(Spoilers) The new Lich King throne

[toiletgecko]

So far we have no evidence to the contrary, especially considering Ner'zhul's soul isn't in the helm anymore (we suppress Ner'zhul and Arthas's souls while mastering the Frost artifacts, as they were still in Frostmourne's shards).

Well since you bring up the Blades of the Fallen Prince...

"You believe that you are in control, that your will is your own. Yet you do as He commands. You exist by His whim alone. You imagine yourself to be free, but you will always be His instrument..."
Oh! Or the new "Empty inside. Just like me." while you slaughter Azeroth's defenders at his command. When Fire Mages go to get Felo'melorn, he acknowledges that he knows they want it to fight the Legion, but he has no intention of helping.

Whatever Bolvar was when he went in, in the last few years on ice he has become a very Not Nice Man. And for a guy who supposedly wants to use the Scourge "in Azeroth's defense," it's a bit fishy that so far he's had you fight the Silver Hand, the Thorignir, and the Red Dragonflight, but not strike any real blows against the Legion at all.

In short: Dude's evil, yo.

[Varitok]

The better question is, what "other plans" does he have for Acherus? In case we die?

[Thage]

Well since you bring up the Blades of the Fallen Prince...

"You believe that you are in control, that your will is your own. Yet you do as He commands. You exist by His whim alone. You imagine yourself to be free, but you will always be His instrument..."

I don't particularly consider Arthas a reliable source considering his vested interest in causing the Death Knight's will to waver enough for the blades to take over. Especially when it's just as likely the vision is an incarnation of the Death Knight's doubts the Blades jump on in an effort to take control like Frostmourne did with Arthas rather than any actual estimate of the player's free will or Bolvar's morality.

Oh! Or the new "Empty inside. Just like me." while you slaughter Azeroth's defenders at his command.

If you slaughter them. You're perfectly capable of ignoring them and taking care of business. And I never said Bolvar was inherently good anymore, just disagreed that he's evil.

When Fire Mages go to get Felo'melorn, he acknowledges that he knows they want it to fight the Legion, but he has no intention of helping.

A guy invades your home without so much as a heads-up, intending to steal your shit, I bet you'd be pretty irritated at him, too.

Whatever Bolvar was when he went in, in the last few years on ice he has become a very Not Nice Man. And for a guy who supposedly wants to use the Scourge "in Azeroth's defense," it's a bit fishy that so far he's had you fight the Silver Hand, the Thorignir, and the Red Dragonflight, but not strike any real blows against the Legion at all.

The Death Knights are the textbook example of not nice people working for the greater good. The Death Knights needed a fourth Horseman--their plan was to give Tirion a shot at getting the Legion back for merking him unceremoniously, the Silver Hand disagreed, and Darion ended up taking the job instead. The Thorignir we raise have been dead for who knows how long, considering we go to a graveyard to raise one rather than find one and kill them ourselves (and the Thorignir who aren't dead don't seem to have much to say on the topic for good or ill).

It's worth keeping in mind that all these actions were meant to strengthen the Ebon Blade, who are very much active against the Legion. The Four Horsemen were powerful individuals raised to take command in the field, giving them second chances (in Whitemane's case, a chance to redeem herself by aiming her against actual threats to the world's safety and in the others, a chance to battle for the world they love once more), the Thorignir graveyard was raided to get you a mount capable of carrying you into battle (and the Ruby Sanctum similarly attacked for information regarding said fitting mount).

The sum total is that the Ebon Blade end up with a better command structure (including dedicated field commanders and a long-term strategy outside 'integrate with the Alliance and Horde'), a source of aerial support, and a steady supply of frontline troops from the Scourge, letting what was a small group of elite shock troopers form themselves into a faction on even standing with the better-established factions like the Cenarion Circle or Silver Hand (where, again, they were previously reliant on the better-established factions for logistical and manpower support, especially in Icecrown). And given that, assuming you're actively doing missions and playing the game, the Ebon Blade is very much active against the Legion, the Lich King's actions end up a net benefit in strengthening the Ebon Blade.

