~$400 Budget Build Request

[Deenju]

Purchasing in the US. No peripherals needed.

Looking to build a couple family computers for things like raiding in WoW, Overwatch, Minecraft, that kind of thing. They would possibly be used for music (Ableton Live) and art (Photoshop) as well, if that makes a difference.

It's been a good 7 years since I've put together a machine of my own so I'm not familiar enough with the modern parts to know if any of the other recent cheap builds posted here would work for what we have in mind.

Thanks for the help!

[Thunderball]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($66.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: MSI - B250M PRO-VD Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($62.88 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Crucial - Ballistix Sport LT 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($54.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($48.44 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1050 2GB ACX 2.0 Video Card ($99.99 @ B&H)
Case: Zalman - T2 Plus MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($30.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA - 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($33.69 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $397.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-06-08 23:18 EDT-0400

Ideally upgrade to a GTX 1050 Ti here for +$30. You can also have a 120GB SSD instead of a harddrive as an option. Or you can buy used HDDs (for $5-10) and get SSDs.

[Deenju]

Thanks for the information!

I appreciate it.

[Alantor]

Get a SSD, can buy a HDD later on. This one is better quality if you can and want to spend a little more.

[Fascinate]

Perfect budget build above, you would be happy with that.

I would not consider an ssd with your budget, but if you can put an extra ~25 into your budget a hybrid HDD is a great option:
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/n28...ve-st1000dx002

It really is worth the extra money, i own that particular drive.

[Deenju]

Still waiting to pull the trigger on the purchases.

I did some reading on SSDs and HDDs because I, embarrassingly enough, didn't even know the difference between them, but now I do! Hooray for that! The hybrid drive seems like a great way to go. I realize it's not as awesome as the SSDs, but it's a big step in the right direction without spending too much money.

Thanks for the information.

Is there anything else that I should know about like that? Like, is there a slightly more expensive CPU that would work with this motherboard and add more longevity than the G4560?

[Arainie]

The G4560 performs basically on par with an i3 which costs a lot more (nearly double). You'll have to bump up to an i5 for a significant performance increase but the price will also skyrocket at the same time. The biggest performance increase you'd get for a small amount of money is probably like Thunderball says, GTX 1050Ti instead of GTX1050.

[Deenju]

Excellent!

I was planning on going with that GTX 1050Ti.

[Lathais]

The G4560 performs basically on par with an i3 which costs a lot more (nearly double). You'll have to bump up to an i5 for a significant performance increase but the price will also skyrocket at the same time. The biggest performance increase you'd get for a small amount of money is probably like Thunderball says, GTX 1050Ti instead of GTX1050.

And no point in i5's currently really. Better off with a Ryzen than an i5. Similar performance for less $$$.

[Kagthul]

And no point in i5's currently really. Better off with a Ryzen than an i5. Similar performance for less $$$.

At least as far as locked i5s go, yeah.

Waste of money.

[Lathais]

At least as far as locked i5s go, yeah.

Waste of money.

Even the unlocked ones. A 7600k is $227.88 An R5-1600 is $195.99. Motherboards are similar in price. The AMDs are not as horrible at gaming as people make them out to be. Yes, the intels do perform slightly better, but it's just that, slight. In addition, while max FPS may be better on the intel, many people are reporting a "smoother" experience on the Ryzens. With AMDs being in the major consoles now, that means more games will be optimized for Ryzen in the future. For slightly less money, I'll take the slight hit in older games, where I'm likely so far above 60FPS that I won't even be able to distinguish any difference between the two, so that I can have 2 more cores and 8 more threads.

All that is pretty off topic though. The Pentium is a great choice for the OPs use-case.

[Thunderball]

Even the unlocked ones. A 7600k is $227.88 An R5-1600 is $195.99. Motherboards are similar in price. The AMDs are not as horrible at gaming as people make them out to be. Yes, the intels do perform slightly better, but it's just that, slight. In addition, while max FPS may be better on the intel, many people are reporting a "smoother" experience on the Ryzens. With AMDs being in the major consoles now, that means more games will be optimized for Ryzen in the future. For slightly less money, I'll take the slight hit in older games, where I'm likely so far above 60FPS that I won't even be able to distinguish any difference between the two, so that I can have 2 more cores and 8 more threads.

All that is pretty off topic though. The Pentium is a great choice for the OPs use-case.

IPC is king for those types of games, and it wont change in any kind of forseeable future. Those cores would just be useless.

[Fascinate]

IPC is king for those types of games, and it wont change in any kind of forseeable future. Those cores would just be useless.

Im starting to think it matters less than people get on about. I ask around everyday in the busiest part of dalaran what people's FPS are and what settings, ive not found a single person that was at a higher FPS than my ryzen machine....surely some of them had 6600=7700k's etc.

Game is so old i dont think it can take advantage past a certain level of hardware. You also need to keep in mind in the theoretical scenario that a 7600k would get more FPS in a raid than a 1600, are you able to notice that given the nature of WoW's engine? I have played this game for 10 years now, you get the same lag on boss fights no matter the system, even if your FPS is higher it feels the same.

Just crazy to me to build a system with an i5 in it with 1600 on the market.

