EU cracks down on the UK: Brexit negotiations under threat

[Ryme]

Can someone translate this?

Are you saying that Polish people are Muslims?

I'm still scratching my head.

[Aggrophobic]

Doesn't every country have restricted immigration?

From other EU countries? No.

[Deleted]

The UK is a Customer to the EU currently, we don't get much out of the deal in essence as every other country can produce goods for less than Britain and in a free trade union there is no reason not to buy from a cheaper source (such as Eastern European countries), this is only made worse by bringing people to the table who really shouldn't be there such as Greece who doesn't have the economy to sustainably stay in the EU despite constant bailouts that countries such as ours have to put in for. We should look out for Greece, but the EU shouldn't put them in a position where they are constantly bankrupt.

Added to that the "free movement of people" which in itself is fine, however due to the legislation in the EU people who come into the country are afforded the same rights to Government handouts as people who have put into the country their whole lives, even if it's a minority I personally know quite a few people in my local area who have never worked a day in their life in the UK who have come from other EU countries, it's bad enough without more strain on a broken system. In essence most people I know who voted to leave have no problem with immigration in itself, more a problem with us being unable to do anything about the strain to our Benefits from people we can't turn away. I voted to leave the EU and thus far I haven't seen any reason I was wrong to choose that. It isn't racist to look out for your countries best interests, we won't suddenly have no money and a poor economy overnight as we still have the money to spend.

As an added caveat the movement of people isn't the only reason that the people I know who voted to leave did so.

[Pann]

Added to that the "free movement of people" which in itself is fine, however due to the legislation in the EU people who come into the country are afforded the same rights to Government handouts as people who have put into the country their whole lives,

That is not true. An EU immigrant can only claim certain benefits, such as child tax credits or housing benefit if they are in work if they are not in work then they are not eligible job seeker's allowance, child benefit or child tax credits within the first three months of arrival, if they are still out of work after a further three months JSA is withdrawn (unless they have a written job offer).

[Deleted]

That is not true. An EU immigrant can only claim certain benefits, such as child tax credits or housing benefit if they are in work if they are not in work then they are not eligible job seeker's allowance, child benefit or child tax credits within the first three months of arrival, if they are still out of work after a further three months JSA is withdrawn (unless they have a written job offer).

But if you haven't put into the system why should you be able to get anything out of it at all? My gripes on this don't only relate to migrants but to stay on topic with the thread it is a concern of mine, I personally know of families with 8+ children from Eastern Europe (there are also English people who do this too don't get me wrong and if there was a vote to kick them out I would have voted to kick them out too) who don't work and have never worked and claim money from the government in excess of what I earn working 40+ hours per week in a fairly decent job.

[Deleted]

The UK will get the worst possible deal and will have to pay billions to set an example for others that might want to leave.

After centuries of wars and competition, France and Germany will strike a final blow to the UK it seems.

[Pann]

But if you haven't put into the system why should you be able to get anything out of it at all? My gripes on this don't only relate to migrants but to stay on topic with the thread it is a concern of mine, I personally know of families with 8+ children from Eastern Europe (there are also English people who do this too don't get me wrong and if there was a vote to kick them out I would have voted to kick them out too) who don't work and have never worked and claim money from the government in excess of what I earn working 40+ hours per week in a fairly decent job.

What had you put into the system when you were born in the nice NHS hospital staffed by doctors and nurses all paid for by the system? How much had you paid in when the system paid for you be educated?

The migrant families with eight or more children all receiving benefits story smacks of a Daily Mail exclusive and I honestly doubt you personally know of any families like that. In reality if a migrant hasn't paid into the system they cannot get any benefits for three months after that get JSA for three months before having it stopped.

The system makes investments in its citizens in order to realise future benefits for everyone. The current benefit system invests in those immigrants who are currently a benefit to everyone, by paying taxes, etc, whilst giving a chance to those have potential to become a benefit to the country.

[Deleted]

Sure, you can call it win win if you want to deal with the fallout, so no hard feelings. You can't expect any concessions though, the EU has to take a very hard line stance and statuate an example on the UK so nobody else will seriously contemplate leaving.

So the EU relies desperately on similar rules for 'leaving the family' as the Cosa Nostra. Lovely organisation.

[Deleted]

What had you put into the system when you were born in the nice NHS hospital staffed by doctors and nurses all paid for by the system? How much had you paid in when the system paid for you be educated?

The migrant families with eight or more children all receiving benefits story smacks of a Daily Mail exclusive and I honestly doubt you personally know of any families like that. In reality if a migrant hasn't paid into the system they cannot get any benefits for three months after that get JSA for three months before having it stopped.

The system makes investments in its citizens in order to realise future benefits for everyone. The current benefit system invests in those immigrants who are currently a benefit to everyone, by paying taxes, etc, whilst giving a chance to those have potential to become a benefit to the country.

My parents had worked a combined total of 40 years paying tax into the system in order to have access to the NHS hospital I was born in, hbu?

By the time I went to school they'd worked for 50 years in that same system, my mum was working nights 2 weeks after I was born so that I could stay with her in the day (whilst she was working on a degree) then my dad would look after me at night. My family have always had jobs and I have worked since I was 18 with no time off.

I live in one of the larger areas for migrants in the UK and it's not exactly a rare story in these areas.

[Puri]

For a union that supports free trade, the EU sure seems reluctant to talk business with the UK.

Why? It's the UKs turn to deliver, not the EUs. And right now even the UK itself does not agree on what it actually wants.
And while both sides have much to lose, never forget that UK is the junior partner in the negotiations and will not be able to press their agenda by force.

