Officer who shot Philando Castile found not guilty

[docterfreeze]

Police are trained to be paranoid as fuck about everything, for good reason. You guys don't understand how quickly things can go from routine to death. Just look up videos where a traffic stop turns into a shootout to see what I mean.

So when a cop sees a gun and his directions aren't followed calmly and exactly, things will get nasty.

[Orange Joe]

Police are trained to be paranoid as fuck about everything, for good reason. You guys don't understand how quickly things can go from routine to death. Just look up videos where a traffic stop turns into a shootout to see what I mean.

So when a cop sees a gun and his directions aren't followed calmly and exactly, things will get nasty.

Less often than a roofers dies in the job.

Where is the outrage about work safety for roofers?

[docterfreeze]

Less often than a roofers dies in the job.

Where is the outrage about work safety for roofers?

Ah you missed those by about 80 years. We have OSHA now and if you die doing a traditional job it's more than likely that it was your fault.

But really, apples and oranges.

[Endus]

Police are trained to be paranoid as fuck about everything, for good reason. You guys don't understand how quickly things can go from routine to death. Just look up videos where a traffic stop turns into a shootout to see what I mean.

So when a cop sees a gun and his directions aren't followed calmly and exactly, things will get nasty.

I cited data that says otherwise. Cops don't even crack the top 10 on "most dangerous jobs in America". Roofers and farmers and construction laborers are all much more likely to die on the job, than police officers. Among others.

Plus, a lot of cops go their whole careers without ever firing their weapon.

It is not the danger-ridden hellscape that alarmists like to present it as.

[Orange Joe]

Ah you missed those by about 80 years. We have OSHA now and if you die doing a traditional job it's more than likely that it was your fault.

But really, apples and oranges.

Yet even with OHSA Roofers have a higher death rate than cops. Yet it's cops that are in more danger......

[docterfreeze]

I cited data that says otherwise. Cops don't even crack the top 10 on "most dangerous jobs in America". Roofers and farmers and construction laborers are all much more likely to die on the job, than police officers. Among others.

Plus, a lot of cops go their whole careers without ever firing their weapon.

It is not the danger-ridden hellscape that alarmists like to present it as.

We're talking about what happens when a cop is presented with a deadly situation, not how likely that is.

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Yet even with OHSA Roofers have a higher death rate than cops. Yet it's cops that are in more danger......

There are ways a roofer can prevent falling off a roof. There's no way to prevent a shootout. The cop has to put his trust into the person he's pulling over.

[Orange Joe]

We're talking about what happens when a cop is presented with a deadly situation, not how likely that is.

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There are ways a roofer can prevent falling off a roof. There's no way to prevent a shootout. The cop has to put his trust into the person he's pulling over.

How likely something is directly correlates with how you should react to it.


There very much are methods to prevent them, Deescalation is one, another is to use greater numbers to discourage them fighting in the first place.

[Moozart]

Sorry, murder is illegal.

Well considering a jury found him not guilty id go as far as to say he apparently didn't murder anyone. And you do realize at least 2 of the jurors were also black. It has also been stated that neither of those two black jurors were the ones voting against acquittal.

[shimerra]

W

There are ways a roofer can prevent falling off a roof. There's no way to prevent a shootout. The cop has to put his trust into the person he's pulling over.

Yeah there's no way to train people to handle intense situations or deescalate potentially violent ones. No alternative policing strategies that have been shown to reduce use of force.


Salt Lake City policy have had about 40 incidents where use of lethal force would've been considered justified and they've managed to successfully end each one by deescalating the situation. Try being more wrong please. But no let's just stick with your method where a cop's justified shooting you because you itched your nose instead of perfectly complying with his every order. Damn unarmed deaf man who got shot a year or so ago if only he'd been less deaf so as to make the cop not pee his pants.

[docterfreeze]

How likely something is directly correlates with how you should react to it.


There very much are methods to prevent them, Deescalation is one, another is to use greater numbers to discourage them fighting in the first place.