[Thunderball]

Im starting to think it matters less than people get on about. I ask around everyday in the busiest part of dalaran what people's FPS are and what settings, ive not found a single person that was at a higher FPS than my ryzen machine....surely some of them had 6600=7700k's etc.

Game is so old i dont think it can take advantage past a certain level of hardware. You also need to keep in mind in the theoretical scenario that a 7600k would get more FPS in a raid than a 1600, are you able to notice that given the nature of WoW's engine? I have played this game for 10 years now, you get the same lag on boss fights no matter the system, even if your FPS is higher it feels the same.

Just crazy to me to build a system with an i5 in it with 1600 on the market.

You're going to be suprised how much people have absolutely shit machines. You're absolutely going to notice the FPS increase on a 7600K due to the nature of how WoW uses CPU resources. 7600K is an absolutely valid choice for a gaming machine - huge amount of people only play games that are designed for a mass gamer and simply cannot take advantage of additional cores.

[Fascinate]

You're going to be suprised how much people have absolutely shit machines. You're absolutely going to notice the FPS increase on a 7600K due to the nature of how WoW uses CPU resources. 7600K is an absolutely valid choice for a gaming machine - huge amount of people only play games that are designed for a mass gamer and simply cannot take advantage of additional cores.

I have no doubt a properly tuned 7700k machine would have more raid FPS than mine, but again its not something you could "feel". Game simply isnt optimized for high end hardware. That bolsters the argument for ryzen even more, no one should be buying an i5 based machine in 2017 with r5 1600 existing.

[Thunderball]

I have no doubt a properly tuned 7700k machine would have more raid FPS than mine, but again its not something you could "feel". Game simply isnt optimized for high end hardware. That bolsters the argument for ryzen even more, no one should be buying an i5 based machine in 2017 with r5 1600 existing.

You dont understand how it works do you?

[Fascinate]

You dont understand how it works do you?

Heh.

I know the WoW engine better than most, there is a point in hardware where the experience simply does not scale with dollars spent. I dont know exactly where that plateau is, but its well below ryzen IPC.

We aren't going to see dramatic gains in WoW til we get a new engine, and depending on the popularity going forward we might never even get a dx12 patch.

By all means tho, build a PC in 2017 based around a 12 year old game, in which the experience does not get drastically better.....even when you spend a lot more money.

[Thunderball]

Heh.

I know the WoW engine better than most, there is a point in hardware where the experience simply does not scale with dollars spent. I dont know exactly where that plateau is, but its well below ryzen IPC.

We aren't going to see dramatic gains in WoW til we get a new engine, and depending on the popularity going forward we might never even get a dx12 patch.

By all means tho, build a PC in 2017 based around a 12 year old game, in which the experience does not get drastically better.....even when you spend a lot more money.

It's not below Ryzen IPC.

Ok fine, let's assume it's below Ryzen IPC. What does that leave us? WoW needs 1.5 cores, doesnt scale well with IPC (WoW doesnt take advantage of instructions that modern CPUs use to have an edge in IPC), scales pretty well with clocks (it's proven, overclocking gives you better FPS in all situations). We have 2 cores that are 800-1000 MHz higher clocked (average max clock of 3.8-4 for Ryzen and 4.7-5 for Kaby Lake) vs SMT (which WoW doesnt scale particually well with too). Most people are not going to be doing any streaming or heavy multitasking so the rest of the cores are useless. Same situation for the likes of CS:GO, Overwatch, LoL, DotA 2, Minecraft - the games people play at masse.

[Fascinate]

It's not below Ryzen IPC.

Ok fine, let's assume it's below Ryzen IPC. What does that leave us? WoW needs 1.5 cores, doesnt scale well with IPC (WoW doesnt take advantage of instructions that modern CPUs use to have an edge in IPC), scales pretty well with clocks (it's proven, overclocking gives you better FPS in all situations). We have 2 cores that are 800-1000 MHz higher clocked (average max clock of 3.8-4 for Ryzen and 4.7-5 for Kaby Lake) vs SMT (which WoW doesnt scale particually well with too). Most people are not going to be doing any streaming or heavy multitasking so the rest of the cores are useless. Same situation for the likes of CS:GO, Overwatch, LoL, DotA 2, Minecraft - the games people play at masse.

Curious, how poorly do you believe ryzen plays WoW?

Im flying around dalaran right now and the LOWEST FPS ive seen is 74, on 7 preset at 1440p. Usually hovering between 80-100 FPS. I know for sure this is better than my overclocked 2500k was managing.

Are you now going to say an overclocked 2500k isnt a sufficient CPU for WoW? Before ryzen hit no one was suggesting people upgrade those.

[Thunderball]

Curious, how poorly do you believe ryzen plays WoW?

Im flying around dalaran right now and the LOWEST FPS ive seen is 74, on 7 preset at 1440p. Usually hovering between 80-100 FPS. I know for sure this is better than my overclocked 2500k was managing.

Are you now going to say an overclocked 2500k isnt a sufficient CPU for WoW? Before ryzen hit no one was suggesting people upgrade those.

I have no way to compare. I dont play WoW for 6 years already, and you're playing at a quite unpopular resolution on non-max settings. All I would say that I wouldnt buy a Ryzen to play WoW or similar games (especially R7), it's just stupid.