In short: Dude's evil, yo.

Morally ambiguous doesn't mean evil. Nobody's accusing Bolvar of inviting Anduin over for tea and crumpets, but right now every action he's taken onscreen has been to better-prepare the Ebon Blade for long-term status as defenders of Azeroth, where before they were far more reliant on support from the Alliance, Horde, and Argent Crusade/Silver Hand to get shit done.

Or to give Fire Mages shit for coming in unannounced and planning to steal something from his home, which, again, I'd be petty and pissy about, too.

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The better question is, what "other plans" does he have for Acherus? In case we die?

Arthas wanted to raze it. Bolvar likely wants to fold the Ebon Blade into the Scourge as his elite troops and top lieutenants, with you currently acting as the liaison between himself and the Horsemen. He can do that with or without you, he just prefers to do it with you as proof that he isn't simply seeking to enslave them the way he's controlling the Scourge.

[Combatbutler]

A guy invades your home without so much as a heads-up, intending to steal your shit, I bet you'd be pretty irritated at him, too.

That sword did not belong to him in the first place and he is responsible for the death of Liandra Sunstrider and her enslavement into the scourge.

[OIS]

If you slaughter them.

Which one is the canonically correct choice?

[Combatbutler]

Which one is the canonically correct choice?

Unknown for the time being, though considering the dk track record in this expansion, the slaughter might actually become canon.

[Adoxe]

Does the questline say that he's unfrozen though? To me it looks like he's projecting himself at Acherus to watch over the Death Knights while he's still frozen in Icecrown.

[Thage]

That sword did not belong to him in the first place and he is responsible for the death of Liandra Sunstrider and her enslavement into the scourge.

While true on both points, at that point it's his by the same virtue we the player characters claim our weapons--he killed the person holding it, so it falls into his possession. And just like us, he takes offense to someone coming in unannounced and uninvited to steal what was his by virtue of killing the shit out of its previous owner.

Which one is the canonically correct choice?

Coin flip at this point; it will likely remain a Schrodinger's Choice unless it becomes plot-relevant later.

[anaxie]

I originally saw this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...h_king_throne/



As you can see, the Lich King is no longer frozen. This might be a big hint about one of the upcoming expansions.

What expansion?

What new zones?

What command structure

it's Bolvar and Player DKS.

It's not going to happen unless you want to see WoW go below 1 million subs with this horrid idea.

And Lastly and most importantly.

Lich King is a title. But Bolvar is not and will never be Arthas and he will never share in the Legacy of Arthas and the Cult of the Damned.

Bolvar is fucking garbage he doesn't inherit the fame of Arthas gained during the Third War when he decimated Dalaran, Lordaeron, and nearly brought the High Elves to the brink of extinction and killed the Leaders of all those nations personally.

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The Ice Stone Has Melted prophecy finally came true...


For real tho, this is just a vision, the real LK is still frozen solid. Previous LK was unable to break out on his own, this one can't too.

Previous Lich King Ner'zhul COULDN't break out of his ice block because it would DESTROY him if their was no one to quickly merge with.

Source: The entire plot of WC3: The Frozen Throne.

[jdbond592]

LKs(Arthas or Bolvar) could freeze or unfreeze themselves anytime they wanted. Since Bolvar is still sitting on his throne, his unfreezing means nothing. Unless he is traveling, unfreeze doesn't help him at all.

[Utigarde]

On the topic of the zone you go to, it was created just for this, and uses Legion art assets, with the exception of the dragon skeleton.

This throne was the alpha/beta version of the Frozen Throne, and was later moved to the Halls of Reflection. Unsure if that made it into live in Wrath. But it is Bolvar being frozen. They wouldn't have had us go out of our way to see Bolvar moving around on his Throne unless they wanted us to see that. He's had no trouble communicating with us before, and wouldn't have any problem when we go to Northrend either. It was intentional that we saw Bolvar like this.

