Missouri to lower minimum wage from $10 to $7.70

[Zan15]

I'll admit, it's kind of depressing seeing that unskilled labor jobs can easily make more than I do in other parts of the world after all the training, schooling, and experience I've needed to get where I am. T_T But all I can do is wish them well and congratulate them on a better economy.

98% of this country has not seen wage growth in the last 20 years, its not just the min wage workers.

but the rich and corporations like to make the poor and middle class fight with each other so they keep their eyes off them, while they walk away with all the loot.

[Zan15]

Lowering wages will help deflate prices in Missouri, and it's already quite a bit, besides low skilled labor work doesn't deserve $10 an hour.

HAHAHAHAH
AHAH
AHAHA
HAHAH

you think they are going to reduce prices because their labor cost went down.....

hahahahahahah

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Funny how ppl think increasing the minimum wage automatically means ppl will make more money. Any company that can't afford to pay more than minimum wage or is unwillingly to pay more will simply cut hours and/or benefits to compensate.

Something similar happened in my state where they tried to lower the required hours to be a full time employee from 35 to 30. All that ended up happening is those companies cut hours from 34 to 29. Hurting those part time workers who needed those hours.

And tbh if ur working for somewhere that is only playing minimum wage, u need to find a new job or work towards getting the skills needed to get a better job. No amount of legislation will fix that job from being shitty. U r the only one who can improve ur life. Neither democrats or republicans care enough about u to improve ur life.

So then based on the 20 or so min wage increases nationally, or states with even more increases past the national min wage those workers should be averaging about what, 5-10 hours a week by now.....

but for some reason that has not happened? waaaaaaaaaat? but you said....companies will cut back....

[Nfinitii]

HAHAHAHAH
AHAH
AHAHA
HAHAH

you think they are going to reduce prices because their labor cost went down.....

hahahahahahah

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So then based on the 20 or so min wage increases nationally, or states with even more increases past the national min wage those workers should be averaging about what, 5-10 hours a week by now.....

but for some reason that has not happened? waaaaaaaaaat? but you said....companies will cut back....

Most minimum wage increases r not as drastic as $3, or up to $15 which was the "magic" number thrown around during the election which is almost double some states minimum wage. Here in Florida the minimum wage hasn't even increased by $3 total in the 12+ years I've been working. Should it be more? Sure, but if ur waiting on some magical leglislation by some rich politician to pull u out poverty u r going to be waiting a long time.

[Wyrt]

Lowering wages will help deflate prices in Missouri, and it's already quite a bit, besides low skilled labor work doesn't deserve $10 an hour.

Yeah, that money savings will trickle right on down into the CEO's pockets.

[want my Slimjim]

HAHAHAHAH
AHAH
AHAHA
HAHAH

you think they are going to reduce prices because their labor cost went down.....

hahahahahahah

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So then based on the 20 or so min wage increases nationally, or states with even more increases past the national min wage those workers should be averaging about what, 5-10 hours a week by now.....

but for some reason that has not happened? waaaaaaaaaat? but you said....companies will cut back....

They do, 10 char?

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Yeah, that money savings will trickle right on down into the CEO's pockets.

It'll trickle down to everyone else aswell. The money they receive goes to their business, they use a small portion for themselves, that's how a businessman survives.

[shimerra]

It'll trickle down to everyone else aswell.

The ever increasing gap between the top earners and the bottom disagrees with you and has for decades. Economic reality is difficulty to comprehend but if you'd like I can give you private lessons.

[Wyrt]

It'll trickle down to everyone else aswell. The money they receive goes to their business, they use a small portion for themselves, that's how a businessman survives.

Right, how'd that trickle down work out in Kansas again?

[Zantos]

Not knowing the usa, is that state one of those "special" states?

No. Its not. Missouri typically makes good choices. This is also only 1 of the cities and its only been around for 2 months tops.

On topic: Not much of an impact. The raise was only around like 2 months. I would be more angry at any company that purposefully Fires or Reduces the wages that the employees have now. Not only that, its in 1 city. Not several. So the title is a bit misleading since it could be taken as the entire state when it was just one area.

