Have they finally got it right?

[Alexeht]

TBH I rather have nothing to do than too much to do, and constant pressure to get AP. Yes I still don't have 'Concordance', and I don't even mention state of my offspec ... IMO collecting 'marks' in WotLK was better, since there was cap so everyone knew when to stop, not like it is now with AP (I don't have concordance, but rank 1 person in AP is 61). I absolutely hate artifact levels, since it feels like someone would hang 'carrot' in front of me, which I will never get ...

[Otrew]

The only thing i dont like right now is the legendary sistem, the rest is ok. wth 7.2 ap is not a problem anymore, with my maini stop farming ap like 2 or 3 months a go and i have mi main weapon at 54, and the off spece at 52. i reach 110 with a mage like 3 weeks a go and arleady have my weapons in 51, 47 and 37. with fresh 110 ak 40 is gonna be even easier

[MoanaLisa]

It's reasonable. Are there things I would change? Sure. There's a lot of stuff I like too.

I've never been a dead-ender for either faction of the "Yes it's great, no it sucks" factions. I like the game well enough to continue to play it casually. Unlike others I think the WQ system for dailies is far superior to the Mists dailies for the variety if nothing else.

I don't have a lot of patience for anyone who just tosses off the word "cancer" for stuff they dislike or people they disagree with. I think most of us know people who have had cancer and using it in this context is offensive and completely unnecessary.

[MoanaLisa]

If it is like 7.2 I'll pug my curve and then be looking at levelling alts in a few weeks (got 6 out of 12 to 110) . I was new to WOW for legion and at the moment this is good for me. However once I get a max level for all 12 classes then I'm not sure what WOW has in store for me in the future (is it worth doing it again with Alliance?)

Probably not worth doing all 12 classes for the Alliance although I would recommend leveling at least one character Alliance side so you can see the differences in story from past expansions.

[Evaddon]

Im playing games since ZX81 times (go google whats that). Think thats more than enough experience about games.

I don't care?
You said (WoW is the best single player game you ever played)....you lost all credibility there with that statement, there are waaaaay to many fantastic single player games out there were the things you do actually have visible effects to the world, your surroundings, your character/ the characters in the game...for WoW to be the best single player experience you've had. The Narrative in WoW isn't the best even though it does have many stories to tell but that taken into the a multiplayer game...such as WoW is, can't be told correctly or fully in alot of cases.

Yeah WoW can be fun alone questing, leveling. Sure. Turn on some music kill some things. Still doesn't measure up remotely to a real single player game

[Deleted]

I don't care?
You said (WoW is the best single player game you ever played)....you lost all credibility there with that statement, there are waaaaay to many fantastic single player games out there were the things you do actually have visible effects to the world, your surroundings, your character/ the characters in the game...for WoW to be the best single player experience you've had. The Narrative in WoW isn't the best even though it does have many stories to tell but that taken into the a multiplayer game...such as WoW is, can't be told correctly or fully in alot of cases.

Yeah WoW can be fun alone questing, leveling. Sure. Turn on some music kill some things. Still doesn't measure up remotely to a real single player game

Credibility? That is merely my opinion. Sorry, but I cant have yours.
Your opinion differs and thats fine. But spitting my opinion is not fine.

[Deavane]

youre a real cancer of this forum. I have seen you post on countless threads the same whining QQing pathetic dross about how youve quit wow and blizz will never get you back...GOOD! plz do us all a favour at mmo champ and leave here too because were all sick of you crying about a game you dont even play anymore! clown

Out of your 7 post you have, this is one of them. People can complain just as much as they can praise WoW. You'd be better off asking why they're saying the things they are rather than attacking them and making yourself look foolish.

Related to the OP, my play time has dropped significantly. I've quit raiding due to changes coming to my RL. Also started playing some other games (most notably BDO). Looking at 7.2.5 though, it looks like the out of raid management isn't nearly as bad as it was pre-NH/NH. As a raider I want to raid. Having to farm AP and run Mythic + isn't enjoyable to me really. Now that concordance is easily achieved, the need to continually farm AP isn't a priority I would assume for most. That's a plus in my book. With the release of Tomb that'll be good for just about everyone who enjoys raid (Good number of guilds have killed Mythic Gul'dan, lots of people clearing the other difficulties weekly).

