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    Deleted

    Zbigniew Brzezinski, US national security adviser, 1928-2017

    Source: https://www.ft.com/content/602a3dda-...6-896b95f30f58




    If the template for the job of White House national security adviser had been written in the 1970s, two men, Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski, would have served as the models. Both were born in central Europe, had distinguished academic credentials, impeccable political connections and wrote extensively about the state of the world. And both were able to practice what they preached in print as the right hand men of the occupant of the Oval office.

    Brzezinski, who has died at the age of 89, was far from his predecessor’s doppelganger, but his record in office can stand fair comparison. On his watch, under President Jimmy Carter, the US normalised relations with China, severing ties with Taiwan in the process, signed the Salt Two arms treaty with the Soviet Union, brought Egypt and Israel together in the Camp David accords and concluded the Panama Canal treaty, ceding control to Panama. In each decision he was an influential player.

    On the downside, the US was caught flatfooted by the Khomeini revolution in Iran, allowing the deposed Shah refuge in the US, which eventually led to the Iran hostage crisis, a factor in Mr Carter’s election defeat in 1980. Brzezinski was also instrumental in arming the Afghan mujahideen after the Soviet invasion of 1979, a policy that came back to haunt the US two decades later (to prove his point, flamboyantly, he was photographed in the Khyber Pass pointing a rifle across the border).

    From their White House vantage point, both men had notoriously poor relations with the state department, respectively headed by William Rogers and Cyrus Vance, whom they viewed as staid and unimaginative. Vance eventually resigned in protest over the abortive hostage rescue mission in 1980, an operation Brzezinski actively supported.

    But both Kissinger and Brzezinski were known for their world views and doctrines, seeing the globe as a global chess board around which the US and USSR moved pieces. No national security adviser since them has had the temerity to venture so far, preferring roles as the facilitators of policies rather than as their intellectual authors.

    Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski, born in Warsaw on March 28, 1928, was much influenced by his upbringing. His family was Polish nobility and his father, Tadeusz, a diplomat posted to Berlin, Moscow and finally Canada. From the first two of those postings the son had indelible first-hand experiences of the rise of Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin’s notorious purges.

    Canada provided him refuge from the invasion of Poland in 1939 and the world war that first engulfed Europe. He was brought up in Montreal, educated at McGill University and subsequently moved through the finest American universities, including Harvard and Columbia, before his final association as a professor at Johns Hopkins. He became an American citizen in 1958.

    Just as Dr Kissinger had hitched his star to Governor Nelson Rockefeller of New York before gravitating to Richard Nixon, Brzezinski’s first important political connection was the Lyndon Johnson campaign in 1964. He then advised Hubert Humphrey four years later, but he struck pay dirt with the initially improbable presidential bid of Mr Carter, then a relatively obscure former southern governor from Georgia. The candidate’s intelligence and ambitions, allied to his inexperience in foreign policy, were the sort of clay which Brzezinski thought he could mould into a coherent global view.

    That, predictably, brought him into conflict with Vance, a diplomat of much distinction but one more inclined to find accommodations with Moscow than provoke it. The two worked well together on the Salt Two Treaty but too often the national security adviser’s impulsiveness rubbed the secretary of state up the wrong way. So did his habit of maintaining separate relations with the likes of Anatoly Dobrynin, the Soviet ambassador in Washington, independent of the state department.

    In another departure, hardly surprising given his own background and his president’s natural inclinations, Brzezinski placed human rights far higher up the policy agenda than had previously been the case. That constituted a significant departure from standard US policy, which tended to tolerate, as in General Pinochet’s Chile, human rights abuses in return for fealty to the US.

    After leaving office, he became, not unlike Dr Kissinger, a prolific commentator and author on foreign policy, but without ever quite achieving his predecessor’s level of access. He broke with the Democratic Party and endorsed President George H W Bush in 1988 and was critical of Bill Clinton’s long reluctance to intervene in the Balkans in the 1990s. But he was a fierce critic of the younger President Bush’s war in Iraq and fulsome in his praise of Barack Obama, even though he was never admitted into his policy circle.

