Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Steampunkette]

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=8801/cthuns-legacy

"It is ironic that the weakest of us may be the ultimate victor. C'Thun, Yogg-Saron, Y'Shaarj, and well, only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be."

"The shadow of my corpse will choke this land for all eternity."

Cho'gall wanting to resurrect C'thun wouldn't really make sense if he wasn't dead.


C'thun and Yogg are as powerful as Y'shaarj was when he got plucked out, and according to Chronicles, he was considered dead at that point, even though he still was radiating some kind of evil energy (Sha/Whispers)

I'm sorry, nowhere does any of that say "10 to 40 randos with swords and spells can kill an old god in a permanent fashion" so nope, doesn't count.

This is what goalpost moving means on the other side of an argument. This is what it feels like when you demand specific criteria and don't hold yourself to the same standard. It is why I made the previous post so clearly sarcastically.

There's a bunch of lore saying they just keep coming back. That there's no way to permanently kill them. That they can only be contained. And they're based on freaking Lovecraftian deities with the same sort of framing and phrasing for the various hints that they can't die.

C'thun's still there in the desert and we're gonna have to fight him because of the Wound. But even without the wound, he'd eventually return.

Hell, even Y'shaarj's heart talks about being asleep rather than dead.

[Mahmeya]

I think it'll more likely be a summer release. I really don't think they'll make Antorous last a year.

Tbh, if the break is in summer, I am okay with it. Serious raiding ends in June, rest from WoW through summer, get back in September... perfect.

[Vakir]

This Old God conversation, friends, is why I've scarcely liked Old Gods in Warcraft despite their significant popularity: the fact that conversations evolve into whether they can freakin' die is a red flag in terms of the failure of their relationship to what they're inspired by.

We shouldn't even be able to fight these things in the first place. Great Old Ones and Outer Gods shouldn't even be able to be WITNESSED by 10-40 randos without shitting themselves and dying by way of scratching their own skulls until they start ripping at their own dura mater. They should certainly not have a comprehensible language and be cackling like an 80's cartoon villain, YOGG-SARON. >:[

Instead we're gonna invoke some 1920s racist's work as an initially cute pop culture reference but then decide, nope, we're gonna make that shit the blueprint for our entire franchise's future but we're going to keep the part where they're basically the version of the squid from Saturday Morning Watchmen, despite that it was a parody of how Ozy deliberately used an unknowable and incomprehensible evil, yet fans looked at it like a goofy supervillain.

And that is why the fact that there's even a discussion about whether Old Gods can die is a nice big urine stream on the Lovecraftian mythos in the first place. The fact that my player character is even remotely conscious after looking at C'Thun for a few seconds is all wrong.

/whining

Is what "the art team was using as direction when designing the zone aesthetics". Because, you know, anything in the above description even mentions the aesthetics for any zone at all. And the art team totally just uses general expansion summaries as their go to source for zone aesthetics, and not a massive amount of resources and meetings about the zone design.

Yeah, that's what I meant by "it's just vague enough to be possible." I can see that even if it's not part of the usual art team docket, that's just about as much information as someone working on the project would have anyway.

I'd be more than happy if it's false. I just have a really odd feeling in the same way that I had when the stars began to align with WoD, and the really awful realization crept in that, no, this is totally the story and story hook we're gonna get.

I'd love to be wrong.

[Steampunkette]

But that's kind of the thing alot of the factions would be fine with the hord being destroyed just to stop sylvanas and the hord knows that so even they wouldent let sylvanas have the helm. They would give it to bain befor they gave it her if some how they magicly had the free choice of who gets it which I highly highly highly doubt the alliance would just be sat thumb twiddling as sylvanas marches on ice crown.

It's not "A lot of factions" though.

It's the alliance.

The Silver Hand wouldn't want the Horde destroyed, because half its members are Horde.
The Cenarion Circle wouldn't want the Horde destroyed, because half its members are Horde.
Continue on this line for pretty much every faction except for irrelevant ones like the unaffiliated Goblin cartels or the Defias Brotherhood.

[willtron]

C'monn Telabim Banana Republic expansion. Fighting off the Banana Caliphate.