With regards to other content coming with the patch, I'm not really sure what there is. Haven't heard of anything overly amazing though.

Hope everyone enjoys the raid though

[Deleted]

Raids and dungeons have better loot . Its loot can wf/tf just as wq loot.
And ofc not everyone can be happy with that, there are always people who care what other people wear/ride/do.
It is definately better then WoD where only raid-loggers were happy.

[Arainie]

Just curious but what are you doing now? For example I am not fan of Legion but I decided to come back for the Class mount. The 7.2 "quest" chain is one of the worst chains I have ever seen and the whole think would take you a few hours at max if not for the 12 WQ time gate. Other then that its the same ole grind filled with RNG.

I raid 6h a week with the main team, 1.5-3h casual/alt raid so tops 9h a week. Outside of that I do emissaries on 3 characters, broken shores WQs on 3 characters, a few 10-19 Mythic+ with more emphasis on main than alts and the occasional invasion, random HC, LFR, chest/portal farm etc. I can easily play 4-5 hours a day without running out of content.

If you compare it to WoD, where I didn't raid actively as I couldn't commit to a regular schedule, I logged in for 15 mins each day to set up garrison on 3 characters and then I was done. Had to "farm" the cloth mobs you trapped about once a week, but that was really it. The only actual content worth doing outside of raids was CMs (did gold and then that was over) and a round of Mythic dungeons each week. Tanaan Jungle made things a little bit better, but once you hit exalted that was essentially over for people like me who don't care much for things that don't progress your character.

[Deleted]

No. The expansion started as an extreme grind for ap, legendaries and titanforged items, and now we're at WoD level of nothingness.
If you reached Concordance and got your bis legendaries, you've literally no reason to log in and do daily content. Even the ridicoulus rng rollecoaster for titanforges and M+ pieces is not enough to keep me playing outside of raid hours.

Throw into this mess the butchering of many classes and specs, and you got the perfect mix for a terrible expansion.

[mychal]

I love Legion, great mix. For me the best expansion since burning crusade.

[Magicon]

Nope! They ported over Diablo III, called it WoW, and proceeded to burn the game down around it. Get rid of world quests (go back to the daily system in MoP - minus the gates), get rid of constant gear progression, i.e. Titanforge, Warforge, random stats on top of random drops, etc., revamp the legendary system, remove and/or revamp the artifact system, remove followers and missions, remove the "leader of the world" theme for our characters, pull back from the StarCraft II BS, focus on Azeroth, redo the classes to a proper format and theme for the lore, etc. Also, just bring back the damn game! Stop reinventing the wheel every two years!

this dude got it right for sure.

[lewdest]

Maybe I'll play next expansion when I can play on the PS4 with an atari stick for a controller. Class design is horrid and I've given up hope, Burning Crusade with great scripting to be released soon, so I'll probably give that I try before coming back to retail. It's fun to keep up with the patches and roll my eyes at every stupid class design choice they make though.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

WoW! This thread took off while I was out today. One thought that occurs to me is that people who take time to comment still care, right? Even if they're complaining. I mean, there are plenty of games out there that none of us are commenting on because none of us care about them.

• I am excited for the new raid. I'll be tanking for a guild raiding three nights a week in hopes of being in mythic by July. I'll also tank for a casual H raiding guild on my alt.
• I've heard good things about the Deaths of Chromie. Hopefully that will give us all something fun to do.
• I still enjoy M+, especially when in a group of regulars who can push high keys. Left my old guild last week because reasons, so I'm kind of between M+ teams, but hopefully I'll find that groove with my new guild soon.

Happy 7.2.5 everyone! It's coming whether we're ready or not.
Here's hoping you find ways to enjoy it, or find something else you can enjoy.
It's a big world full of possibilities and a beautiful time of year to explore them.

[Banquetto]

LMAO the butthurt is strong with this one

Given a choice between being butthurt, and having the sort of personality disorder that would make me hang around eternally whining on a forum about a game I don't play, rather than doing something I enjoy with my life.. well, I'd choose butthurt 100 times out of 100.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

If you reached Concordance and got your bis legendaries, you've literally no reason to log in and do daily content.

