German police raid 36 homes over hateful postings on social media

[Holofernes]

Insane thought. Everyone knows that the "Police" can only ever do one thing at a time. It's one single person, after all.



On a more serious note, this is Germany for ya. We can enjoy almost unlimited freedom on our Autobahn, but don't you dare troll on the Internet, the police is gonna dun you goofed.

its not about "trolling" its about hate speech, insult / Inciting hate / denying holcaust, all stuff that WILL bring people in prison in germany even if they say it online.

[derpkitteh]

Actually, from what I read in German sources, some of those incidents were related to targeted attacks and threats. The fact of the matter is that we do not really know what those messages were and their severity. The news obviously would not repeat the messages, so we naturally cannot know.

they should, the public should be informed what people were arrested for.

if it's direct threats of violence, yes, something should be done to stop that. that's no different than stopping a terrorist attack in the planning.

but if it's simply thinking that certain people should die, then no. that shouldn't be silenced. it's not cool at all, i wish people didn't think that way. but they do, and that shouldn't be stopped by force.

passively changing people's minds? that's a-ok, get out and do that.

[Runenwächter]

A government advocating for tolerance towards group X is hypocrisy of the highest order and unacceptable. The law of the land is changeable and most of it is a list of aggreed upon social norms and behaviours. Tolerance means willfully suffering something that disregards social norms, this can even include illegal actions. Social norms are formed by what is accepted and what is not. Passive acceptance and tolerance are indistinguishable from another. When the government pushes a campain "to extend tolerance" towards a specific set of behaviour or group that lies and acts outside of social norms, the government is pushing a precursor to a change in law. It is a artificially induced attempt to reshape ethics, morality, culture and even ethnicity.

[Holofernes]

phonecalls and letters are direct threats.

again, it's "i'm gonna kill you" vs. "X should all be killed". one is a direct threat, one is support for killing but not a direct threat. now, there's also "lets go kill us some X" that would be a direct threat of violence, not against a specific person, but a group. therefore, that's an actionable threat.

call for genocide is illegal in germany. Insulting someone is seen as a crime against a person, similar to shooting it with a gun.

But in germany, its not forbidden to call Neger Neger or "chocolate". Because thats what they look like, so its not an insult or a crime to call a thing by what it is.

The freedom of speech is limited where it touches the freedom and dignity of a person, because the freedom and dignity of a person is the highest good in german law.

[Kiri]

they should, the public should be informed what people were arrested for.

if it's direct threats of violence, yes, something should be done to stop that. that's no different than stopping a terrorist attack in the planning.

but if it's simply thinking that certain people should die, then no. that shouldn't be silenced. it's not cool at all, i wish people didn't think that way. but they do, and that shouldn't be stopped by force.

passively changing people's minds? that's a-ok, get out and do that.

I am not sure if they should, to be honest. I mean, these people clearly wanted exposure by posting it on the net. The media picking it up and repeating it for prime time would be a reward in that case, make them martyrs at worst.

[Sharein]

What is the problem exactly?

The reincarnation of the stasi.

[Runenwächter]

call for genocide is illegal in germany. Insulting someone is seen as a crime against a person, similar to shooting it with a gun.

"X should all be killed" is not a call for genocide. The sentence does not include a call to action. To any action. You can argue that the expression has or is capable of harming the dignity of the individuals of said group. You can of course refuse to acknowledge that the state has to present proof that said harm to a groups dignity could have been cause by the statement in question that said harm to dignity has occured, as some judges have in the past. Thats just the judge fucking the accused over, they know the verdict wont survive the next instance but by that time sufficient harm (financial, social, stress) has already been caused.

Also insults are a differnt matter legaly and the BVerfG has in the past drawn the line very wide for the individual to express themselves and that court is the authority in these matters. Political comedy wouldnt exist otherwise.

[Halicia]

This just in... the country that won't allow Nazi symbols and imagery in videogames is tough on hate speech.

[Cruor]

Unreal. The USA needs to step in and crush Germany for a 3rd time to support right wingers rights. We can import the right wing citizens to the USA and burn what's left (in both senses of the word left) down.

Germany seemed like a nice place when I was there I had no idea they had gone this insane.

[dd614]

Why on earth would you want the government to have the authority to decide if your words are "hateful" enough to send you to jail?

Because the people who support these kind of police state laws tend to a) have poor mental capacity and can't foresee consequences of such laws or b) awful people at heart that want to control what others can say or even think.