The reasoning is also sound. They looked at Seattle and saw how the average worker Lost $125 after the wage increase because businesses had to cut people or hours. I don't see the harm it taking raises slow instead of a huge jump so quickly. Give it time to sink in and watch what happens.

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Right, how'd that trickle down work out in Kansas again?

Or in Seattle

[shimerra]

I have not insulted you or called you names. Why not just be civil, instead? Reading some words you disagree with is certainly no reason to get all excited and go full caps mode.

Maybe instead of attacking me, explain why you think $15 is a good figure, given that it doubles the status quo?

Does it bother you that Democrats are asking for a poison pill figure, in order to paint Republicans as "mean", thereby using the poorest workers as a bargaining chip they never intend to cash in? Does it bother you that they have no intention of working on this problem, given that they refuse to discuss any figure, other than $15?

You've insulted the argument because you do the exact same 2 year old bullshit you did in any other argument. The HUR DUR EVERYONE SHOULD MAKE UMPTEEN HUDERED DOLLARS AN HOUR is an idiotic caricature. You claim to be better than that. Act like it. And until you can don't you dare by the massive hypocrite you always are and try and accuse me, or others, of not being civil. I've watched you piss and moan about Endus responding to you because you were too stupid to put on on ignore but you clogged up pages upon pages of thread crying because he had the gall to quote you on a public forum. If you want to have the gal to do that to anyone start acting civil yourself and not the faux civility which is really smug condescension you usually employ whipping out the victim complex when you're backed into a corner.


I went full caps because I was mocking the stupidity of what you said. No other reason other than to highlight the stupidity and intellectual dishonesty of your argument. And make no mistake what you said was stereotypical hyperbolic republican BS in a boorish attempt at reducto ad absurdum for the "left's argument". Maybe instead of your typical uninformed posts that are nothing more than lock stock right wing propoganda tell you is bad actually go of of statistically based analysis and support your claims. You keep telling people to read an econ 101 book, well I've got econ 600 and 700 courses under my belt.

What bothers me is people like yourself continuously demean and demagogue the lower income earners while sucking the dicks of the top earners exalting their thievery and exploration of the system while focusing every ounce of your ire on the "welfare queen" the gets away with one millionth of the thievery the top income earners get away with legally because of long disproved supply side economics bullshit.


It's simple folks like you rant and rail about how increasing the minimum wage will be a nuclear bomb to the economy and yet when the minimum wage was literally increased by almost double the economy boomed and real purchasing power for the american middle class family was at an all time high. By ever conceivable metric including the laziest of all of them simple inflation adjustment the American worker is getting paid less to do more work than at any point in the last 50 years. Productivity in the last few decades has outstripped wage growth consistently and long term. The main reason why the middle class family isn't getting crushed similarly is because of women entering the workforce and the dual family income. My brother a respectable military man would have to think twice about having a single child in today's reality on a single income, my grandpa easily supported a family of four on a single income. If you prefer the anecdotal evidence.

Ceo salary since the 90's has ballooned by over a thousand percent. But god forbid the lower end gets raised to 15$ an hour. That'll ruin us!

[Glorious Leader]

Lowering wages will help deflate prices in Missouri, and it's already quite a bit, besides low skilled labor work doesn't deserve $10 an hour.

This is the usual retarded conservative economics. It ignores basically all of reality. Ask yourself a very simple question. What happens to the debts of people living in deflation?

[Zantos]

but god forbid the lower end gets raised to 15$ an hour. That'll ruin us!

It is in Seattle. In Seattle, the average worker who was getting minimum wage before and after the increase is actually getting LESS money now, by $125 a month, that's $1,500 a year. In the earlier days, it worked. however, it didn't work in seattle. Small businesses can't keep up, and that is where a lot of the workers are. I know that at the store I used to work at, I would have gotten less money too since they would have started cutting peoples hours left and right to keep costs down.

The economy today is a very different beast. You can't just increase minimum wage over night and expect it to work out well. Its been proven with the one city to do that so far. I won't speculate as to why its had such a negative impact, since I simply don't know. However, its clearly not going to work well if done all at once.You have to space it out. Give people time to build up their wealth and spending power. If the business suddenly has more cost, they have to start paying right away. People wont be spending right away, theyll be paying off debts and bills first.

