Sylvanas and the Lich King

[DeicideUH]

Well, some random thoughts here: Sylvanas tried to enslave Eyir but failed. She's desperate to secure her immortality. Meanwhile, the new Lich King seems to be planning something.

Do you think Sylvanas will look for deal with the Lich King?

While Sylvanas hated Arthas, that was a personal quest for vengeance. In her short story, she finds out that someone else became a new Lich King and couldn't care less about it. With her future hanging in the balance, would she submit to Bolvar?

We know Legion is setting up plots for future expansions. Among all the Void talk, we also have a few hooks for Lich King and the huge Sylvanas/Genn conflict in Stormheim that looks like won't be solved during Legion. In addition, Alleria's return and Vereesa's words in the Vindicaar indicate that we may deal with Sylvanas again soon.

So, what do you think?

[Arrashi]

Oh yeah, thread that starts with "sylvanas" and talks about dealing with sylvanas.
This is gonna be great.

[DeicideUH]

Oh yeah, thread that starts with "sylvanas" and talks about dealing with sylvanas.
This is gonna be great.

You can improve it by staying on-topic.

I hate Sylvanas (not as a character, I think she's an awesome character, but a horrible person), but I don't want this to become a "Hate Sylvanas" thread. I'm just delving into possible future storylines. The events in Stormheim need to be continued at some point.

[Evangeliste]

To me we still haven't had that Sylvanas and Genn charade finish. What's even weirder is somehow Genn knew what was going on since he said "You took away my future, now I take away yours."

That's not random. How the fudge did he know when he wasn't privy to the bargain Helya had with Sylvanas? Did he know what the lantern was? Did he know who Eyir was or could do? Too many questions, no where near enough answers.

What was that lantern and it's purpose? To me it looked like Eyir was being turned considering Helya was the first Val'kyr made by Odyn after he looked into the Shadowlands and Arthas made his own Val'kyr. Clearly there is some form of life from that aspect of death or Shadowlands-relative which Sylvanas wants in on, who doesn't? She must maintain her soul and Forsaken

I haven't gotten yet to the DK campaign but I would wonder if there are any Val'kyr there? Judging from you as a DK being sent to get four horsemen I would assume otherwise so his ability to raise undeath just yet isn't in the mix so Sylvanas wouldn't really care. If he can later on then perhaps she would be.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I'd be fine with slyv trying to make a deal with the licking I just hope she doesn't try to kill him or become a villain both seem like they would be boring story turns for every one involved.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Sylvanas would never submit herself to any power. If she does anything involving the lich king it would be because she thinks she can get something from Bolvar, but she would never submit to him.

not to mention The overwhelming majority of the Forsaken would still hate the scourge. Anything involving any forsaken "submitting" to the scourge sounds like a joke.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

To me we still haven't had that Sylvanas and Genn charade finish. What's even weirder is somehow Genn knew what was going on since he said "You took away my future, now I take away yours."

That's not random. How the fudge did he know when he wasn't privy to the bargain Helya had with Sylvanas? Did he know what the lantern was? Did he know who Eyir was or could do? Too many questions, no where near enough answers.

What was that lantern and it's purpose? To me it looked like Eyir was being turned considering Helya was the first Val'kyr made by Odyn after he looked into the Shadowlands and Arthas made his own Val'kyr. Clearly there is some form of life from that aspect of death or Shadowlands-relative which Sylvanas wants in on, who doesn't? She must maintain her soul and Forsaken

I haven't gotten yet to the DK campaign but I would wonder if there are any Val'kyr there? Judging from you as a DK being sent to get four horsemen I would assume otherwise so his ability to raise undeath just yet isn't in the mix so Sylvanas wouldn't really care. If he can later on then perhaps she would be.

I really wish they would not focus on the legion so much even though the expan is called legion. In wrath we delt with the trolls blue drakes yogg black dragons then the lick King. I feel like we have lost something going forward I mean we delt with the nightmare and helya but glossed over all the people inbetween and forcused just on the legion.

[StationaryHawk]

To me we still haven't had that Sylvanas and Genn charade finish. What's even weirder is somehow Genn knew what was going on since he said "You took away my future, now I take away yours."

That's not random. How the fudge did he know when he wasn't privy to the bargain Helya had with Sylvanas? Did he know what the lantern was? Did he know who Eyir was or could do? Too many questions, no where near enough answers.

