the balance slightly tipped to not have overflow of fury First Blood can be dropped for Chaos Cleave.

One cannot just see haste as just a generator or fitting more spells in a time frame. Accounting all things, Haste value skyrockets along with Critical the more we are able to in Meta/Proc Chaos Blades. The true potential revolve around being in Meta form all the time.

[Extremity]

So it's looking like the two new legendaries will be the must-haves, no? A chance for Chaos Blades on Blade Dance (something that will be our #1 priority anyways) along with First Blood in addition to Bloodlet or Chaos Cleave?

I'm wondering about specs at this point. Will I still take Chaos Blades? If I have a chance to get it now and then anyways, is the talent as valuable compared to the others?

I'm also trying to think of a situation where another legendary would be more valuable than having First Blood + another from that tier but am having trouble.

[Krille]

So it's looking like the two new legendaries will be the must-haves, no? A chance for Chaos Blades on Blade Dance (something that will be our #1 priority anyways) along with First Blood in addition to Bloodlet or Chaos Cleave?

I'm wondering about specs at this point. Will I still take Chaos Blades? If I have a chance to get it now and then anyways, is the talent as valuable compared to the others?

I'm also trying to think of a situation where another legendary would be more valuable than having First Blood + another from that tier but am having trouble.

Sims has been made with a T20 profile. DoG and Chaos Theory is about 70k dps above DoG and Sephuz, DoG and the new ring is like 5-6th place. But the cloak is BiS by quite a margin. The talent ring is mediocre, worse than Angers (even with T20). Crit > Haste > Agi > Vers > Mastery atm with these legendaries/items.

[Lemurion]

Sims has been made with a T20 profile. DoG and Chaos Theory is about 70k dps above DoG and Sephuz, DoG and the new ring is like 5-6th place. But the cloak is BiS by quite a margin. The talent ring is mediocre, worse than Angers (even with T20). Crit > Haste > Agi > Vers > Mastery atm with these legendaries/items.

I was in the ptr a moment ago testing this cloak and I got like 1 proc after a 5 min fight. Is it bugged, is it me just being extremly unlucky or is just not Worth it?

[Krille]

I was in the ptr a moment ago testing this cloak and I got like 1 proc after a 5 min fight. Is it bugged, is it me just being extremly unlucky or is just not Worth it?

Probably just very unlucky. But it's currently bugged and yea you guessed it right, same bug as Bladedancers Grace and T20 4pc had. It doesnt proc on Death Sweep, but it's already been reported to Blizzard.

I did some tries with it and got 3 procs in a row, couldn't stop laughing, stupid shit tbh xD

[Shamed]

Interesting legendary, kind of weird they would give us a talent as a proc? Why don't they just give us Chaos blades baseline and give us another 110 talent then? zzz.

[Soulfròst]

Sims has been made with a T20 profile. DoG and Chaos Theory is about 70k dps above DoG and Sephuz, DoG and the new ring is like 5-6th place. But the cloak is BiS by quite a margin. The talent ring is mediocre, worse than Angers (even with T20). Crit > Haste > Agi > Vers > Mastery atm with these legendaries/items.

The thing is, we have yet to receive clarification regarding whether or not the new rings will apply to the 2 Legion Legendary equipped rule. All the tooltips so far point towards exclusion from that rule, but it's still anyone's guess. If the rings don't fall under the rule then we could have some really interesting setups.

[shade3891]

The thing is, we have yet to receive clarification regarding whether or not the new rings will apply to the 2 Legion Legendary equipped rule. All the tooltips so far point towards exclusion from that rule, but it's still anyone's guess. If the rings don't fall under the rule then we could have some really interesting setups.

Well i think its intentional by blizzard, when you get one of these new leggys you are happy and excited and you have something to look forward too. So expect the cap to stick at 2.

[Deleted]

The proc will work in Demonic spec too?

[Extremity]

The proc will work in Demonic spec too?

While I can't say for sure, I'd assume so - I highly doubt it will require you have the Chaos Blades talent selected, although I guess it's *possible*.

[SnorlaxJeng]

While I can't say for sure, I'd assume so - I highly doubt it will require you have the Chaos Blades talent selected, although I guess it's *possible*.

Selection of Chaos Blades is as stated above how the proc interacts with the on-use in the case of duration stacking. As for Demonic spec, my opinion is based off Demonic spec with Demon Blades.

[Nardale]

The thing is, we have yet to receive clarification regarding whether or not the new rings will apply to the 2 Legion Legendary equipped rule. All the tooltips so far point towards exclusion from that rule, but it's still anyone's guess. If the rings don't fall under the rule then we could have some really interesting setups.

I keep hearing this being discussed. Why do people think the new rings will be excluded from the 2 equipped legendary rule? They have the text on the PTR right now and act as you would expect.

[SnorlaxJeng]

I keep hearing this being discussed. Why do people think the new rings will be excluded from the 2 equipped legendary rule? They have the text on the PTR right now and act as you would expect.

Blizzard is trending on unknown waters. Providing a new talent might be too much of a DPS increase so they are trying to balance it by lowering secondary stat. But if anything the current secondary stat would make more sense if it is excluded, along with other pointers of how the ring is being named.

Nevertheless, such sense while the Ret/Pally community has it. Whether Blizzard will see eye to eye with us is a different story all together.