Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Fahrad Wagner]

Yes, but it's a stump the height of Hyjal (or maybe even taller).

It's taller than most mountains in Kalimdor, so I think it should be visible from pretty much anywhere.

Obviously I'd love it more if they remade Teldrassil the way it's supposed to look, but unless it plays a major role in the expansion, that's very unlikely.

Using a skybox to create the illusion that it's visible from anywhere without rendering the landscape would be nice. It could even be applied to the skybox in Azuremyst Isles, without having to move them to Kalimdor (which they should do at some point anyway...).

Other large landmarks that could get this treatment would be Skywall, Blackrock mountain, Icecrown Citadel or, as you point out, Nordrassil (a 2D image will always be prettier than an untextured, low-quality render of the actual model).

That's a brilliant idea! It would make the world feel more realistic. As for Teldrassil, I had hopes they'd do it "the proper way" with Cataclysm, but since it never happened I guess they'll stick with the lazy way next "revamp".

[Soulwind]

That's a brilliant idea! It would make the world feel more realistic. As for Teldrassil, I had hopes they'd do it "the proper way" with Cataclysm, but since it never happened I guess they'll stick with the lazy way next "revamp".

I don't know if realistic is the right word, it'd make the world look a bit smaller and more theme park-like, but that's something they've always embraced.

And it wouldn't really be a new concept, the old-old world used sprites and small models to create a similar illusion. You could see the Stormwind cathedral from the Valley of Heroes, but once you went into the trade district, it was no longer there. It was actually a small 3D low-quality model that appeared from a distance used to create an iconic skyline.

With flying mounts, most of those tricks won't work. But a "smart" skybox technology that tracks your position and places objects in the right place, so that once you get close to them they fade into the actual model, should be feasible. And possibly something Blizzard is currently testing, considering the skyboxes in Argus are like nothing we've seen before.

[In Ogres We Trust]

A hidden small-sized ogre Empire on Azeroth reproducing what was done in Goria would be nice.

The Ogre capital should be above Dire Maul with entrances and exits into Feralas, Mulgore, Desolace, 1K Needles, and the Barrens. In fact, they have the perfect location for it, i.e. the unused lake above Dire Maul.

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Something minor that's been bothering me: Will a sea expansion be "South Seas" or "High Seas"? Or maybe even "The Great Sea"?

A "sea expansion" is nothing more than fan-fiction.

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I think island zones handled like Argus with a boat system functioning similar to the Vindicaar is definitely possible.

I agree that there won't be zones that don't feel connected in some way though.

Given their previous stance on the feedback from Cataclysm, that's highly unlikely.

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To be fair, every zone older than MoP could use a shiny new skybox. If they use them to create a better illusion of the other continents and islands being there, even better.

I'd love it if Teldrassil could be seen from anywhere in Kalimdor, and somehow the skybox transitioned into the landscape as you got close to it.

To be fair, it's one of the fantasy tropes that's difficult to implement into a game, so for that reason alone, I would have preferred the Night Elf capital on Mt. Hyjal.

[DelusionalBear]

art by Dante Liu (https://www.artstation.com/dante09)

this is actually LoL, but would be cool to see something like that for void related stuff.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Yes, I agree that any playable ogres would come from Azeroth (or Outland), not Draenor.

The key to introduce playable ogres is already in the lore. The Stonemaul clan was conquered by Rexxar and joined the Horde during the early days of Durotar and Orgrimmar. They've been in game as NPCs. Later, in Cataclysm, the Dunemaul ogres from Tanaris were forced into Horde service by the goblins.

What they could do is: now that Theramore is gone and Onyxia is dead, the Stonemaul start conquering Dustwallow. There are mountains south of Onyxia's lair and north of Thousand Needles that could easily be adjusted to have an entire ogre city, using Draenor architecture. Put other ogre clans seeking that city and joining the Stonemaul, put Rexxar as racial leader, and you have playable ogres.

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Of course he means that ogres came from Draenor originally, but he's talking about the ones that are in the main universe and have been living in Azeroth for a generation, not the ones in AU!Draenor.