What was that lantern and it's purpose? To me it looked like Eyir was being turned considering Helya was the first Val'kyr made by Odyn after he looked into the Shadowlands and Arthas made his own Val'kyr. Clearly there is some form of life from that aspect of death or Shadowlands-relative which Sylvanas wants in on, who doesn't? She must maintain her soul and Forsaken

I haven't gotten yet to the DK campaign but I would wonder if there are any Val'kyr there? Judging from you as a DK being sent to get four horsemen I would assume otherwise so his ability to raise undeath just yet isn't in the mix so Sylvanas wouldn't really care. If he can later on then perhaps she would be.

Raising a horseman is described as being a more powerful ritual than other undead, or even death knights in general. That is why the player character is sent personally. I also imagine it's not hard to assume what Sylvanas was up to; there's not many reasons she would be mucking about with val'kyr.

I don't see Sylvanas submitting to the Lich King, but striking some sort of deal sounds more in her character. That said, I'm not sure her pride would allow her to bargain with him, and their history with the Scourge might make any talks with Bol'var unpopular among the Forsaken.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Sylvanas would never submit herself to any power. If she does anything involving the lich king it would be because she thinks she can get something from Bolvar, but she would never submit to him.

She more or less sumitted to the horde with a partnership I doubt she ever though she would be are chief. I could see her partnering with the lick King without trying to over throw him.

[Arrashi]

She more or less sumitted to the horde with a partnership I doubt she ever though she would be are chief. I could see her partnering with the lick King without trying to over throw him.

She never "submitted". It was always alliance of convenience, beneficial for both sides.

[stablon]

Although this is all speculation at this point, I don't think Bolvar will stay the person he used to be. I'm sure he's been hearing a lot of whispers during his time as the Lich King and there is a plot waiting to be revealed there. I'm expecting that story to be a part of the next expansion, but not the whole theme.

As for Sylvanas, I can't really tell what she is up to, but there definitely seem to be something off with her.

[Deleted]

Have not seen a single Forsaken on Argus sofar on the ptr.
So i dont think we see Sylvanas or any Horde at all anymore in Legion.

[DeicideUH]

To me we still haven't had that Sylvanas and Genn charade finish. What's even weirder is somehow Genn knew what was going on since he said "You took away my future, now I take away yours."

That's not random. How the fudge did he know when he wasn't privy to the bargain Helya had with Sylvanas? Did he know what the lantern was? Did he know who Eyir was or could do? Too many questions, no where near enough answers.

What was that lantern and it's purpose? To me it looked like Eyir was being turned considering Helya was the first Val'kyr made by Odyn after he looked into the Shadowlands and Arthas made his own Val'kyr. Clearly there is some form of life from that aspect of death or Shadowlands-relative which Sylvanas wants in on, who doesn't? She must maintain her soul and Forsaken

I haven't gotten yet to the DK campaign but I would wonder if there are any Val'kyr there? Judging from you as a DK being sent to get four horsemen I would assume otherwise so his ability to raise undeath just yet isn't in the mix so Sylvanas wouldn't really care. If he can later on then perhaps she would be.

Don't know how Stormheim is portrayed for the Horde, but Alliance version: Genn got information that Sylvanas was heading personally for Stormheim and went there to hunt her down (this info is given in Azsuna, we find a sunken forsaken ship and get a letter telling about Sylvanas going Stormheim, then deliver it to the gilneans in Dalaran). After the initial skirmish, the Gilnean Brigade investigated further and found out that Sylvanas was after something in the region that would bolster their forces. Later on, we witness Sylvanas making a deal with Helya, while the Gilneans tracked the Forsaken activity towards Skold Ashil. We players investigate the place, find about the Temple of Eyir and the purpose of the valkyras, so Genn probably just put 2 and 2 together and deduced Sylvanas was trying to create more val'kyr for herself.

The purpose of the lantern is never stated, but we presume it was to bind/force/control Eyir, who can create more val'kyr.

We also don't know what kind of bargain Sylvanas struck with Helya and if this will have consequences in the future after Helya's death.

[Arrashi]

Have not seen a single Forsaken on Argus sofar on the ptr.
So i dont think we see Sylvanas or any Horde at all anymore in Legion.

That's sylvanas grand plan - as member of the horde she plans on falling into pit of obscurity and becoming immortal that way. Noone can kill her if they never continue her story.

She probably learned from baine.

[DeicideUH]

Have not seen a single Forsaken on Argus sofar on the ptr.
So i dont think we see Sylvanas or any Horde at all anymore in Legion.

This thread is considering plot points for future expansions, not Legion.
I don't think we will see much Forsaken action, if any, on Argus.

[cuafpr]

i wouldn't put it past her.....

