It's time to accept that Legion is doing better than the naysayers think.

[Hctaz]

It's a thing that a lot of people simply can't be bothered with because they won't get gear for themselves, and I think the -forged system provides an incentive. We have a lock in the guild who's 900 ilvl, and last night he got an upgrade from normal Trilliax because it was warforged. The only issue--and the reason I am neutral about this--is that our newbie lock missed out on the gear due to dice rolls.

Ehhh.. but it's such an awful system. It encourages grinding and farming way too many things. If you want a better version of some trinket in Nighthold you don't just keep killing that boss on Mythic. You do it on Mythic... and heroic... and normal... and then LFR is where the 860 version titanforges up to 915 so it's finally an upgrade. It just shouldn't be like that. Your bracers are 915 and you want 925? Well better start farming the one M+ dungeon that drops the bracers with the best stats...

I just feel like the -forged system has ruined a lot of the new features for me like M+. It should be something that's optional but still drops decentish gear. If the -forged system wasn't in place then it would work precisely as intended: an alternative path to gearing your characters that is not raid related. Raiders will still do them once a week and maybe want to push higher and higher keys for fun, but they wouldn't feel any incentive to grind out a dungeon hoping for 925s simply because they wouldn't drop. M+ gear at the moment is roughly on par with heroic of the current raiding tier. That's perfect for an alternative source of gearing. It isn't too strong so raiders can get the best gear from the activity they need it for but it's very close being only one difficulty tier behind.

[Osmeric]

Can't not do that. Mythic raids are tuned around certain shit.

Like I said, the people who don't like this expansion are the top few percent. Blizzard pretty clearly sent the message you aren't going to be as much the favored children as you had been in the past. Other game systems make you feel like you have to grind? Too bad, so sad.

[Hctaz]

Like I said, the people who don't like this expansion are the top few percent. Blizzard pretty clearly sent the message you aren't going to be as much the favored children as you had been in the past. Other game systems make you feel like you have to grind? Too bad, so sad.

Eh with all the top guilds quitting progression raiding I expect Blizzard to completely flip a lot of these things around. I'm not really that worried. They just can't do it this expansion. The funny thing is that they didn't send the message that top players aren't going to be special, they've sent the message that NOBODY is special. Just look at all the new legendary items being added even though the community as a whole largely dislikes the system. I know plenty of casual players who dislike getting shitty legendary items just as much as the hardcore but Blizzard literally doesn't give a fuck and keeps adding more. So none of us are being catered to anymore I suppose.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

I think it's safe to say Legion has been a massive success so far, and it only looks like it will be getting better in the weeks and months ahead.

Wrong.

Just because you say something, doesn't make it true. No matter how much the President of the United States wishes that were true.

[Phuongvi]

"Off-peak hours when I try to que"(insert tard voice).

Really? Guess what. OFF-PEAK-HOURS.

Is that how you judge a product?

Christ.

My gues he's juding the product the same way the OP's juding the product with sources like :Every person that I have played with in the last several months have said this is the best expansion since TBC or WotLK.

Welcome to Jaylock thread

[Deleted]

Cant think of another expansion which had worse class balance than Legion. Atleast in vanilla and TBC you knew certain specs were unplayable, but nowadays Devs lie to your face.

[elaina]

That is not enough. We would need to get at least a free state-of-the art gaming-PC sent to our home addresses and 100,000 of your local currency transferred to your bank accounts. That's the LEAST Blizzard can do for the freaking EUR 13 I pay every single month.

Seriously, the entitlement some people have is just astounding. You do know that most of the content up till 7.1 was more or less paid for by buying the expac. Now you want basically the same for free.

Yes, the Legionfall quests were a bit of a let-down, and they probably could have designed a quest-chain similar to the Suramar one, but to expect a massive new zone (or 3), a detailed city like in Suramar (that probably took a share of the total development time for Legion itself) AND a new raid with more bosses than we had before is just ridiculous.

Please get a grip on reality. The only way those additions could EVER be affordable would be if it was offered more like DLC like in other games for money. Personally I would like that, but unfortunately, with the entitlement going around the world, it would probably lack the necessary demand because "we want it for free".

