No Vengeance nerf in the hotfixes?? Are they kidding?

[Super Kami Dende]

My biggest sadness about this happening is I've though my VDH was godlike before the BUffs, I worry going to OP will make Blizzard do the usual overnerf and turn us into shit again.

[Deleted]

Tojara, you touched on MoP vengeance earlier, you don't do absurd dps right now as vdh unless actually tanking, so no, you wont stack them as OTs or anything (i mean it's still pretty high, but its nowhere near high enough to justify taking a DH to a prog raid). Pain gen from damage taken is crucial to fracture spam, and fracture spam is actually the real problem here, not spirit bomb. Spirit bomb without using fracture is quite underwhelming if anything.

That being said it's obvious it's completely overtuned atm idk how anyone can even defend this shit lmao. fracture should generate 1 soul instead of 2, fixes the problem easily

[Tojara]

So you're saying VDHs might finally have a niche with high-end raid teams?

No I'm saying they might be necessary.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at. The game shouldn't be "it's my turn to be mandatory" and their design philosophy shouldn't be turning a blind eye for several months so each class has a turn at being fucking overpowered. It's retarded that bear druids were as broken as they were since the launch of the expansion, why would anybody be happy aside from the 600 DHs left that Vengeance DHs are going to be potentially busted for the next 6 months? That doesn't really make the game better. All it does is shift the balance to the next FoTM and anybody caught in between or without ends up suffering.

What I am saying is they would be broken. Tank class that does 30-40% more damage than the other tanks in ST would probably be mandatory early to meet certain DPS thresholds.

Saying in vacuum that you're going to get smashed trying to perform that is pretty disingenuous too. Most encounters are built around two tanks and generally they don't share the same responsibilities, because.. different tanks are different. DH tanks will absolutely do just that, and will just be relegated to being the DPS tank if their defensive capability really is that bad. If you were to take the DH of today and put in the past several months ago when Mythic Gul'dan wasn't killed, you would see Bears soloing the scythe (equally as bad for balance), and everybody using DHs as the off-tank because they help DPS requirements way more than any other tank option (which is also bad for balance).

Don't think anybody is saying, nor am I saying that tanking DHs can't be the best DPS of all the tanks. They gap just shouldn't be that large, and to turn a blind eye to it is fucking retarded.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I guess that means they can now faceroll both challenge mode scenarios.

[Tojara]

Tojara, you touched on MoP vengeance earlier, you don't do absurd dps right now as vdh unless actually tanking, so no, you wont stack them as OTs or anything (i mean it's still pretty high, but its nowhere near high enough to justify taking a DH to a prog raid). Pain gen from damage taken is crucial to fracture spam, and fracture spam is actually the real problem here, not spirit bomb. Spirit bomb without using fracture is quite underwhelming if anything.

That being said it's obvious it's completely overtuned atm idk how anyone can even defend this shit lmao. fracture should generate 1 soul instead of 2, fixes the problem easily

I think that really depends on the DPS requirements on a certain encounter, and whether or not ease of learning is just easier using a third tank on applicable encounters or not. I realize they don't do as much damage when they aren't actively tanking (which to your point, you say they still do high damage not tanking, and it's something I can replicate on mine as well).

I'm not saying you will stack them, I'm more or less saying that they might become a staple as one of your two tanks just like not having a bear druid in 7.2 was essentially crippling your raid, but for different reasons.

Whether they get smashed or not using this rotation for DPS while tanking really depends on the boss. Bosses have phases of high and low damage, with obvious giant burst periods. It's not particularly hard to find these areas, and allow your off-tank to get as much damage as possible during them (whether they need to be tanking to perform it to be fed rage/pain/whatever, or they need to tank as little as possible because they gain no benefit from actually tanking, like a bear druid in cat form). I think tanks can work around that, and just like 7.2 that had guilds using Vengeance DHs, they would work something out that would allow them to spam fracture as much as possible.