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Unreal. The USA needs to step in and crush Germany for a 3rd time to support right wingers rights. We can import the right wing citizens to the USA and burn what's left (in both senses of the word left) down.

Germany seemed like a nice place when I was there I had no idea they had gone this insane.

It's not really a left or right issue. Both left and right should support free speech. Merkel's Germany does not support freedom of speech and is dictatorial.

[Realitytrembles]

Absolutely disgusting. Shame on those who support this.

In her work Friends of Voltaire, Evelyn Beatrice Hall wrote the following (which is often misattributed to Voltaire himself):

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Criminalizing anything other than libel/slander, a direct & credible death threat, or immediate incitement to riot is a revolting betrayal of freedom.

[Powerogue]

It's hard to gauge whether this was over the top because they don't appear to link to what the "hateful postings" actually were. I definitely think though that such rulings should be as lax as possible to avoid a police state where the government dictates what you can and cannot say. Such as, say, "hate speech" (harmless criticism) of the government.

Unreal. The USA needs to step in and crush Germany for a 3rd time to support right wingers rights. We can import the right wing citizens to the USA and burn what's left (in both senses of the word left) down.
Germany seemed like a nice place when I was there I had no idea they had gone this insane.

"Let's invade Germany purely because they disagree with our stance on freedom of speech." o_O

[Cruor]

You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm a Kommando Spezialkräfte. Also known as a german rambo.

I bring that experience into the internet, so i'm also a keyboard warrior

So what the he'll happened to your country then? You guys were badass from like 500 bc to 1945 and now the biggest liberal pc maniacs around. I can't imagie the elite fighting forces being liberal. Fighters/killers and liberal does not mix. The only fighting liberals can do is burning trash cans with a mask on. Why haven't your special forces thrown your leadership out yet?

[Krigaren]

This just in... the country that won't allow Nazi symbols and imagery in videogames is tough on hate speech.

It's almost as though they're trying really hard to not have a repeat of the 1930s-40s.

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they should, the public should be informed what people were arrested for.

No one was arrested.

[Darkeon]

Fascism is bad. So we'll hunt down everyone who holds different views than ours!

[Aggrophobic]

no problem with making threats or "forcing" people to do stuff against their will.....that stuff is generally unlawful anywhere. Its the "HATE SPEECH" idea i take issue with. There is no such thing as hate speech. The concept is totalitarian in conception and no modern "free" society should tolerate jailing people over saying nasty or offensive things.

Calling for the extermination of minorities was one of the main ideas of the regime that brought you WWII. Germany is not all that proud of that and would rather it did not happen again. It is not hard to see why, is it?

There is definitely something called hate speech. It is well defined and illegal in large parts of the world. In many cases the goal is to incite violence and that is why it is not legal.

[ranzino]

No one was arrested.

Now wait for it. If nobody or very few appear at court; why raid them ? it stinks of overreaction then.

[Deleted]

We hear a lot of talk about how America is losing its place as the most liberated and free country in the world to Germany. What a joke. This is a flagrant attack on the German people's right to free speech. This would never be tolerated by Americans, and as for Germany, it's happening again. Learn from your history and fight against the Government attacking your liberty.

[Tiwack]

Good. You can't threaten people and expect no consequences. Even on social media. Spreading hate and belittling people is just sad behavior that says more about the hater than the hated. What people do for fame and fortune these days... Tragic that people refuse to wise up but instead take the easy road to become a sucker for someone else's agenda.

[Deleted]

Calling for the extermination of minorities was one of the main ideas of the regime that brought you WWII. Germany is not all that proud of that and would rather it did not happen again. It is not hard to see why, is it?

There is definitely something called hate speech. It is well defined and illegal in large parts of the world. In many cases the goal is to incite violence and that is why it is not legal.

Germany should show that they're against nazism and totalitarianism by actively promoting liberty for all. Not by destroying their rights to free speech. This is nothing but a totalitarian Government taking rights and power from the people.

By trying to erase German history and freedom of speech, Germany is proving to the world that it did not learn its lesson.

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Absolutely disgusting. Shame on those who support this.

In her work Friends of Voltaire, Evelyn Beatrice Hall wrote the following (which is often misattributed to Voltaire himself):

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Criminalizing anything other than libel/slander, a direct & credible death threat, or immediate incitement to riot is a revolting betrayal of freedom.

This is sadly the direction Europe and the American left is heading. Erasing freedom of speech and history to protect their feelings. Instead of being honest about the past, and intellectual about morally reprehensible ideas, they have decided to ban them. The future of Europe is getting bleaker.