Previous expansions have had 3 or even 4 raid tiers. Stop acting like future content isn't included in the game price for a 12yr old game we pay subscription for monthly anyway to keep it alive.

It's not about entitlement -- it's about producing a stellar product and what it would objectively take to make the game epic and not dogshit like 7.2 has been so far. As for "how are they going to have time to do this?" The same way they've done it before. If they haven't figured out how to rotate content teams to keep things fresh by now, then I don't think they know what they're doing.

My point: in order to "make up" for the content void of 7.2, I would hope that means they are doubling down on resources for what is to come to make Legion's finale incredible. And hopefully that doesn't mean phoning in the entire rest of the expansion and "trying to make the next one #100%" because they've done this before, and get so much shit for it year after year from the player base, and then Blizzard repeatedly says they aren't going to do again. Legion is their baby, they should see that Argus is done properly and doesn't become another Broken Shore meme.

Furthermore, to front-end all of the creative and detailed effort and then largely ignore the next two tiers would be tremendously stupid on their parts.

[MagusHenosis]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that it's not everyone's favorite expansion, chief. Look at the forums, look at the OTHER POSTS IN THIS THREAD, genius.

Wow, and you asked for data? LOL.

You are twisting words around here, but that's just what you do right???

There are a LOT of happy players, but you were trying to act like it's not one of the better expansions in that way.

[Jaylock]

after 10 years playing this is the worst expansion for me (no longer sub for first time). I just hope for a radical change on next expansion away from legion style

Why don't you like this expansion? What caused you to "unsub" for the first time in 10 years?

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that it's not everyone's favorite expansion, chief. Look at the forums, look at the OTHER POSTS IN THIS THREAD, genius.

Wow, and you asked for data? LOL.

Riiiiiiiight, since the forum population represents all the players in WoW... It's not like the forum population represents a tiny fraction of the player base and this one in particular is filled with jaded haters who cant seem to let their ex-girlfriend go.

[Jaylock]

You talk like your sample size isn't a joke, either. And I quote you, from your OP:

GOSH, every person you've played with must represent such a VAST portion of the playerbase. So tell me, sir, how nice is it to have double standards? If you even do reply to this display of hypocrisy, you don't need to. Most people know you're about as fake as Velveeta cheese.

Velveeta cheese is delicious Especially when you cut it up into tiny cubes, throw it into a deep pan, throw some salsa into it and bring it to a slight boil for 10 seconds then take it off the heat. Makes for great dipping sauce for some tortilla chips. Its a great side to have at parties and other social occasions.

In game sentiment is worth more than out of game forum hate from jaded, washed up players who are anti-wow. I'd rather get real perspective from real playing players than someone from the likes of you any day. So while my "sample size" is small, it is more representative of the ACTUAL feelings of the players.

Thanks, and try again.

[Deleted]

Are we playing the same game? They litteraly destroyed the pvp.

[Guyviroth]

Ehhh.. but it's such an awful system. It encourages grinding and farming way too many things. If you want a better version of some trinket in Nighthold you don't just keep killing that boss on Mythic. You do it on Mythic... and heroic... and normal... and then LFR is where the 860 version titanforges up to 915 so it's finally an upgrade. It just shouldn't be like that. Your bracers are 915 and you want 925? Well better start farming the one M+ dungeon that drops the bracers with the best stats...

I just feel like the -forged system has ruined a lot of the new features for me like M+. It should be something that's optional but still drops decentish gear. If the -forged system wasn't in place then it would work precisely as intended: an alternative path to gearing your characters that is not raid related. Raiders will still do them once a week and maybe want to push higher and higher keys for fun, but they wouldn't feel any incentive to grind out a dungeon hoping for 925s simply because they wouldn't drop. M+ gear at the moment is roughly on par with heroic of the current raiding tier. That's perfect for an alternative source of gearing. It isn't too strong so raiders can get the best gear from the activity they need it for but it's very close being only one difficulty tier behind.