[Enitzu]

The definition of broken:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ulty=0&wipes=2

Our DH tank last night was top DPS overall on Mythic boss kills, averaging a mere 960k DPS. Not sure how Blizzard completely missed this one, but wow.

Considering the majority of your dps is pulling less than my 880 rogue, I can easily see why a DH tank is beating them. This should be more about how easy mode mythic has become in the early stages when you are able to carry such bad players ...

[satimy]

Who cares about tank damage

[Delimit]

That's really not the point. What this tells me is bring the strongest mitigation tank, and have your OT be a vengeance DH doing those exact things you listed for as long as possible.

Except that it doesn't work that way for Vengeance. Your DPS is significantly gimped when you're not tanking/being punched in the dick due to resources gained from damage taken.

I'm sorry, but that damage on Skorp wasn't even high. My Guardian alt has been pulling 2.3+m DPS on M Skorp for months.

[Jonsno]

you know its bad when they disabled the mage tower for Vengeance DH's.

First i've heard of it. Source?

[glowpipe]

First i've heard of it. Source?

Friend of mine said on discord that he was going to do the mage tower challenge now that he had op dmg. But he couldn't accept the quest as vengeance. When he swapped to havoc or his DK he could.

This might be something totaly different then blizzard actualy disabling it tho. So don't take what i said for given

[Teri]

First i've heard of it. Source?

Yesterday before mage tower got Destroyed EU I didn't see the quest either on my Veng DH

[zezel81]

Y'all keep saying that the guy is better than the whole raid combined and stuff, but people, TANK pulling 797k dps on KROSUS?! In a mere 914 gear? If you call that even remotely normal, you might belong to a mental asylum.

I can do 1.2 million on Krosus heroic with 906 ilvl as dps and monk tank can pull about 800k if geared/smart.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Yesterday before mage tower got Destroyed EU I didn't see the quest either on my Veng DH

Wow, that would be extremely sneaky of blizzard if this is connected.

[SpacedOut]

Wow, that would be extremely sneaky of blizzard if this is connected.

I did it on my VDH about 30 mins before the tower went down, but I had the quest in my log already.

[Ozyorkbourne]

The definition of broken:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ulty=0&wipes=2

Our DH tank last night was top DPS overall on Mythic boss kills, averaging a mere 960k DPS. Not sure how Blizzard completely missed this one, but wow.

It looks like a lot because your dps is trash. People are laughing, rightfully so, at that 4min+ Skorp kill.

On Skorp his boss damage was 390,666.0 which isn't much.
Chromatic boss dps? 692,136.0
What he's doing on Trilliax isn't that odd, but none of your dps can break 800k which is terribly sub par.
On Spellblade his boss dps was 558,526.0 which was a 94% Boss DPS percentile.

I don't need to go on. Your kill speed and execution rankings are the reason why, really. He's quite good at his class (dps wise at least) and the rest of the group, generally, aren't.

I'm not flaming you here, but there's a clear skill/ability gap between your raiders. Some are in the 75-100% range while some are just green logging every fight.

[Vaerys]

Someone remind me, were people complaining this much about prot paladin damage in Hellfire Citadel?

[muto]

It will get nerfed in the next round of hotfixes.

[Deleted]

Who cares about tank damage

Every dps check on the game cares for tank damage as for any damage, are you mental or what. If one tank does the same as any other but 400k dps more it will be OP as hell. You are one of those who say "oh no my guild is 1% away from phasing X boss before Y ability the DPS suck =(((" while your tanks do 100k dps for sure.

[satimy]

Every dps check on the game cares for tank damage as for any damage, are you mental or what. If one tank does the same as any other but 400k dps more it will be OP as hell. You are one of those who say "oh no my guild is 1% away from phasing X boss before Y ability the DPS suck =(((" while your tanks do 100k dps for sure.

Even with spirit bomb currently warriors and paladins probably do more single target dps

[Grobovshik]

Even with spirit bomb currently warriors and paladins probably do more single target dps

BS.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...=3&class=Tanks