[Deleted]

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=8801/cthuns-legacy

"It is ironic that the weakest of us may be the ultimate victor. C'Thun, Yogg-Saron, Y'Shaarj, and well, only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be."

"The shadow of my corpse will choke this land for all eternity."

Cho'gall wanting to resurrect C'thun wouldn't really make sense if he wasn't dead.


C'thun and Yogg are as dead as Y'shaarj was when he got plucked out, and according to Chronicles, he was considered dead at that point, even though he still was radiating some kind of evil energy (Sha/Whispers)

Yea there supposed to consume each outher to grown in power yshaarj ate the old God the shadow priest dagger was.

The medan books aren't cannon to the game but for the sake of explination resurrect also means to restore, revitalise(something that is ignored, disused or forgotten) - dictionary definition

Yshjaar did sorta die but u suppose you could argue ripping him out of the planet and causing the near death of the planet didn't really kill him as his heart was still beating away.

And the shadow priest dagger was totaly consumed but she's still there talking to the priests and working her schemes.

Yoggsarron got beat up just like cthun yet he turns up in the warrior quests when you go to ulduar.

[Makorus]

I'm sorry, nowhere does any of that say "10 to 40 randos with swords and spells can kill an old god in a permanent fashion" so nope, doesn't count.

This is what goalpost moving means on the other side of an argument. This is what it feels like when you demand specific criteria and don't hold yourself to the same standard. It is why I made the previous post so clearly sarcastically.

There's a bunch of lore saying they just keep coming back. That there's no way to permanently kill them. That they can only be contained. And they're based on freaking Lovecraftian deities with the same sort of framing and phrasing for the various hints that they can't die.

C'thun's still there in the desert and we're gonna have to fight him because of the Wound. But even without the wound, he'd eventually return.

Hell, even Y'shaarj's heart talks about being asleep rather than dead.

"There's a bunch of lore saying they just keep coming back."

Literally where though? You still haven't delievered on any of that, except constantly saying that "WELL HOW CAN 20-40 PEOPLE KILL AN OLD GOD???" as if that matters, at all. The fact that they are based (basically name-wise only) on Lovecraftian stuff is just as irrelevant.

The first quest literally has third person narration that outright states that C'thun is dead. Knaifu says that every Old God but N'zoth is dead.

Y'shaarj has been dead for how many years, and you didn't see him randomly reform. Hell, he didn't even come back after Garrosh tried to resurrect him. C'thun and Yogg are as dead as Y'shaarj was. Sure, their deathrattle still exists (Saronite and idk, Silithid hives?), they can still whisper, but they aren't concious. They can't directly influence anymore. If you'd somehow destroy every single part of their body, that would cease as well, just like it happened with Y'shaarj.

[Deleted]

100 pages to go, if there isn't a leak between now and 2000, I'm going bonkers!

[Hitei]

"There's a bunch of lore saying they just keep coming back."

Literally where though? You still haven't delievered on any of that, except constantly saying that "WELL HOW CAN 20-40 PEOPLE KILL AN OLD GOD???" as if that matters, at all. The fact that they are based (basically name-wise only) on Lovecraftian stuff is just as irrelevant.

The first quest literally has third person narration that outright states that C'thun is dead. Knaifu says that every Old God but N'zoth is dead.

Y'shaarj has been dead for how many years, and you didn't see him randomly reform. Hell, he didn't even come back after Garrosh tried to resurrect him.

Knaifu says N'zoth is the only one remaining, not that all the others are dead.

[Makorus]

Knaifu says N'zoth is the only one remaining, not that all the others are dead.

Well, if they could return, why would she say that? Doesn't really make sense to say that N'zoth is going to be the "ultimate victor" when the other ones are just "sleeping"-

[willtron]

100 pages to go, if there isn't a leak between now and 2000, I'm going bonkers!

I'm positive it has leaked. There are just so many it's hard to find a legit one. I think cluemancers is the real deal, or the closest at least.

[KingSapmi]

Yea there supposed to consume each outher to grown in power yshaarj ate the old God the shadow priest dagger was.