[Slybak]

Because not all small business owners are bastards? I mean are you going off an assumption that once you have are able to hire another person you automatically become a bastion of greed and evil? If so, I can tell you that's not correct. There are some small business owners who are good people.

So the difference between a Virtuous Business Owner providing charity employment and a Virtuous Business Owner being incentivized to go against their magnanimous nature and lay off an employee is... 40-80 dollars a week within a given fiscal year? Because that is the level of employee costs that you're assuming they'll be unable to accommodate if the minimum wage is increased and be forced to either cut hours or lay someone off.

Often times small business owners run in the red, and based on incoming business already have to cut employees and hours. These guys aren't running some giant profit margin. Typically any profits they get are used to grow their business and hire more employees. There are also many times that those owners have months where they make less money than some of the people they employ.

This doesn't exactly counter my point that businesses that utilize low-wage labor often have to maintain a degree of flexibility to deal with unexpected shifts in the market or needed changes in their operations, and that periodic increases in the minimum wage fall well within the changes that are navigable.

They often know all their employees and have, to one degree or another, a personal relationship with them. Their goal is to maintain some semblance of a profit and they'll pay their employees as well as their business model allows. For some of those employees, that's still going to be at or close to minimum wage.

If that is the case, then what is the moral utility of allowing such a business model to survive? If, as you suggest, there are businesses that depend on paying a less than living wage (which I don't doubt, though they tend to be the "giant megacorporation" model and not the little mom and pop shop), I would consider it a social responsibility to snuff them out.

This type of legislation is small business killers, and all you'll be left with are the giant mega corporations which you hate, who don't care one way or the other about you or your minimum wage hike, as they are offshoring the majority of their labor regardless, for pennies on the dollar.

Businesses offshore far more because of favorable exchange rates than pure labor costs and, again, its neither small businesses nor businesses that rely on a poverty wage model to survive that are doing it.

It's hard to isolate the real impact of minimum wage, and one reason for that is because many states increase the minimum wage in small intervals to begin with. It seems self-evident that the data you're likely to find will be small too, but the link is there. Why stagger the increases at all if the impact is marginal at best? I think the answer is obvious, because people are aware that bigger increases have bigger impacts on minimum wage employment. The place I think it's most glaring is in teenage employment rates, which always suffer when the minimum wage is increased.

While I have little doubt that there would be a link between increased unemployment and increasing the minimum wage by, say, $50 an hour over a three month time frame, its a complete red herring.

The place I think it's most glaring is in teenage employment rates, which always suffer when the minimum wage is increased.

Of course that would be the most glaring, because the only sector the meta-analysis on the minimum wage shows a perceptible increase in the unemployment rate is among teenaged workers. And most of the studies within that analysis only show an increase of 1-2%; that is, a 1% increase in the number of teenagers who were unemployed after a minimum wage increase, not a 1% reduction in the number of teenagers employed.

Why aren't businesses cutting hours and letting employees go? They already are, and have been for quite some time. Like I said earlier in the thread, minimum wage jobs have been slowly replaced with automation and self-service, and will continue regardless of increases and decreases in mandated wages.

Then its rather irrelevant to the discussion.

My main argument when I get into this topic is why focus on a higher minimum wage at all, when something like a universal income, or negative income tax, could help min-wage workers while avoiding the unemployment argument altogether. The Rand Paul types are going to fight you no matter what you try to do for min wage workers. Why not just go for best solution instead of trying to meet them halfway, which they will never do.

The "Rand Paul types" is a narrowing the opposition far more than necessary, as the Republican Party base writ large is entirely populated with Social Darwinists who not only oppose the existence of the minimum wage entirely but oppose, often with greater ferocity, social dividend policies such as UBI. They believe the poor ought to suffer as it is their social punishment for lacking of any number of imagined virtues that their ideology has tethered to economic security; not smart enough, not motivated enough, not "blessed" enough, not white enough, etc. There will be no placating them, no matter what the policy.

[want my Slimjim]

This is the usual retarded conservative economics. It ignores basically all of reality. Ask yourself a very simple question. What happens to the debts of people living in deflation?

A simple min wage increase will somehow make the economy and the quality of life better. The usual retarded liberal economics.