    An engaging conversationalist and avid tennis player, he is survived by his wife, the sculptor Emilie Benes, two sons and a daughter, Mika, the TV news host, who announced his death on Friday.
    TL;DR Master of the Cold War diplomacy has passed away, pay your respect plebs.

  2. #2
    Once upon a time when American wasn't ran by angry 4 year olds. RIP.

  3. #3
    On the downside, the US was caught flatfooted by the Khomeini revolution in Iran, allowing the deposed Shah refuge in the US, which eventually led to the Iran hostage crisis, a factor in Mr Carter’s election defeat in 1980. Brzezinski was also instrumental in arming the Afghan mujahideen after the Soviet invasion of 1979, a policy that came back to haunt the US two decades later (to prove his point, flamboyantly, he was photographed in the Khyber Pass pointing a rifle across the border).
    The world is a shittier place thanks to these accomplishments of his.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi Batman View Post
    Sounds like a euphemism for real life. We throw money at the rich, in hopes that we will someday be rich, and then we get hookers to piss on us. That's what trickle down economics really is.

  4. #4
    The US gave Kissinger control of like 1/4th of Germany when he was like 22 years old but it worked out well, Kissinger liked Germans. He got to talk to actual generals who decided to support Hitler. Look up some of his interviews if you're interested in that time.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    Once upon a time when American wasn't ran by angry 4 year olds. RIP.
    Even in a RiP thread?? For shame...


    Ever back to topic, damn near 90 years old.

  6. #6
    May you not rest in piece.

    Good Riddance.

  7. #7
    Banned Haven's Avatar
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    Probably the most distinguished russophobe in this world feeds the worms? Good riddance.

  8. #8
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Some quotes from him:

    "[American exceptionalism] is a reaction to the inability of people to understand global complexity or important issues like American energy dependency. Therefore, they search for simplistic sources of comfort and clarity. And the people that they are now selecting to be, so to speak, the spokespersons of their anxieties are, in most cases, stunningly ignorant."

    "We have a large public that is very ignorant about world affairs and very susceptible to simplistic slogans by candidates who appear out of nowhere, have no track record, but mouth appealing slogans."

    "This is a highly motivated, good country. It is driven by good motives. But it is also a country with an extremely simplistic understanding of world affairs, and with still a high confidence in America’s capacity to prevail, by force if necessary. (...) This is a country of good emotions, but poor knowledge and little sophistication about the world."

    "In the technotronic society the trend would seem to be towards the aggregation of the individual support of millions of uncoordinated citizens, easily within the reach of magnetic and attractive personalities effectively exploiting the latest communications techniques to manipulate emotions and control reason."
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  9. #9
    Interesting thing to note, Brzezinski fled Poland because of WWII and he's Jewish. Sebastian Gorka (One of Trump's advisors) is widely known to be part of the "Order of Vitéz" a Right wing group that his father was also a part of; who rounded Jews and "Communists" up in Hungary and Poland for the Germans to send to concentration camps. Gorka nor his Father appear to have participated in that aspect, but that is what the Order is known for.

    I believe he even signs his name Sebastian V. Gorka (the V isn't part of his name, it's to represent his allegiance to the Order of Vitéz.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Gorka
    Last edited by Glnger; 2017-05-27 at 07:49 PM.
    It's been a while actually since I've received a message from scrapbot...need to drink more i guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Butter Emails View Post
    Trump is a complete shitbag that's draining the country's coffers to stuff his own.
    It must be a day ending in Y.

  10. #10
    I guess best that could be said here is to paraphrase known saying about science - "World politics improves one funeral at the time".

  11. #11
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Some quotes from him:

    "[American exceptionalism] is a reaction to the inability of people to understand global complexity or important issues like American energy dependency. Therefore, they search for simplistic sources of comfort and clarity. And the people that they are now selecting to be, so to speak, the spokespersons of their anxieties are, in most cases, stunningly ignorant."

    "We have a large public that is very ignorant about world affairs and very susceptible to simplistic slogans by candidates who appear out of nowhere, have no track record, but mouth appealing slogans."