Disclaimer: The use of "you", "your" and "you're" are in a general sense, and not specifically directed at you.

If you're doing Mythic and you're raiding things as low as normal and LFR hoping for the slim-as-my-dick chance for a 920+ titanforged piece of gear, then that's your fault, not the system's fault. It's the same principle of the AP grind. If you're constantly farming every single piece of AP, be it from WQ's, M+ and raiding just so you can burn through it as quick as you can, but you become completely burned out and end up disliking it, then that's your fault.

It's like me burning through 5 different characters every week in Black Temple trying to get the warglaives for when Timewalking BT hits. Yeah it's a pain, yeah it's burning me out, but at the end of the day I can't blame the system for that, only myself for putting myself through it.

Perhaps players should start taking responsibility for their own obsessive compulsive shit instead of blaming the system because "I have to" or some similar stupid reason.

[emilylorange]

Perhaps players should start taking responsibility for their own obsessive compulsive shit instead of blaming the system because "I have to" or some similar stupid reason.

lol nah the game devs get to take some responsibility for their shit systems, no matter how many white knights try to take the blow for 'em.

[Guyviroth]

lol nah the game devs get to take some responsibility for their shit systems, no matter how many white knights try to take the blow for 'em.

Probably the only system that I can agree with this sentiment is the legendary system.

[Grimnakh]

If you define massive success to be slightly better than WoD by Blizzard's own admittance than sure. I think we all know that early WoW set a very high bar which Legion has not come close too at all save maybe for the first month.

Wod did well early in the expansion, so we dont need to be that far ahead at this point, as long as the content keeps coming theyre likely to retain subs, and then by the end of the expansion if it does that itll be way ahead of wods overall numbers which would be a massive success.

[BiggestNoob]

They just reduced the number of CRZ phases, which means they're desperate for people to think the game is incredibly populated. It's a pretty shitty move, because this game is very poorly designed for player contention.

[Deleted]

Why don't you like this expansion? What caused you to "unsub" for the first time in 10 years?

Too much (mandatory) grinding for mythic raiding. I'm perfectly ok with grinding for silly things (mounts, pets, toys, ...) but this expansion was a constant mandatory grinding for raiders, it didn't feel like a game anymore, more like a job without rewards. Like I said I'm ok if I have to invest 100 hours or 1 year farming one boss to get something that I want (e.g. a mount) but being forced to farm (legendaries/ap/titanforged) constantly to be able to do mythic raiding properly (and if I don't grind I will feel bad with myself and with my character because I know I could had done more), I'm out.

At the beginning of MoP dailies were a bad thing and raiders were forced to do them for the first... 1-2 months? That was bad (no the dailies themselves but being forced to do it so you could get the gear and recipes), Legion is that on steroids

[Martinezzz]

There is no PVP in legion

[Lightbull]

I love Legion to death, but there are a few issues I have with it. Might as well post them here since everyone else is.

World PvP
I've always hated mass WPvP, with 40+ players fighting another 40+ players, hasn't changed in Legion, and the TM vs SS Brawl is torture.

But my main concern is 1v1. I used to be a duel hero back in MoP and I loved it. I was able to 1v2 too. With the reduced utility (not arguing against this, this was a needed change), 1v1 duels aren't really possible anymore aside from a few classes. Most duels are just "whoever does the most damage wins", there's no skill involved. Hoping Blizzard is able to find a way to make it feel better next expansion.

Also, there's a big focus on open world content in Legion, so it would make sense if World PvP got some love.

Alt Unfriendly
This horse is beaten and long dead, so I won't go into detail. There are a few issues that caused this, but legendaries in particular make it feel awful to try and play another character. There's also content that is made infinitely easier with certain legendaries, which I don't like. Player power is decided by RNG in this case.

World Quests
This didn't hit me until just recently, since I like doing World Quests. But I feel like many WQs are useless, I just stick to the ones that reward Artifact Power. I feel like it would be better just to have several daily hubs, maybe one in each zone.

[Heeresman]

"Massive success so far"

Yes. Ok. Sure.