I agree there's no reason to feel the daily content is required, which is a break for those who only want to raid. But if you enjoy the game and want to log in, hang out with in-game friends, play your alts, etc., there are still things you can do. And pretty much anything you enjoy doing (WQs, invasions, pet battles, pvp...) all award AP, so you'll always be progressing at least a bit when you play.

[kamuimac]

The problem is raid guilds that got used to "Log in, raid, log out, unsub once raid is on farm," from WoD.

that problem is a bit deeper - raiding worked like this since wolk - you are looking at 8 years of raiding exackly like this - last time something similiar happend was in ToTC in wolk - and since then it was always log in raid log out - and model was working well for 8 years thats why people feel cheated

[Accendor]

Seems this whole expansion has been about striking a balance between "log in to raid" and "need more to do". Not taking sides here; it's a game, a hobby, and I'm not here to tell others how to enjoy it. But Blizz has to balance those who want a way to progress their favorite toon every time they log on with those who want to feel fairly competitive with as little time as possible outside of raids.

As I think about my schedule going into 7.2.5, I already have Concordance in MS & OS, with a couple extra levels in MS, both on my main and on primary alt. AP will be useful but not worth grinding. I'll want to push a M+ key, but no need to run M+ more than one night a week.

On the other hand, I know I can log in for more M+, invasions, emissary chests, etc., as many nights a week as I feel like playing.

To me, it feels like they finally got it right. What do you think?

Problem is the cap on artifact knowledge now which basically removes any reason to do content after a specific point.

[Raelbo]

Problem is the cap on artifact knowledge now which basically removes any reason to do content after a specific point.

Not entirely true. It simply removes all the spurious reasons to do content.

[Raelbo]

To me, it feels like they finally got it right. What do you think?

There is always more than one way to get it right, although there are definitely ways to get it wrong. I think that Blizzard have been getting it mostly right for a long time now, and in Legion more so than other expansions.

Anyhow it is my opinion after reading countless threads on this and other fora is that many of the problems with the game stem from people playing the game wrong rather than the game getting it wrong per se. So I think the challenge Blizzard need to continuously address is how to get to people to play the game the way the designers intended us to play it.

For example, with Legion, the biggest complaints are typically around 3 issues:

1) AP grind:

The designers intended the AP system to work as a continuous reward structure that allowed people to spend as much or as little time as they wanted to playing the game, and to get rewarded accordingly. Because of the exponentially decreasing reward/effort ratio, and the way that AK allowed you to get the same reward for less effort if you waited, it set up a situation where the people who put in the most effort got the most reward, but it was never so compelling that anyone was forced to put in more effort than they wanted to.

Unfortunately a bunch of people latched onto the paragon cap and structured their game around trying to chase an objective that was never a requirement. They played the game wrong, and as a result hated on the system

2) Legiondaries

Legendaries were meant to be really awesome rewards that you'd eventually get all of. And for a short while it was like that, until some players got jealous of other players who got better legendaries. So instead of being happy with what they got, a lot of players were unhappy because of what they hadn't get yet.

To be fair, the discrepancies between the weakest and strongest legendaries was a design flaw, which they fixed later on, but I still think most of the "massive problems with legendaries" come down to player immaturity (a very unpopular opinion I realise but one which I hold to be a truth).

3) WF/TF RNG

The point of WF/TF is, again, to provide an extended capacity of the game to reward the players. It was also intended to discourage people from chasing the traditional, unhealthy obsession of chasing BiS in every slot.

Sadly though a lot of people are more concerned about what they didn't get than what they did get, so again, player immaturity. Others insist on burning themselves out on trying to achieve BiS, instead of just playing the game to the extent to which they feel comfortable. In other words they are playing the game wrong.



While I get the argument that would like to blame Blizzard for everything that we as players don't get right (and as a result compromise our experience of the game) I would point out that there are many players who do get it right. So it's not rocket science. Yeah, Blizzard could always do a better job of getting players to play the game they designed it be played, but honestly, if someone is playing the game wrong, odds are that it's just as much their own failing as Blizzards, which is why I find a lot of the typical whine threads to be amusing, because the people complaining fail to realise the irony of their complaints.

Don't get wrong: this game is far from perfect and balanced criticism should always be encouraged. I am referring more to the hyperbolic whining that many love to indulge in which IMO is just plain toxic and doesn't help anything.