US Pulls out of Paris Climate Accords

[Halyon]

A big reason why the US is not so polluted is strict government regulation of pollution. The Clean Air Act is such a major success no sane person advocates its elimination.

And what evidence do you have that Trump is sane? Everything points to the contrary. Pulling out of the Paris agreement for example...

[Garnier Fructis]

Why should we give billions to Congo or some other third world shithole. Make them pay for it themselves. My tax money is supposed to support MY country. IF Congo cant afford the new standards, then the other nations should band together to embargo any products not meeting the new standards. Im sick of supporting others at my expense

Because the contribution to climate change from 'third world shitholes' does not stay in those countries. It affects everyone, the U.S. included, because the funny thing about nature is that it doesn't give a rat's ass about how isolated you want to be from the rest of the world.

Your choices are to help them mitigate now, or spend even more on adaptation later down the line.

[Endus]

Because the contribution to climate change from 'third world shitholes' does not stay in those countries. It affects everyone, the U.S. included, because the funny thing about nature is that it doesn't give a rat's ass about how isolated you want to be from the rest of the world.

Your choices are to help them mitigate now, or spend even more on adaptation later down the line.

It's basically like wondering why you should help pay for a sewer system for your neighbourhood to use, when you've got a perfectly functional septic system in your own backyard (and your neighbours don't).

If you don't mind the smell from your neighbours and the raw sewage flowing past your door on the street, maybe that's an argument that makes sense to you, but it's just aggressively ignorant to pretty much anyone sane.

[Deleted]

Why should we give billions to Congo or some other third world shithole. Make them pay for it themselves. My tax money is supposed to support MY country. IF Congo cant afford the new standards, then the other nations should band together to embargo any products not meeting the new standards. Im sick of supporting others at my expense

You are aware climate change affects everybody? America isn't magically immune

[Kindria]

The Climate is changing??? no way!! We in a Global cooling pattern now or super heating? Sorry lost track of the .04% the atmosphere that is destined to kill us.

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Gotta love your analogies Endus, they are always enlightening yet fall short.

[Spectral]

Because the contribution to climate change from 'third world shitholes' does not stay in those countries. It affects everyone, the U.S. included, because the funny thing about nature is that it doesn't give a rat's ass about how isolated you want to be from the rest of the world.

Your choices are to help them mitigate now, or spend even more on adaptation later down the line.

Is there any good evidence that giving money to third-world nations and nominally earmarking it for climate mitigation does anything to reduce emissions? Given the general government structure of these countries, I'd be pretty surprised if this turned out to be an effective strategy.

[Garnier Fructis]

Is there any good evidence that giving money to third-world nations and nominally earmarking it for climate mitigation does anything to reduce emissions? Given the general government structure of these countries, I'd be pretty surprised if this turned out to be an effective strategy.

Fair point.

[Blue Minuteman]

You are aware climate change affects everybody? America isn't magically immune

He is simply willing to destroy the country in some cynically nihilistic and immature temper-tantrum about getting his way.

[Masark]

Your choices are to help them mitigate now, or spend even more on adaptation later down the line.

Orlong chooses option 3 : Scream "Fuck you, I got mine" repeatedly and die before the results come home to roost.

[Kujako]

Orlong chooses option 3 : Scream "Fuck you, I got mine" repeatedly and die before the results come home to roost.

Sad part is, there's really no choosing. The rest of the world will adapt lower emission standards and if US companies want to sell their goods to everyone else, so will we. All Trump has done is declare that we will be unwilling followers, rather than leaders.

[Endus]

Is there any good evidence that giving money to third-world nations and nominally earmarking it for climate mitigation does anything to reduce emissions? Given the general government structure of these countries, I'd be pretty surprised if this turned out to be an effective strategy.

If you mean with GHGs specifically, then no, because it's never been an issue that's had global cooperation before.

However, as I linked a few posts earlier, the Montreal Protocol did basically exactly this with regards to CFCs, however, and was pretty wildly successful. So yes; there's precedent that these kinds of programs and collaborative efforts, including funding of developing countries to offset their cost disadvantage, can have effective results and achieve their targets.

[Osmeric]

As far as I can tell we only import 24-25% of our oil but it's odd we also export some as well, our domestic production is actually pretty high.

And in particular, we export quite a lot of refined petroleum products (gasoline, diesel, gas liquids). A good chunk of imported oil is being brought in because we have excess refining capacity.

[Spectral]

If you mean with GHGs specifically, then no, because it's never been an issue that's had global cooperation before.