Let's say the way roofers prevent dying is by putting themselves in a safety harness, making sure they have secure footing, and making sure they are never off balance. A cop doesn't have preventative measures like that without being unethical. They can't approach a suspect with their gun drawn unless they have a reason to believe you're armed. Yes, it's unlikely to get into a situation where shots will be fired by either person, but if you had ONE option to prevent yourself from dying in a situation where you believed you were in danger, would you take it or just hope the odds are in your favor?

The only person who can de-escalate a potential shootout is the suspect, by putting down their weapon. The suspect is also the only one who can instigate a shootout, by reaching for/grabbing their gun.. Cops don't go into situations with a goal of getting into a shootout, unless they're insane.

[Endus]

We're talking about what happens when a cop is presented with a deadly situation, not how likely that is.

How is that relevant? This wasn't a deadly situation, and the cop killed someone regardless.

I'm never going to accept proactively killing innocents "just in case" as a reasonable argument.

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The only person who can de-escalate a potential shootout is the suspect, by putting down their weapon.

This is absolute garbage, and flies directly in the face of police training. De-escalation is their job. Not escalating violence until they win. This is why cops increasingly don't pursue high-speed chases; they cause more havoc by escalating with the chase than they would just letting the guy go. It's what hostage negotiation is about. It's why they try and talk people off ledges rather than shooting them off.

Where the heck did you get the idea that cops can't de-escalate a situation?

[docterfreeze]

How is that relevant? This wasn't a deadly situation, and the cop killed someone regardless.

I'm never going to accept proactively killing innocents "just in case" as a reasonable argument.

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This is absolute garbage, and flies directly in the face of police training. De-escalation is their job. Not escalating violence until they win. This is why cops increasingly don't pursue high-speed chases; they cause more havoc by escalating with the chase than they would just letting the guy go. It's what hostage negotiation is about. It's why they try and talk people off ledges rather than shooting them off.

Where the heck did you get the idea that cops can't de-escalate a situation?

You'd think differently if it was your life in danger. The line between innocent and not innocent gets very blury when they have a gun within arms reach and aren't following directions.

Talking someone off a ledge (and your other examples) are completely different than a potential shootout. Cmon now, be reasonable.

In the end, when all is said and done, a potential shootout is only resovled by the suspect dropping their weapon. It's what the cops scream at them nonstop for a reason.

[Endus]

You'd think differently if it was your life in danger. The line between innocent and not innocent gets very blury when they have a gun within arms reach and aren't following directions.

I feel like a broken record at this point.

The cops life was not in danger. At any point. The guy he shot was nonviolent and never posed any kind of threat whatsoever. The ONLY thing making the cop feel afraid was his incompetence and paranoia. Incompetence, because if he suspected the guy of felony armed robbery, a traffic stop is not how you proceed in the first place, and paranoia for imagining threats that did not ever exist.

If officers shooting innocent civilians who pose no threat is "okay" for this reason, then you're essentially arguing that any citizen should be free to shoot any officer dead during a traffic stop, legally. Because the officer might kill them, as in this and other cases. And the officer's armed. Heck, he's probably even drawing his weapon. By your arguments, the citizen is lawfully entitled to kill that officer pre-emptively, just in case.

If it works in the cop's favor, it works for the civilian, too.

[Deleted]

It's really worrying that something like that could happen in a civilized country. I can understand that shit like that can happen in less civilized countries like Russia or Saudi Arabia but that it could happen in the US, the leading country in human rights, freedom and justice is mind boggling.

I really hope the US improve rapidly how they treat their minorities. Some cases are sickening.

Not sure if you are for real. I guess that's what brainwashed American sounds like.

That shit doesn't happen in other countries, except for countries torn by war. In Russia cops are pretty much powerless, the only time they use weapon is to shoot tires in car chase. Corrupted jury? Sure, that happens a lot there. Shootings and trigger happy cops? Never. Don't know much about SA, so can't comment on that (and you shouldn't either because you clearly know nothing).