[Pann]

My parents had worked a combined total of 40 years paying tax into the system in order to have access to the NHS hospital I was born in, hbu?

By the time I went to school they'd worked for 50 years in that same system, my mum was working nights 2 weeks after I was born so that I could stay with her in the day (whilst she was working on a degree) then my dad would look after me at night. My family have always had jobs and I have worked since I was 18 with no time off.

I live in one of the larger areas for migrants in the UK and it's not exactly a rare story in these areas.

But, you'd paid nothing. Your initial complaint was someone should not receive benefit of the system without first paying into it yet you, like every UK citizen, received massive benefits from it without paying a penny.

Right? And? Good for them, the initial investment in your parents by the state seems to have paid off and they have made good use of it. However your parents' success does not change the fact that immigrants do not receive the benefits you claim they do.

Oh, so now it has gone from personally knowing these people to a story. Gotcha.

[Deleted]

Or, and bear with me here

you just get up and walk away from the EU.

historically that kind of shit is casus belli.

[Aggrophobic]

So the EU relies desperately on similar rules for 'leaving the family' as the Cosa Nostra. Lovely organisation.

Hardly.
You can't just promise to do something and then just forget about it though.
Out in the real world, actions have consequences.

[Bartolo]

Loads of British ex-pats in the EU that I know voted Leave, which you would think would be the least likely demographic to vote that way. People are odd.

I thought British expats were not allowed to vote in UK elections? At least those I know claim they were not allowed to vote in the referendum.

[Deleted]

But, you'd paid nothing. Your initial complaint was someone should not receive benefit of the system without first paying into it yet you, like every UK citizen, received massive benefits from it without paying a penny.

Right? And? Good for them, the initial investment in your parents by the state seems to have paid off and they have made good use of it. However your parents' success does not change the fact that immigrants do not receive the benefits you claim they do.

Oh, so now it has gone from personally knowing these people to a story. Gotcha.

But my parents had and until the age of 18 I was lawfully their responsibility... after 18 you're an adult and the cycle starts again. I haven't said that they shouldn't have access to healthcare because that's neglectful, I don't agree with people having access to money from a country they haven't put into. I wouldn't go to another country without first having employment lined up and a place to live and I'd expect the same rules to be in place for migration.

And I never said I didn't personally know people I said it wasn't a rare occurance, so I'd advise against twisting the narrative.

[Pann]

But my parents had and until the age of 18 I was lawfully their responsibility... after 18 you're an adult and the cycle starts again. I haven't said that they shouldn't have access to healthcare because that's neglectful, I don't agree with people having access to money from a country they haven't put into. I wouldn't go to another country without first having employment lined up and a place to live and I'd expect the same rules to be in place for migration.

And I never said I didn't personally know people I said it wasn't a rare occurance, so I'd advise against twisting the narrative.

You're changing your argument. Healthcare like education costs money, lots of money.

I will say it again an immigrant cannot come to the UK without having employment lined up and expect the same rules as a UK citizen. This is a fact. Your anecdotes about families you know does not change this.

Seriously stop digging. And maybe read something other than the Mail?

[Deleted]

The UK will get the worst possible deal and will have to pay billions to set an example for others that might want to leave.

After centuries of wars and competition, France and Germany will strike a final blow to the UK it seems.

The best part is the UK did it to itself, some sort of cosmic karma for empire.

[Deleted]

You're changing your argument. Healthcare like education costs money, lots of money.

I will say it again an immigrant cannot come to the UK without having employment lined up and expect the same rules as a UK citizen. This is a fact. Your anecdotes about families you know does not change this.

Seriously stop digging. And maybe read something other than the Mail?

Social Benefits are not the same as healthcare, is there any other alternative for people living in the UK other than private healthcare which is certainly out of budget for most people in the UK, nevermind for people coming into the country. I'm not expecting nobody to come to the UK from other countries, I'm expecting a system where people who come into the country are bringing something worth having, such is the case with other countries such as the US, Canada and Australia.

An immigrant can come into the UK and do come into the UK without having employment lined up under the free movement of people which is part of being an EU Citizen, if you have any sources to the contrary I'd welcome you to share them.

I don't read the daily mail, but you seem to know a lot more than me about their articles.

[Deleted]

Social Benefits are not the same as healthcare, is there any other alternative for people living in the UK other than private healthcare which is certainly out of budget for most people in the UK, nevermind for people coming into the country. I'm not expecting nobody to come to the UK from other countries, I'm expecting a system where people who come into the country are bringing something worth having, such is the case with other countries such as the US, Canada and Australia.

An immigrant can come into the UK and do come into the UK without having employment lined up under the free movement of people which is part of being an EU Citizen, if you have any sources to the contrary I'd welcome you to share them.

I don't read the daily mail, but you seem to know a lot more than me about their articles.

you can get into any of those countries through marriage, regardless of your value to the country.

and you will always have immigrants, legal or illigeal, refugees, regular homeless people, disabled people and others who do not put stuff into the system. but it's always better for the system to give them a little then to give them nothing and have them become a huge cost to the system through crime and what not.

[Mormolyce]

Don't worry, May will counter with the mandate of her increased majority!

...oh.

Too soon?

- - - Updated - - -

The UK will get the worst possible deal and will have to pay billions to set an example for others that might want to leave.

After centuries of wars and competition, France and Germany will strike a final blow to the UK it seems.

Somewhere out there the ghost of de Gualle is laughing.