When and why exactly did Arthas turn evil?

[Zulkhan]

That what he had done to win

I'm sorry but it's hard to understand what the fuck you're saying. But if you mean if I would have considered his actions evil if he won well yes, his was a borderline psychopathic behavior. And guess what, it didn't lead to any victory.

Yes your right he wasnt a good person but he wasnt evil which was the point of this thread.

He didn't start as a literally evil person but always had red flags in his personality showing the potential of doing ruthless shit. Ner'zhul pressured Arthas in a way that the worst of him would surface and from that moment on, Arthas proved to be quite an evil person once all the nobility was stripped away from him.

Had Arthas not picked up the sword which took his soul had he come back triumphant with the corpse of Mal'ganis then every bad thing he did leading up to it wouldve been swept under a rug and forgetten as a mere footnote.

The perspective of other people wouldn't have changed what he proved to be. The question here was when Arthas eventually turned evil, not which opinion people had of his persona.

[yetgdhfgh]

I'm sorry but it's hard to understand what the fuck you're saying. But if you mean if I would have considered his actions evil if he won well yes, his was a borderline psychopathic behavior. And guess what, it didn't lead to any victory.

I forgot repeating myself is a thing on MMO but did you ever google Total War?

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He didn't start as a literally evil person but always had red flags in his personality showing the potential of doing ruthless shit. Ner'zhul pressured Arthas in a way that the worst of him would surface and from that moment on, Arthas proved to be quite an evil person once all the nobility was stripped away from him.

Ruthless shit like Ghengis Khan who has a fucking massive statue dedicated to himself?

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The perspective of other people wouldn't have changed what he proved to be. The question here was when Arthas eventually turned evil, not which opinion people had of his persona.

You havent proved shit

Had Arthas won would he have started gassing Gnolls? NO all he did was kill some mercs and came home with Mal'ganis body and be hailed a hero like he was in that fucking video!!! But no the Lich king fucking took him and made him into what he became!

[Zulkhan]

I forgot repeating myself is a thing on MMO but did you ever google Total War?

Again, Arthas was not fighting a war. He wasn't acting in his kingdom's name. Arthas was leading a personal and selfish crusade by exploiting the power that his title and reputation granted him. Arguing about the nuances of the "art of war" is not really that relevant on the end of the day.

Ruthless shit like Ghengis Khan who has a fucking massive statue dedicated to himself?

Your idea of evil is entirely tied on what history recorded and history is rarely written by unbiased hands. I prefer a more psychological approach to that, one that judges what lies within a person's mind. More accurate and unbiased than any historical recording.

[yetgdhfgh]

Again, Arthas was not fighting a war. He wasn't acting in his kingdom's name. Arthas was leading a personal and selfish crusade by exploiting the power that his title and reputation granted him. Arguing about the nuances of the "art of war" is not really that relevant on the end of the day.

Perhaps but like i posted history is written by the winners it doesnt make him evil.

[Zulkhan]

You havent proved shit

Had Arthas won would he have started gassing Gnolls? NO all he did was kill some mercs and came home with Mal'ganis body and be hailed a hero like he was in that fucking video!!! But no the Lich king fucking took him and made him into what he became!

He didn't kill the mercenaries. He lied and deceived his own men into killing them, turning them into murderers without them ever knowing. Spot the difference.

That's straight up psychopathic behavior. You aren't going to convince me any time soon that there's no "evil" in that kind of conduct.

[Deleted]

I feel like we the adventurer have killed as many as Arthus had at statholme by this point even in lore, are we evil? everything we do is in the name of ending the burning legion, ultimately, was Arthus not also doing this too even if he wasnt aware of the grander scale of things?

[Zulkhan]

Perhaps but like i posted history is written by the winners it doesnt make him evil.

His kingdom didn't consider him evil because it was ignorant. It knew nothing of what he actually did in Northrend. It's surely easier to accept the glory coming from victory when all the henious details are shrugged beneath the carpet.

[Aquamonkey]

I feel like we the adventurer have killed as many as Arthus had at statholme by this point even in lore, are we evil? everything we do is in the name of ending the burning legion, ultimately, was Arthus not also doing this too even if he wasnt aware of the grander scale of things?