    "This is a highly motivated, good country. It is driven by good motives. But it is also a country with an extremely simplistic understanding of world affairs, and with still a high confidence in America’s capacity to prevail, by force if necessary. (...) This is a country of good emotions, but poor knowledge and little sophistication about the world."

    "In the technotronic society the trend would seem to be towards the aggregation of the individual support of millions of uncoordinated citizens, easily within the reach of magnetic and attractive personalities effectively exploiting the latest communications techniques to manipulate emotions and control reason."
    All of it is true, isn't it? I could not agree more.

  12. #12
    RIP.

    A true American hero.

  13. #13
    This fellow is begging for a drop of water on his tongue right now. Sucks to be him.

  14. #14
    RIP a Giant. Arming the Mujaheddin hit the Soviets where it hurt. We could use his wisdom in years ahead when we punish Russia for 2016.

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Berengil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    RIP a Giant. Arming the Mujaheddin hit the Soviets where it hurt. We could use his wisdom in years ahead when we punish Russia for 2016.
    True. It kinda bit us in the butt later, though.
    " The guilt of an unnecessary war is terrible." --- President John Adams
    " America goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy." --- President John Quincy Adams
    " Our Federal Union! It must be preserved!" --- President Andrew Jackson

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Berengil View Post
    True. It kinda bit us in the butt later, though.
    The Soviet Union was an existential threat to the United States. It was one of the greatest threats to human freedom ever to emerge. Destroying the Soviet Union was worth essentially any cost. The United States and the West' victory over the Russians and Communism was the most significant political change to occur in Eurasia since the fall of the Roman Empire.

    Islamic Terrorism is not in the same league. Not remotely. And any "blow back" pales in comparison to what was gained by stabbing the invincible aura of the Red Army through the heart.

    The Russians in the second decade of the 21st century are trying to stand up again. We need to consolidate our grandparent's victory and make sure they don't. They lost a 50 year war for the fate of the world and losing wars has consequences. Brzezinski's generation slew the Soviet Union. We must honor them by chopping up it's successor so it can never again be a threat to us or the world.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    The Soviet Union was an existential threat to the United States. It was one of the greatest threats to human freedom ever to emerge. Destroying the Soviet Union was worth essentially any cost. The United States and the West' victory over the Russians and Communism was the most significant political change to occur in Eurasia since the fall of the Roman Empire.

    Islamic Terrorism is not in the same league. Not remotely. And any "blow back" pales in comparison to what was gained by stabbing the invincible aura of the Red Army through the heart.

    The Russians in the second decade of the 21st century are trying to stand up again. We need to consolidate our grandparent's victory and make sure they don't. They lost a 50 year war for the fate of the world and losing wars has consequences. Brzezinski's generation slew the Soviet Union. We must honor them by chopping up it's successor so it can never again be a threat to us or the world.
    Hannity is that you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi Batman View Post
    Sounds like a euphemism for real life. We throw money at the rich, in hopes that we will someday be rich, and then we get hookers to piss on us. That's what trickle down economics really is.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Skandulous View Post
    Hannity is that you?
    How is anything I said even remotely similar to something Hannity would say. He's a Trumpkin. To those people, the "Islamosfascist" *snicker* threat resembles a Cyborg Godzilla Armed with nuclear weapons.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    The Soviet Union was an existential threat to the United States. It was one of the greatest threats to human freedom ever to emerge.
    Wasn't it the other way around? The US was a threat to the Soviets as the US wanted to stop the spread of communism? Trying to destroy a system other peoples chose for themselves seems like a threat to freedom to me.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    How is anything I said even remotely similar to something Hannity would say. He's a Trumpkin. To those people, the "Islamosfascist" *snicker* threat resembles a Cyborg Godzilla Armed with nuclear weapons.
    I was more talking about the fear mongering he employs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi Batman View Post
    Sounds like a euphemism for real life. We throw money at the rich, in hopes that we will someday be rich, and then we get hookers to piss on us. That's what trickle down economics really is.

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