Your comparing apples and oranges. It's only "easier" to get gear in Normal ToS because you WILL be heavily carried through this if anything that drops there is an upgrade for you. People at vastly superior ilvls are running it because of legendary chances and hopes for titanforges and possibly set pieces in the beginning. That's why it SEEMS to you like it is easier to get through it. If you did it in the ilvl it was designed for (around 880-890), then you would actually have to "progress" through it which would take much much more time.
Same with m+: If you do it in a group that it is designed for (890-900 for a +15), then it's hard. If you're carried through it by people vastly overgearing it, then it's easy.
And on the point that +15 should drop mythic ilvl, I can only laugh... gear inflation is already at a pace that gives you whiplash and you want to even increase that? And that's even besides the fact that a +15 would have to be played in ilvl 900 and in time to be even marginally close to the mythic difficulties of bosses after the first 3-4.
Why the focus on groupfinder though, Group finder should only be one of your options and most definately not be your primary one. Because yes, if you are not above the gearing curve group finder will generally be a tedious experience esp as a DPS.
If you want to efficiently gear up in M+ run with a grp of 4 guildies / friends and yourself, that will be a much better experience. Use the group finder to fill spots when you lack a guildie or friend. Run up all the key's as high as you can, when you get to your ceiling your key's will downgrade again and go again
majority of people dont play with guilds because they assosiate them with nothing but toxic enviroment and avoid like plague - they see nothing appealing in filling out 20 forms just to be evaluated by jobless people with mentality of 15 year old - thats why group finder is prime source of most of content in game for majority of people .
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there is a limit to how much bosses you can kill in mythic + - its called having job and life - most people dont have 100 hours a week to put into game like some here thats why your statemnt should be "there isn't a limit for m+ if you are jobless basement dweller without social life"
then i would totaly agree with you 100 %
For joining a guild, you usually don't have to fill out anything. Joining a higher-up progress raid might require that, but that's not in question here anyway. Once you are in the guild, don't be afraid to ask for people to join m+ dungeons.
The problem is not Group Finder. The problem is the entitlement of people using the group finder:
- Just because there is a tool does not mean, it guarantees you a spot in a group
- Just because you get declined does not mean that the community is toxic. Sometimes, it's actually because there were better options than you queuing up
- Just because it takes less of your time to queue for a group that already has heal/tank/2dps doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do. Often these groups wait for a specific 3rd dps to fill a role (Heroism, Interrupts, Stuns, CCs, etc.)
- Just because the tool allows you to join others' groups doesn't mean you cannot open your own
When you bear those things in mind, Group finder is actually pretty good.
I think difficulty isnt the problem, its the fact that blizzard tuned a few dungeons to the point where nobody wants to do them (Cathedral) Also the new affixes are more annoying than fun, I remember M+ being a lot more thrilling until grievous or explosive or bursting came along, they aren't difficult, they just make things more annoying and slow.
You just have to accept that there are these people, too. And they by definition have better gear and are better at the game because they put more effort & time into it. No need to insult them, it's their way of playing the game, you have yours.
Having a job & a life does not automatically give you the right to join groups undergeared. You should actually know this when you have a job: Just because you have private issues that prevent you from putting more effort/time into your job does not mean you will be promoted as quickly as the ones who do, right?
Love how the OP thinks that spamming Mythic + like an autistic is the normal thing to do.
No, i don't think they killed it. It's better this way. Repetition does not equal fun, on the contrary. The point was never to run multiple lows, it was for you to challenge yourself.
you have any source or data to back this up? On my servers its like searching for a needle in haystack to find guildless players, same when i use the group finder or queing tools (lets say LFR or Random heroic / Timewalking) nearly everyone is in a guild. I also never hear ppl complaining about toxic enviroments in Guilds, whenever ppl complain about toxicity in WoW its always the groupfinder or LFG tool they complain about not guilds.
Also filling out forms to join a guild? I don't know what kind of guilds you apply to, or have applied to. But the only time i had to fill out a form was when i applied to at that my realms highest rated guild and that was back in TBC. Atleast on my current realm i don't know of any guilds still using a mandatory form system to apply, its all contact a officer and have a talk on voicecoms / chat.
I reckon you might have had a bad experience when trying to find a guild, which ofc is well possible. But making bold statements that the majority of WoW players play guildless, sorry all the data i can check on that just point out the complete other direction and show that the majority of WoW players do play in guilds and are certainly not avoiding them like the plague (Atleast on EU).