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It is in Seattle. In Seattle, the average worker who was getting minimum wage before and after the increase is actually getting LESS money now, by $125 a month, that's $1,500 a year. In the earlier days, it worked. however, it didn't work in seattle. Small businesses can't keep up, and that is where a lot of the workers are. I know that at the store I used to work at, I would have gotten less money too since they would have started cutting peoples hours left and right to keep costs down.

The economy today is a very different beast. You can't just increase minimum wage over night and expect it to work out well. Its been proven with the one city to do that so far. I won't speculate as to why its had such a negative impact, since I simply don't know. However, its clearly not going to work well if done all at once.You have to space it out. Give people time to build up their wealth and spending power. If the business suddenly has more cost, they have to start paying right away. People wont be spending right away, theyll be paying off debts and bills first.

Seattle is fucked, their taxes are getting wasted on homeless methheads by making these safe spaces for them to do their crack. Send them all to jail I'd say with a longer sentence of 10 years or more

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Right, how'd that trickle down work out in Kansas again?

It's working well

[Flarelaine]

Not knowing the usa, is that state one of those "special" states?

They used to keep slaves if that's what you mean. And apparently they haven't entirely given up on the idea.

[Wyrt]

It's working well

Is that why they're having to go around the governor to pass tax increases?

[Flarelaine]

Care to explain or just going to be smug?

Burner accounts aren't here to explain.

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If minimum wage increases, employment will fall. If minimum wage decreases employment will increase. Elasticity of employment = %change in quantity of labor (divided by) %change in wage.

In light of recent minimum wage hikes, I am sure you can support your claim with statistics.

[SinAscendant]

The reasoning is also sound. They looked at Seattle and saw how the average worker Lost $125 after the wage increase because businesses had to cut people or hours. I don't see the harm it taking raises slow instead of a huge jump so quickly. Give it time to sink in and watch what happens.

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Or in Seattle

Have you actually read the study?

It clearly adds the addendum "by single-location Seattle businesses". So yeah, people at a place with only one location, tiny businesses, got their hours cut.

However, the majority of workers, who work at say retail, corporate, etc etc locations, were unaffected.

That study was insanely inaccurate anyway; it also concluded that the min wage increase caused a jump in jobs making over $19 an hour by something like 10% which makes no sense at all.

https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...-minimum-wage/

So you're saying that one single study, that excludes 48% of minimum wage earners, and that does not account for any other confounding factors whatsoever, somehow can be extrapolated to apply to the whole country?

And you think this single study is somehow more applicable than the dozens of other studies that say the opposite?

Let me guess, you don't believe in global warming either, do you?

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A simple min wage increase will somehow make the economy and the quality of life better. The usual retarded liberal economics.

Yes, generally being able to pay your bills, go to the doctor, and eat something besides Hamburger Helper does make your quality of life better, thanks for understanding!

[Flarelaine]

Why the fuck is a mother flipping burgers? What choices did she make to wind up single with two kids and zero skills? Sorry I have zero sympathy if someone is this retarded to fuck it their life like that. Even that woman can do something to earn more than minimum wage. Hell she seems good at sucking dick

Do you eve read what you reply to? Wait, I'll help:

But let's just say a former stay at home single mom where the dad died in Iraq with two young kids.

Beyond being apparently stuck in write-only mode, the rest of your comment also makes it clear you are a toxic cunt.

Mods, bring it on.

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There are better jobs ... you may have to move to get one though

That idea was pitched to Rust Belt folks as well and was sure enough to get Trump elected.

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Thats odd, min wage has not increased here, yet i just walked into walmart and they just installed 5 self scanners. grocery store has had them for 10+ years.....

Where are they being laid off because based on the BLS food service industry, specifically fast food is at record employment levels...

I make it a point to never use automated scanners. As long as there is a choice, anyhow.

[Stelio Kontos]

I do have to say I sort of look forward to automated ordering at fast food places.

How hard is it to not put onions on something when I make it clear every. goddamn. time?

[Flarelaine]

Somethings are better done without the imput of the uninformed sheep...

Either that or Start requiring IQ tests to vote and only people over like 110-120 IQ can vote.

Now that is something I'm curious to see.