I'm pretty sure the players didn't murder innocent civilians while they were still human.

[yetgdhfgh]

His kingdom didn't consider him evil because it was ignorant. It knew nothing of what he actually did in Northrend. It's surely easier to accept the glory coming from victory when all the henious details are shrugged beneath the carpet.

Isnt that like every other history of the world?

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I'm pretty sure the players didn't murder innocent civilians while they were still human.

PVP Server YO!!!!

[Aquamonkey]

PVP Server YO!!!!

Players aren't innocent civilians. Didn't Blizzard remove dishonorable kills years ago?

[yetgdhfgh]

Players aren't innocent civilians. Didn't Blizzard remove dishonorable kills years ago?

Unfortunately yes!!

[Zulkhan]

And we are discussing World of Warcraft written by Chris Metzen and some interns?

Actually, we're effectively discussing the psychology of a character, as far as "psychology" can be applied on fictional characters. The OP wanted to understand when Arthas seemed to reach the point of no return in his characterization and "road to darkness". It had shit to do with the opinion of what ignorant people may or may not have of him.

Erm he flat out tells them to you want me to post the video?

He flat outs lie to them you mean? He blamed the burning of the ships on the mercenaries and utterly omitted the fact that those were mercenaries that fought for him in the first place.

Isnt that like every other history of the world?

Kind of. However an ignorant opinion is still an ignorant opinion. Whoever knew the truth also knew that Arthas revealed himself to be a borderline psychopath.

[Grimo]

What makes Arthas a good character is that he did everything he wanted to WITHOUT any "sha corruption" or "the old gods did it" nonsense that plagues other characters.

You can say Ner'zhul influenced him, sure... but in the end, Arthas got what he wanted out of that arrangement. Arthas defeated Ner'zhul and took over the mantle of Lich King.

Kel'thuzad, who had destroyed his homeland, became Arthas' servant.

Uther, who kicked him out of the Knights of the Silver Hand, was bested by Arthas.

Mal'Ganis, who had kill his countrymen and taunted him, was destroyed.

And he wasn't just going to have lordaeron as a kingdom; he was going to have ALL of Azeroth as his kingdom.


Sounds like Arthas got everything he wanted to me.

Well until he died

If only this were true, but it has been stated repeatedly that Frostmourne lolcorrupted him

[yetgdhfgh]

Actually, we're effectively discussing the psychology of a character, as far as "psychology" can be applied on fictional characters. The OP wanted to understand when Arthas seemed to reach the point of no return in his characterization and "road to darkness". It had shit to do with the opinion of what ignorant people may or may not have of him.

Yes and i made my point clear i made my point so clear its on at least 3 pages.

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He flat outs lie to them you mean? He blamed the burning of the ships on the mercenaries and utterly omitted the fact that those were mercenaries that fought for him in the first place.

That was cross-purposes damn you alcohol and pain killers!!! thats why i deleted it

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Kind of. However an ignorant opinion is still an ignorant opinion. Whoever knew the truth also knew that Arthas revealed himself to be a borderline psychopath.

Please elaborate when you say ignorant opinion? I always love it when people post these!

[Cizr]

When he took Frostmourne and killed his own men with it. Then again it stole his soul. Was he even responsible for his actions after that point?

[Zig Zug]

When he succeeded his father.

Well probably before that, but it felt really cool to say that.

[MrKnubbles]

I believe it happened as soon as he picked up Frostmorne. The effects may not have been noticeable right away but that's when I believe the evil slowly started taking over.

[Friendlyimmolation]

If only this were true, but it has been stated repeatedly that Frostmourne lolcorrupted him

The book goes into detail on how he kept his conscious, but forcibly shoved it down because he "couldnt let regret eat at him"

[Zulkhan]

Yes and i made my point clear i made my point so clear its on at least 3 pages

So, whatever I guess?

That was cross-purposes damn you alcohol and pain killers!!! thats why i deleted it

Oh boy.

Please elaborate when you say ignorant opinion? I always love it when people post these!

I don't mean you, I mean those who judge a certain character while not possessing the full story and knowledge of that person at hand. This makes them ignorant and their opinions consequently ignorant too.

[Deleted]

Burning the ships in Northrend in my opinion, there was no need.