Boo hoo, you can't spam lower key 3chest runs anymore.
The point of the system is to have an endlessly scaling difficulty, not to stomp through a lower difficulty for easy loot.
Not really, normal TOS contrary to m+ is not a speed race, most bosses can be done with extra healers and you won't hit enrage, KJ is harder but the rest of normal TOS is just follow tactics don't be stupid, and rightfully so, that's the intended tuning of normal, you can overgear it and zerg it disregarding some tactics but it can be done without overgearing and great dps just don't be cocky.
I joined a TOS normal pug on my 895 alt without a second legendary and I was still in the first half of dps (so at least half the dps either had less gear, traits or were worse at their classes) and we cleared up to and including Avatar (which I was worried about expecting a hard dps check, we had 1 wipe but that was due to melee not switching to maiden shield). It was a surprisingly decent pug because we had little wipes despite dps was on the low end. Ergo, you don't need amazing dps to raid normal TOS for gear upgrades.
Now m+ is a problem, if you have wipes and low-ish dps you're losing the 3rd item and lowering the key. In that aspect TOS normal is less punishing for wipes assuming people don't start ragequitting (common issue in pugs) and you have just a few wipes not stuck for ages on 1 boss, so you still kill decent amount of bosses in a reasonable timeframe.
A couple of wipes in m+ might not cost you the timer if your dps is way higher than what the dungeon demands (so you're overgearing it not running for upgrades), but when dps is mediocre or low and you have wipes, you can say goodbye to the extra item. I pugged maw14 on my tank alt and 2 dps kept dying from standing in bad, we finished the dungeon but not in time - therefore lost 33% of the loot. Now in raid you might kill the boss with some people dead and it doesn't cost you any part of the loot. You might kill it after a couple of attempts and you're getting the same amount of loot as if you 1-shot it.
The advantages of m+ are:
- if you have endless time you run out of raid bosses you aren't locked to, but you can run endless m+
- it takes less time to finish 1 dungeon than a raid so if your time to play is in smaller chunks a dungeon is more suitable to that schedule (debatable I spent once over 1,5h in lower kara pug, so not always m+ is fast depends on group, dungeon, affixes and level of key)
tried puggin my 15+ cathedral, made me decide to really actoually quit this game. no 15 key for the week. pugs were uncarriable. yea onus on me for not "auditing" good enough. but I like to give people a chance, I really regret that. literally any other key I could have carried through no problem. but second last boss of cath. literally uncarriable without 1 930 raid geared dps.
great game,
I'm sure glad they "nurfed" that place haha NOTHING's changed
I wonder how much the upper kara nerfs are worth, tried to do upper kara 15 on tyranical, in the end we had to abandon it and and try another key, had BRH 16 and it was TONS easier, the sheer disparity between the dungeon difficulty levels is astonishing.
Another example, did lower kara 10 this week on fortified and we barely +1 it, then we had eoa 14 key and it felt nearly easier, +2 that one with similar dps.
Shouldn't the key level be a good indicator of the difficulty of a dungeon? Not in case of Kara (and probably Cath but I didn't do it in med to high key at all).
OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."
And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"
It just seems like an unnecessary change, only thing that I look forward to know is the weekly cache and hopefully something good drops.
I agree that the disparity between dungeons makes it a lot less enjoyable, at least in my opinion. Cath/Kara are just stupid plus the amount of trash in lower Kara makes a lot of affixes pure aids there. But it's also that affixes themselves are so different in terms of difficulty - sanguine/volcanic is a walk in a park compared to any of the 'new and innovative' healing affixes imo. I get it that it's supposed to prevent from masspulling but it just feels so horrible and clunky and completely unavoidable (compared to volcanic, for example).
its not affixes its the dungeons - anyone runing keys knows perfeckly that there are 3 groups :
1) "good keys" - aka NL, CoS , DHT , MoS, EoA that people like to run and you have dozens of people sign up instnatly
2) "bad keys" aka HoV , BH ,Arcway,VoW that people try to ignore if only they can so you have to wait quite a bit to fill up group
3) "dead keys" aka Kara & CoEN - that people ignore completly and you can as well deplete key and start from scratch because it will be faster and more effective
if you are unlucky you can be as well as good for the week unless you have mythic raiders willing to carry you .
blizzard tuning team just sucks thats all they hsould be all fired long time ago.
Last edited by kamuimac; 2017-07-19 at 09:41 AM.