The Ogre capital would be better served if it was north of Dire Maul, i.e. in the lake region of the mountains in-game. Although, to be fair, Dustwallow Marsh would be just as good.

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I've thought this for a long time myself. As much as I liked even the little expansion we did get to ogre lore in Warlords of Draenor and I think it would have been a thematically appropriate time to get playable ogres, I'm kind of glad we didn't. Something I still think was awkward about Garrosh is that he was completely isolated from the politics that define Azeroth, and yet acted like he had a long history with the Alliance once he came to Azeroth. I want playable ogres to be from our timeline and know our history.

That's also why, despite considering options like our timeline's "ogre continent" surviving in a broken state somewhere else in the Nether, like Outland, it hasn't been my favorite option because it leaves us with a similar problem: those ogres would have no idea who we are and no reason to care.

I've actually been working on a New Goria idea myself (involving the Stonemaul) for my website, but it's on hold because I've got a lot of other things going on right now, and if we do get ogres announced next month, it will feel like a waste of effort I already don't have time for. But I'm really warming up to the idea of just expanding the ogres we have on Azeroth. It seems so obvious in hindsight, but I've always tried to build on existing things to a fault.

Something this thread today has made me realize, is that we still don't really know anything about how the ogres scattered across Azeroth. It's never been an important question, but it's certainly something that you can expand on. There was once a question as to how ogre clans even got to Kalimdor, but reinforcing the whole seafaring thing fixes that problem.

One thing I find interesting is that, Warlords of Draenor initially tried to explain (and justify leaving the old model on old ogres) that the ogres we know have been diminished in some way, and in Warlords we were going to see more sophisticated ogres at their height. The thing is, most of the ogres don't really live up to that (and the new model has been used a few times in Legion on ogres that are almost certainly not from the alternate Draenor). In general, I think this was the world designers going off the jokes they were familiar with, while the story team were writing the more erudite ogres like in Lords of War or Mar'gok. However, in the end, I think it works out in the long run for the ogres. Because I think it means you can play off the ogres we know as just the stupider ones, while still introducing smarter ogres to lead them that have been living on Azeroth this whole time, without having to say all the ones in our timeline are irrevocably diminished and incapable of the more interesting levels of culture.

Going off what I said about the original intent of the ogre empire in Warlords, I agree that it could be kinda interesting if they do something like that on Azeroth. Establish that, after Highmaul fell to Cho'gall in our timeline, a handful of the "best" (hopefully including our Tormmok ;P) escaped to Azeroth, built ships, and ended up on an island somewhere. Perhaps a good chunk of the clans we're familiar with are actually colonies in the way the outposts on Draenor were originally intended, all originally coming from this New Gorian Empire based off of an island we haven't been to (this could even explain the Stonemaul being on both continents before World of Warcraft renamed the Eastern Kingdoms branch to the Crushridge). Maybe it's Ogrezonia. It could be kinda funny to find out Ogrezonia isn't actually an island of nothing but ogre women, but an ogre capital city where most the women have gone to, so to people not used to seeing ogre women, they assume the high concentration of ogre women means it's nothing but women living there.

When it comes to expecting them, though, it doesn't really mean much on its own, but I also found the World of Warcraft: Traveler interesting (although certainly far more on the circumstantial end). While ogres mostly feature as joke fodder in the story, we get the first official depiction of a female ogre in the artwork (even if the design isn't something surprising or anything), and several ogres are described with features that haven't appeared in game ever or artwork for quite a few years.

An interesting theme would be to use them as a segue for continents on the far-side of Azeroth, e.g. the Ogres left the original Horde, explored the seas of Azeroth, discovered additional continents (a Columbus-type of deal with the New World), and recreated their empire.

[Blayze]

"Hey, what happened to the ogre continent in our timeline?"

*a massive shadow appears. People look up to see land filling the sky and getting steadily closer*

"Motherfuckers."

[In Ogres We Trust]

lmao. Its been like 4 fucking years. Why are we still talking about Ogres?

Because Ogres are bada**!

[rda]

Because Ogres are bada**!

First association with 'ogres' is 'dumb'. Not sure what's so badass about them. To each his own.