The lines Bolvar says through this are what get me most excited, though. Bolvar is still very powerful, frozen or not, and he outright states that he'll take over Acherus and the Ebon Blade if we fail to do what he asks. I suspect that whenever Bolvar comes up in the future, he will take over the Ebon Blade with the exception of the Deathlord, for the sake of us not losing our PC.

[Aucald]

Since this is a projection and not the Lich King (Bolvar) himself I don't think it can answer the question of Bolvar's "freedom" from the Frozen Throne one way or the other. I would conclude he's still "trapped" insofar as that matters - his ability to project himself, control elements of the Scourge, and his newfound connection with the Ebon Blade makes the question of his physical freedom somewhat immaterial. I don't think Bolvar is truly imprisoned on the Frozen Throne in any case - he may be encased in ice but that's likely more a storytelling device than any kind of true mechanism of imprisonment. The moment Bolvar feels the need to stretch his legs as the Lich King he will shatter the ice and go wherever he pleases. What kept the original Lich King Ner'zhul imprisoned in the Frozen Throne was his incorporeality, a problem solved in the merger with Arthas (at least for the Lich King proper). Bolvar's Lich King incarnation is already corporeal, so I don't think he's anymore trapped on the Frozen Throne than Arthas was in his time.

[OIS]

Unknown for the time being, though considering the dk track record in this expansion, the slaughter might actually become canon.

I find it silly that an every dragon in Ruby Sanctum got killed by a single death knight, no matter how powerful the Deathlord might be. But I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be the case.

And when have the dragonflights rebuilt their sanctums anyway?

[Combatbutler]

I find it silly that an every dragon in Ruby Sanctum got killed by a single death knight, no matter how powerful the Deathlord might be. But I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be the case.

And when have the dragonflights rebuilt their sanctums anyway?

The dragons are much weaker now and I'd guess they rebuild the sanctum after MoP, recreating that dimension shouldn't have been too hard.

[OIS]

The dragons are much weaker now and I'd guess they rebuild the sanctum after MoP, recreating that dimension shouldn't have been too hard.

They are strong enough to create a pocket dimension yet they fall short of killing a walking corpse? Granted, the corpse carries a powerful weapon but it can't fly.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Probably a vision or projection. Don't read too much into it. We know Bolvar is up to something but that's it.

[ExtremelyCrusty]

As much as I would love another Lich King expansion, they need to do it right.

[Combatbutler]

They are strong enough to create a pocket dimension yet they fall short of killing a walking corpse? Granted, the corpse carries a powerful weapon but it can't fly.

Pocket dimensions aren't that tricky, magi create them quite often.

[Raetary]

I find it silly that an every dragon in Ruby Sanctum got killed by a single death knight, no matter how powerful the Deathlord might be. But I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be the case.

And when have the dragonflights rebuilt their sanctums anyway?

all of the dragons including the aspects have been greatly weakened ever since the fall of deathwing.

the blues are basically almost extinct, no idea what the state of the green dragonflight is at the moment, bronze is doing... fine i guess? and ye, the fate of the reds depends on the achievement being canon or not.

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They are strong enough to create a pocket dimension yet they fall short of killing a walking corpse? Granted, the corpse carries a powerful weapon

this corpse is a walking juggernaut of death wielding the remnants of frostmounre/ an axe hungry for life energy that eats out and bleeds dry anything it touches/ a sword that can spread plagues and death of nathrezim origin

but it can't fly.

death grip?

[Mirishka]

Well, a line the LK said later on that quest got my attention more than throne: "Of course, should you fail to survive, know that I shall claim Acherus for my own. Arthas may have sought revenge on the citadel, but I have... other plans."

I've been saying it for years that Bolvar-LK is gonna be a problem someday... and that bit of dialogue gives me hope that I'm right.

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I find it silly that an every dragon in Ruby Sanctum got killed by a single death knight, no matter how powerful the Deathlord might be. But I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be the case.

And when have the dragonflights rebuilt their sanctums anyway?

I didn't kill a single one of them, personally. #NotMyCanon