US is leading country in human rights, blah blah blah? Give me a break. Most EU countries will beat US on any of those metrics. Guantanamo Bay, constant black/white shootings, ghettos, laws made to suit corporations rather than people, more people in prison per capita than in other countries and you dare to claim your country is civilized? Give me a break.

[docterfreeze]

I feel like a broken record at this point.

The cops life was not in danger. At any point. The guy he shot was nonviolent and never posed any kind of threat whatsoever. The ONLY thing making the cop feel afraid was his incompetence and paranoia. Incompetence, because if he suspected the guy of felony armed robbery, a traffic stop is not how you proceed in the first place, and paranoia for imagining threats that did not ever exist.

The suspect had a gun within arms reach. Cop said not to reach for the gun. He reached for it. Do you see the threat?

Sorry if you feel like a broken record, you haven't shown that you understand the situation from the cop's PoV, so I must repeat my points.

[Endus]

The suspect had a gun within arms reach. Cop said not to reach for the gun. He reached for it. Do you see the threat?

The bit in bold is not true. He, in fact, specifically informed the officer that he wasn't. So no.

Not unless you're arguing that literally any armed person is a threat, in which case, I remind you that this means any civilian is entitled to kill any cop that bothers them, "just in case". Which is obviously ridiculous. I'm just pointing out it isn't magically less ridiculous the other way around.

[docterfreeze]

US is leading country in human rights, blah blah blah? Give me a break. Most EU countries will beat US on any of those metrics. Guantanamo Bay, constant black/white shootings, ghettos, laws made to suit corporations rather than people, more people in prison per capita than in other countries and you dare to claim your country is civilized? Give me a break.

Most EU countries are ethnically homogenous. Of course they'd have better crime statistics.

[Kellhound]

Well considering a jury found him not guilty id go as far as to say he apparently didn't murder anyone. And you do realize at least 2 of the jurors were also black. It has also been stated that neither of those two black jurors were the ones voting against acquittal.

Not guilty does not mean innocent.

[DarkAztaroth]

I feel like a broken record at this point.

The cops life was not in danger. At any point. The guy he shot was nonviolent and never posed any kind of threat whatsoever. The ONLY thing making the cop feel afraid was his incompetence and paranoia. Incompetence, because if he suspected the guy of felony armed robbery, a traffic stop is not how you proceed in the first place, and paranoia for imagining threats that did not ever exist.

US vs Canada, do keep that in mind. The police over there are given as you're saying ''carte blanche'' to kill to defend themselves because they might die pretty fast if shot too.

Over here, cops rarely feel threatened, handguns aren't really that easily available.

What's important is not if the cop's life was in danger or not really, the point is mostly that he FELT his life was in danger, the cop didn't see the future. You can't really ask a human not to be nervous when someone's potentially reaching for a deadly weapon.

What the officer knew was that - the person just said he was armed - was reaching for something and he could not see his hands - refused to stop reaching after being told to stop. This should be considered a threat.

Seriously, saying you have a gun and putting your hands anywhere he can't see them is a bad idea. I mean, if someone you don't know tell you he has a knife or a gun and start reaching for - whatever - you're probably gonna feel pretty nervous too, no matter if he's reaching for chewing gum or it is to scratch himself.
He has no way to tell what the guy is reaching for, the best the cop could have done overall in this situation was to be more precise and specifically to stop moving, it doesn't take long to shoot a gun either so he couldn't really f* around.

Prolly shouldn't compare to Canada the situation is not the same here and there at all. Here people are extremely unlikely to pull out a gun, no matter what, but really, if it was a gun there, and the police officer would do as you ask, he could have been dead instead, yes now we know it was no weapon, but he didn't. Not much of a win either. Yes someone is dead, but blaming the police officer in this situation is a bit too much.

[Deleted]

Most EU countries are ethnically homogenous. Of course they'd have better crime statistics.

Fair enough. But that doesn't invalidate my point about US not being leading country in any of those things mentioned.