However, as I linked a few posts earlier, the Montreal Protocol did basically exactly this with regards to CFCs, however, and was pretty wildly successful. So yes; there's precedent that these kinds of programs and collaborative efforts, including funding of developing countries to offset their cost disadvantage, can have effective results and achieve their targets.

Sure, the agreement overall was pretty effective, that's a fair example. I'm not sure the disbursement of funds to the countries that were on the lower end of the scale was a huge part of the reduction, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Tijuana]

Ushering in a huge giant backwards step for the future of humanity.

The US emits around 15% of global emissions relating to climate change, however its policies drive much of the world via the technology it creates (or doesn't create).

At this point, we have to look to China to save us I suppose.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...deal-reports2/

So, when the US developed fracking production of natural gas, that lead to the majority of US emissions reductions, that somehow added to global emissions when we shared that technology? I don't even...but...wait...are you...what now?

Anyone else find it amusing that fracking is so hated by climate change alarmists, yet it lead to the greatest reductions in carbon emissions on record?

[NineSpine]

So, when the US developed fracking production of natural gas, that lead to the majority of US emissions reductions, that somehow added to global emissions when we shared that technology? I don't even...but...wait...are you...what now?

Anyone else find it amusing that fracking is so hated by climate change alarmists, yet it lead to the greatest reductions in carbon emissions on record?

It replaces carbon with methane, which may leave the environment faster, but is significantly more potent when it comes to the greenhouse effect.

[Tijuana]

It replaces carbon with methane, which may leave the environment faster, but is significantly more potent when it comes to the greenhouse effect.

I'm going to need a source for the notion that burning natural gas is worse than burning coal. I have literally never heard anyone say that, and climate alarmists regularly say natural gas is bad, but not as bad as coal.

[Deleted]

It's basically like wondering why you should help pay for a sewer system for your neighbourhood to use, when you've got a perfectly functional septic system in your own backyard (and your neighbours don't).

If you don't mind the smell from your neighbours and the raw sewage flowing past your door on the street, maybe that's an argument that makes sense to you, but it's just aggressively ignorant to pretty much anyone sane.

Its not even about that, that agreement doesnt make it mandatory for those 3rld world countries to do anything so theyll just pocket the money and say "can I have some more". Its a really really good thing we pulled out.

Oh and another thing. Should this not be up to the people, not a bunch of unelected hippies? It's all a snake oil scam. Assuming climate change is real, the solutions are certainly bogus and only serve to shuffle taxpayers money into the pockets of those charlatans.

[Endus]

So, when the US developed fracking production of natural gas, that lead to the majority of US emissions reductions, that somehow added to global emissions when we shared that technology? I don't even...but...wait...are you...what now?

Anyone else find it amusing that fracking is so hated by climate change alarmists, yet it lead to the greatest reductions in carbon emissions on record?

Fracking is opposed for entirely separate reasons, not the emissions profile created by the use of the fuel it produces. Conflating the two issues is just a blatant straw man.

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Its not even about that, that agreement doesnt make it mandatory for those 3rld world countries to do anything so theyll just pocket the money and say "can I have some more". Its a really really good thing we pulled out.

You're ignoring that developed countries exist and political goodwill and such is a factor. This isn't happening in a diplomatic vacuum where their actions don't matter.

Oh and another thing. Should this not be up to the people, not a bunch of unelected hippies?

It's up to governments, who are the representatives of the people. I have literally no idea where you're getting "unelected hippies" from.

It's all a snake oil scam. Assuming climate change is real, the solutions are certainly bogus and only serve to shuffle taxpayers money into the pockets of those charlatans.

Aaaand this is meritless nonsense.

[Tijuana]

Fracking is opposed for entirely separate reasons, not the emissions profile created by the use of the fuel it produces. Conflating the two issues is just a blatant straw man.

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You're ignoring that developed countries exist and political goodwill and such is a factor. This isn't happening in a diplomatic vacuum where their actions don't matter.



It's up to governments, who are the representatives of the people. I have literally no idea where you're getting "unelected hippies" from.



Aaaand this is meritless nonsense.

Please stop quoting me. I have repeatedly told you I don't want to discuss anything with you.

I have also been told saying only this, is against the rules. Therefore, I will add this comment: you are wrong and your point is lacking.

[Deleted]

It's up to governments, who are the representatives of the people. I have literally no idea where you're getting "unelected hippies" from.

EU, human rights commissions, UN and others certainly aren't. Same with certain states acting on their own against the constitution. So again whats your point.. we voted to get out, we got out of that nonsense, so cheerio-s all around.