[Deleted]

First and foremost: She doesn't want HER immortality safed, as long as she has one of the old Valkyr left, she can't be killed, thats why she is still alive after trying to kill herself by jumping down the Frozen Throne after Arthas defeat, but she want's the future of the Forsaken safed. The Forsaken are dying out. Every Forsaken thats not gone through the ritual Sylvanas and Nathanos went, gets older and decays. (Blizz wrote a little story 'bout Nathanos were this was described - it was readable in the Battle.net-client) But for that ritual, she has to sacrafice the might of one Valkyr - a 1 for 1 trade, one TRUE undead for one Valkyr. Sylvanas has three or so left. Thats why she wanted to enslave Eyir - she is an Valkyr like the one she has domested and as such, Eyir and her Valkyr are able to revive new Forsaken.

So, now to the Deal with Bolvar: Bolvar has nothing left, what would help her. Only his ability to domest Eyir like Arthas did with the old Valkyr.
But for that, I think, he has to leave the Frozen Throne and travel to Eyir. Thats something he wouldn't do. And even if - I don't believe that he - a member of the scourge, and as such as a member of the Legion (remember, Nerzhul and the Legion were just a tool of the Legion, even after both got seperated through Arthas and his conquest etc.) could get into the Halls of Valor, the actuall Home of Eyir.

Thats why I think she'll not deal something out with Bolvar.
Somehow I actually belive she finds another way to safe the Forsaken, her old Valkyr and herself. And because it is Blizzard, and its the last thing someone would think about, I think in 7.3 Sylvanas is going to lay down weapons with Genn after a fight on Argus and somehow they figure out how to safe the Forsaken. MAybe a titanrelic on Argus or so. But thats not the topic.

[Combatbutler]

As long as blizzard does not build up a decent replacement for her that becomes the new face for the forsaken whatever she does hopefully does not end up with her dying. It is bad enough they utterly screwed up with Vol'jin and the darkspear.

OT

I'd like it if a few val'kyr of helheim would join her ranks and she orders research in some sort of soul beacon catching their souls upon death and researching artificial bodies, by studying Mogu technology.

[Deleted]

Have not seen a single Forsaken on Argus sofar on the ptr.
So i dont think we see Sylvanas or any Horde at all anymore in Legion.

Varimathras is a Raidboss on Argus, soooo...there will be Fosaken, trust me

[DeicideUH]

First and foremost: She doesn't want HER immortality safed, as long as she has one of the old Valkyr left, she can't be killed, thats why she is still alive after trying to kill herself by jumping down the Frozen Throne after Arthas defeat, but she want's the future of the Forsaken safed. The Forsaken are dying out. Every Forsaken thats not gone through the ritual Sylvanas and Nathanos went, gets older and decays. (Blizz wrote a little story 'bout Nathanos were this was described - it was readable in the Battle.net-client) But for that ritual, she has to sacrafice the might of one Valkyr - a 1 for 1 trade, one TRUE undead for one Valkyr. Sylvanas has three or so left. Thats why she wanted to enslave Eyir - she is an Valkyr like the one she has domested and as such, Eyir and her Valkyr are able to revive new Forsaken.

That's not true. Read her Cataclysm short story, which explains her motives pretty well. Until Arthas' death, Sylvanas only cared about vengeance and sacrificed her forsaken without second thought. Arthas was killed, and she commited suicide. Upon finding out what tortured existence awaited beyond, she accepted a pact with the val'kyr. One of the val'kyr took her place in the afterlife in order for them to bring her back. Since then, her primary objective is to keep herself "alive". She stops sacrificing forsaken because she now sees her as a shield against threats, so she starts using them with more care.

The val'kyr can't keep bringing her back either. She's too powerful, so the val'kyr need to sacrifice themselves in order to return her. That happens in Silverpine, when she's shot in the head and several (3?) val'kyr need to die in order to bring her back. Since she has a limited number of val'kyr, she can't rely on them bringing her back forever.

The entire quest in Stormheim is to get more val'kyr, so she can keep herself safe.

Sylvanas only cares about the forsaken because they adore her and are willing to sacrifice themselves for her. That's pretty much stated in the canon story.

So, now to the Deal with Bolvar: Bolvar has nothing left, what would help her. Only his ability to domest Eyir like Arthas did with the old Valkyr.
But for that, I think, he has to leave the Frozen Throne and travel to Eyir. Thats something he wouldn't do. And even if - I don't believe that he - a member of the scourge, and as such as a member of the Legion (remember, Nerzhul and the Legion were just a tool of the Legion, even after both got seperated through Arthas and his conquest etc.) could get into the Halls of Valor, the actuall Home of Eyir.

The Lich King does not need val'kyr to create undead to begin with. He only used them to become even more powerful.

Thats why I think she'll not deal something out with Bolvar.

She was willing to deal with Helya. Why not Bolvar?

Specialy if the deal requires only an alliance, not servitude.