The medan books aren't cannon to the game but for the sake of explination resurrect also means to restore, revitalise(something that is ignored, disused or forgotten) - dictionary definition

Yshjaar did sorta die but u suppose you could argue ripping him out of the planet and causing the near death of the planet didn't really kill him as his heart was still beating away.

And the shadow priest dagger was totaly consumed but she's still there talking to the priests and working her schemes.

Yoggsarron got beat up just like cthun yet he turns up in the warrior quests when you go to ulduar.

Not to mention that even after we defeated Yogg-Saron, his tendril's and blood (the saronite) which was being mined out in Icecrown and all the way down to Howling Fjord's still influenced people. And that was just saronite, his blood. And the still beating heart of Y'shaarj (imho) means they do not die, regardless of what happens to them. They may be physically gone, but they are, as mentioned, outside the circle, so they do not need a physical body to influence, infect and wreck shit around.

[Hitei]

Well, if they could return, why would she say that? Doesn't really make sense to say that N'zoth is going to be the "ultimate victor" when the other ones are just "sleeping"-

It does if the last prison is close to breaking, the circle is almost complete, etc., etc. It's nearly time for the OGs last attempt to take back the planet. With all the others dormant, a free N'zoth would almost certainly just consume whats left of the others. He's the only one left right now who can do the thing.

I'm positive it has leaked. There are just so many it's hard to find a legit one. I think cluemancers is the real deal, or the closest at least.

I'm positive they're all so similar and generic that you might as well just pick one and say it's the right one. Unless we get an expansion totally out of nowhere without KT, pretty much every leak is going to be partially correct.

[Enrif]

Then the world soul would be impaled and one would image the entire planet would probably explode or something.

I'd think it'd be closer to the Westfall/Duskwood area, no? Still not terribly far, though.

...this is if you ignore the "other side of Azeroth" crap, but that's been at least partially debunked by a full rotation from Argus...assuming they don't retcon that.

But honestly, the tectonics from both the Cataclysm AND the world-stab would be more than enough to push KT out, I'd assume.

Not to mention C Dev #1:

if i go by this model of Azeroth



if you put a straight line from silithus, through the core of the globe it will exit somewhere in Lordaeron.

Did someone opened one of those globes in a modelviewer and checked where the blade would exit?

[Deleted]

It's not "A lot of factions" though.

It's the alliance.

The Silver Hand wouldn't want the Horde destroyed, because half its members are Horde.
The Cenarion Circle wouldn't want the Horde destroyed, because half its members are Horde.
Continue on this line for pretty much every faction except for irrelevant ones like the unaffiliated Goblin cartels or the Defias Brotherhood.

The natural factions members are just that neutral just because there the same race dosent mean there part of the hord. The alliance has a blood elf member after all.

The hord atm is a very weak force after the seige of org. One alliance gun ship nearly wiped out the entire forsaken fleet. Where as the alliance has only grown stronger recently now we have a spaceship and new lightforged stuff thanks to our space goat allies.

Sylvanas getting that helm is as likely as me winning the lottery

[Makorus]

if i go by this model of Azeroth



if you put a straight line from silithus, through the core of the globe it will exit somewhere in Lordaeron.

Did someone opened one of those globes in a modelviewer and checked where the blade would exit?

Dunno why you still speculate on that, if the blade actually goes straight through the planet, then the world soul is fucked anyway and the Void Lords wouldnt really pester us.

[Vakir]

Those Ulduar globes are...

...bad?

The word I was looking for was "bad," yeah. And outdated.

[Hitei]

Dunno why you still speculate on that, if the blade actually goes straight through the planet, then the world soul is fucked anyway. Doubt they would build up the whole world soul subplot would be gone and the Void Lords wouldnt really pester us.

This. For like the third time. Also globes are dumb and they've said not to take them as correct.

[Deleted]

Meanwhile I'm just sitting here.. waiting till Friday like

[Ranger General Vader]

The people who think we fully killed C'thun and Yogg are the type of people who take everything at face value and don't realize that their evidence is based off of the text in a vanilla quest, the very least footnote in a blizzard's retcon of lore. Remember how the eredar were the ultimate baddie villains that corrupted sargeras until TBC