Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Yarathir]

Oh no, the race that is known to have Dinomancers transform into Dinosaurs

/gasp

The first few seconds reaffirmed why I never watched any of her videos, and why I stand by that decision.

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Because it promotes racist attitudes.

No it doesn't. Don't bait people for SocJus brownie points. Go do that in General Off-Topic with all the others.

[Lahis]

Those tusks though'.

Must have assured dominance with them to rise to be the king.

[etheldald]

He didn't. I don't think Vol'jin ever got to know about that affair to begin with (unless it was showed in the War Crimes novel during the trial but I don't think so, just the other little affair regarding Jaina helping Baine in his Thunder Bluff retaking attempt).

well, voljin at least show to jaina that he did not hate her, he send her a letter saying that he understand her. so, he does not hate humans.. i think.

"It took some time for me to learn what happened in Dalaran. You used to be
a woman of peace; you be that no more. Garrosh scorches earth, and the
dead ain't the only victims. You got no blame or hate from me, no matter
what you feel toward Garrosh—or the Horde.
We all got our ghosts."

[Nathanyel]

Or you know, we could stop associated the color black with that, since by extension, that will get associated with African American people. Yes, I know we can "logic" our way out of this, but the point remains that we should as a society do all that we can to stop promoting these feelings with the color black, since people will do that with African Americans (Which is why stigma against them exists in the first place).

Fear of the dark didn't start as a racist thing. Unless you're a nocturnal hunter, every animal is afraid at night and hides.
Racism against "black" people didn't even start because of their specific skin color, but because the "civilized" Europeans saw them as "savage".
These concepts were then combined, but that is what we have to overcome as a species, the association that "dark, 'black' skin = bad/evil/lesser person", not the instinct that the dark is dangerous.

[Ticj]

"NPC villain" development fails because players want a "big bad" for an expansion, remember the shithouse when they didn't announce the end boss of MoP immediately?

Yes, WoW had some issues establishing new villains after the Fall of the Lich King, even Deathwing wasn't that known by long-time players.
Some of the 7.0 Class Hall Campaigns did an adequate job of establishing minor bosses that present a threat from start to finish, sometimes returned demons (Paladin and Priest converge on taking down Balnazzar, Hunters take on Hakkar) or others, such as the Shaman preventing a new, OG-aligned Firelord from rising, instead assisting another one that's willing to join the other Elemental Lords in defending Azeroth from the Legion.
These mini-stories should happen more often, and not just in levelling zone content.

But, taking your argument, how would you, the average [Faction #1] player learn more about the main characters in [Faction #2], enough to "care" about them? By reading out-of-game material, which rarely a player does.
Do you want to kill them eventually, or are you content with slaughtering waves of random [Faction #2] soldiers they send at you? What happens after you kill them? What if the other factions gets to kill characters that you played along with and learned to like? Repeatedly, instead of for dramatic effect?
How would these other-faction opponents not be "pulled out of thin air", unless you mean you want to go after WC3 characters slash current leaders?
How would these opponents be more compelling than a Scourge Lich, Legion Commander or Faceless General? Or any other completely new threat, assuming we don't annihilate it within one questing zone, instead letting them develop, because holy shit, if you only ask for factionwarfactionwarfactionwar, of course you don't get development on third-party adversaries, and then you cry that only the faction war is interesting because it's the only thing you've ever known, bla bla bla.

Currently, the major characters on both factions were at least somewhat shown in Legion in some way. If someone were to play alliance, they see the characters on the horde through their somewhat limited interactions with them throughout the broken isles. As an alliance player, we see Sylvannas and Nathanos in Stormheim. We meet the Nightborne in Suramar, and meet Lady Liadrin along the way. Through these interactions we have a vague knowledge of who these characters are and what their personalities are.

Yes, they are like I said, "pulled out of thin air" like everything else in the game, but they are characters that have interesting personalities and are not purely good or evil. By having a faction war, these characters are finally put into the spotlight, and allowing them much more needed development which will be very much appreciated later on in the next few expansions.

But no, that's "boring" unlike the one-dimensional 100% evil villains that will fail every expansion, right?

Anyways, this isn't 100% an expansion about the faction war. The old gods are present and in the background, pulling strings from the sidelines. Which is completely enough for now.

[Maljinwo]

well, voljin at least show to jaina that he did not hate her, he send her a letter saying that he understand her. so, he does not hate humans.. i think.

"It took some time for me to learn what happened in Dalaran. You used to be
a woman of peace; you be that no more. Garrosh scorches earth, and the
dead ain't the only victims. You got no blame or hate from me, no matter
what you feel toward Garrosh—or the Horde.
We all got our ghosts."

Vol'jin may have disliked humans as a whole, but i'm sure he valued individuals no matter the race. Tyrathan and Jaina being examples

[Nathanyel]

Someone watchs too much game of thrones.

That's actually a common strategy to find leakers/spies in intelligence services.

[Ramz]

Vol'jin may have disliked humans as a whole, but i'm sure he valued individuals no matter the race. Tyrathan and Jaina being examples

Such a pity that he still rescued that human pet :/
I wouldn't use power of Loa to bring bad some forced human character into nonhuman related story :/

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Such a pity that he still rescued that human pet :/
I wouldn't use power of Loa to bring bad some forced human character into nonhuman related story :/

....Stop with the "human pet" Vol'jin was doing something noble(GOD FORBID he helps a race on the other faction sometimes). Also if you haven't noticed outside of Vol'Jin's memorial he's nowhere to be seen.

[Deleted]

....Stop with the "human pet" Vol'jin was doing something noble(GOD FORBID he helps a race on the other faction sometimes). Also if you haven't noticed outside of Vol'Jin's memorial he's nowhere to be seen.

Nah, they prefer the Horde act like antagonistic assholes to everyone affiliated with the Alliance. But take offence when the Horde is painted as a villain.

[FlemmMinis]

....Stop with the "human pet" Vol'jin was doing something noble(GOD FORBID he helps a race on the other faction sometimes). Also if you haven't noticed outside of Vol'Jin's memorial he's nowhere to be seen.

Tyrathan is part of the hunter order.
He even says something like "I'm here to fulfill a promise to an old friend."

[Maljinwo]

....Stop with the "human pet" Vol'jin was doing something noble(GOD FORBID he helps a race on the other faction sometimes). Also if you haven't noticed outside of Vol'Jin's memorial he's nowhere to be seen.

He's on the Hunter Class Hall.
If you talk to him, he says he's thinking of a promise he has to keep.

I Wonder if he managed to find Felguard #231245456

[Ramz]

....Stop with the "human pet" Vol'jin was doing something noble(GOD FORBID he helps a race on the other faction sometimes). Also if you haven't noticed outside of Vol'Jin's memorial he's nowhere to be seen.

It's not that I have something against VJ doing something noble. I just hate Tyrathan as a concept.

[Zulkhan]

well, voljin at least show to jaina that he did not hate her, he send her a letter saying that he understand her. so, he does not hate humans.. i think.

"It took some time for me to learn what happened in Dalaran. You used to be
a woman of peace; you be that no more. Garrosh scorches earth, and the
dead ain't the only victims. You got no blame or hate from me, no matter
what you feel toward Garrosh—or the Horde.
We all got our ghosts."

As I said already, Shadows of the Horde toned the hate down and definitely made Vol'jin capable to at least respect individuals despite not liking or trusting the race as a whole. And despite all the grieviances with Theramore, no doubt Vol'jin was able to acknowledge what Jaina used to be and how she genuinely struggled for peace once (while showing understanding as for why that's not the case anymore).

That being said, I doubt Vol'jin would be that understanding now, considered how Jaina's stance has worsened a lot since then. He would hardly think twice about cutting her down if she would ever become a palpable threat to the Horde.

[Khirok]

Vol'Jin and Tyrathan were the truest of bros.

[Deleted]

Such a pity that he still rescued that human pet :/
I wouldn't use power of Loa to bring bad some forced human character into nonhuman related story :/

"Human pet" really? Tyrathan wasn't misplaced and was just as complex a character as Vol'jin was. Their characters had a symbiotic relationship through the entire book and not only did they help each other find balance as they proved to be both honorable and noble and showing that a good relationship can transcend faction or race. They are probably one of my favorite friendships in lore.

[Zulkhan]

It's not that I have something against VJ doing something noble. I just hate Tyrathan as a concept.

To be fair, is not like lore characters act based on how "forced into the story" the other characters they interact with are.

[Shampro]

"Human pet" really? Tyrathan wasn't misplaced and was just as complex a character as Vol'jin was. Their characters had a symbiotic relationship through the entire book and not only did they help each other find balance as they proved to be both honorable and noble and showing that a good relationship can transcend faction or race. They are probably one of my favorite friendships in lore.

Troll purist are borderline worst then Elf purist lately. Some of you here are certaintly pushing it.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Vol'Jin and Tyrathan were the truest of bros.

[IMG]https://78.media.tumblr.com/bba7a25b4b24259e1a2199b54ab6e496/tumblr_nvy2hyBMki1uc3ogro2_500.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]https://orig00.deviantart.net/43e2/f/2016/250/0/1/6546465444_by_zafnova-dagumgj.jpg[IMG]

uhhhhhhhhhhh

[Ramz]

"Human pet" really? Tyrathan wasn't misplaced and was just as complex a character as Vol'jin was. Their characters had a symbiotic relationship through the entire book and not only did they help each other find balance as they proved to be both honorable and noble and showing that a good relationship can transcend faction or race. They are probably one of my favorite friendships in lore.

As I said, I hate him as a concept. Let me just copy a text that speaks the best about why I think this guy is a problem:

Tyrathan I think speaks to the larger problem. He is more established now, we like his little cameos (mostly because we like Vol'jin), and he seems like a nice guy. His creation though, that is the problem:

The character of Tyrathan Khort was created by Michael Stackpole, author of Vol'jin: Shadows of the Horde, as he claimed that the concept of the book was too Horde-centric.[3]
The above is the problem. It was a book about Vol'jin. Vol'jin. Future Warchief of the Horde, established Horde character since WC3 with tons of screen time in MoP, a very interesting development in Cata, and over all cool guy, being healed up and trained with the Shado-Pan. Again, no reason for a human to be thrown in there, let alone an Alliance member at all. If it was really that much of an issue, throw in a Alliance sided pandaren, a dreanei, a night elf, all of them had almost no love at MoP.

Instead, we now have a human who was a last survivor, found by Chen, healed up, knows fluent Zandalari, was able to fend off an entire Zandalari attack while just being a nobody really, mortally wounded, was brought back by Vol'jin and Bwonsamdi, made a pact with him, snuck into his funeral, and now kinda just exists.

This is the issue.

Ofc everyone is free to disagree. But That was my issue with him.