[Paula Deen]

"Hey, what happened to the ogre continent in our timeline?"

It was abandoned before Daniel even talked to Nerzhul

[Fahrad Wagner]

The Ogre capital would be better served if it was north of Dire Maul, i.e. in the lake region of the mountains in-game. Although, to be fair, Dustwallow Marsh would be just as good.

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An interesting theme would be to use them as a segue for continents on the far-side of Azeroth, e.g. the Ogres left the original Horde, explored the seas of Azeroth, discovered additional continents (a Columbus-type of deal with the New World), and recreated their empire.

I've thought about making northern Feralas an ogre-empire zone before, and I agree with you it would be amazing!

[Feali]

Blizzcon has 'Voices of Blizzard - The Powerful Women of Warcraft' on the Legendary Stage late Friday Evening.


I think its time I pull my WoD Boost out in preparation.

You know some people just got really triggered by that title because it says "powerful women".

[DeicideUH]

The Ogre capital would be better served if it was north of Dire Maul, i.e. in the lake region of the mountains in-game. Although, to be fair, Dustwallow Marsh would be just as good.

To each its own. I like Dustwallow because the Stonemaul were always there, all major threats in the area have been vanquished and the mountains have lots of space. Plus an ogre city there would have a port, reinforcing their seafaring skills. And an ogre city with a port with ogre juggernaults is way cooler than one that is land-locked, IMO.

[Raetary]

Didn't we go to a Titan place near the Maelstrom to find a mount or something? For the priests iirc?

Pretty much.

The priest class mount quests lead you to a sunken titan vault near the maelstrom.

[In Ogres We Trust]

To each its own. I like Dustwallow because the Stonemaul were always there, all major threats in the area have been vanquished and the mountains have lots of space. Plus an ogre city there would have a port, reinforcing their seafaring skills. And an ogre city with a port with ogre juggernaults is way cooler than one that is land-locked, IMO.

That's a good point; to each their own!

My only critique of the idea centers around the restoration of Theramore (which I would like to see happen).

[Beloren]

The Ogre capital should be above Dire Maul with entrances and exits into Feralas, Mulgore, Desolace, 1K Needles, and the Barrens. In fact, they have the perfect location for it, i.e. the unused lake above Dire Maul.

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A "sea expansion" is nothing more than fan-fiction.

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Given their previous stance on the feedback from Cataclysm, that's highly unlikely.

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To be fair, it's one of the fantasy tropes that's difficult to implement into a game, so for that reason alone, I would have preferred the Night Elf capital on Mt. Hyjal.

The night elf capital should have been mount hyjal, but then it would be weird cos in the original night elf lore, the night elves haven't returned to or rebuilt their civilization in 10k years, it was meant to portray them as hardcore, even giving up living normal lifesto proect the world.

After WC3 the night elves have changed, they are no longer the long vigil nature based, beyond civilization group, their watch is over, the legion returned, immortality gone they need to make a life again, this is why the arcane comes back too, the reasons for not using it for spells are mute, the legion returned, and even more so now that they have worked a cure for addiction with the nightborne and the legion is defeated in 7.3 with their arcane empire returning with suramar.

Dire Maul is a Highborne capital, that Estulan has managed to clear with our help and the Shen'dralar have no intention on letting it go to ogres of which we are their king, and we are in service of the highborne.. the shen'dralar have recruited new talented night elves into their order.. all the night elf mages become highborne, and with Suramar and the nightborne back they will get a lot of help rebuilding and restoring Eldre'thalas, so we might get two Kaldorei empire cities in operation, with Darnasus being the druidic home while the priesthood moves back to Suramar and the Cathedral of Eternal Night.

The ogres are better off in the Eastern Kingdom anyway -- not enough horde races there, furthermore their ideal place is AU Draenor, not to mention there are many islands on Azeroth

[Soulwind]

"Hey, what happened to the ogre continent in our timeline?"

*a massive shadow appears. People look up to see land filling the sky and getting steadily closer*

"Motherfuckers."

Jokes aside, a floating continent would be cool. Specially if, unlike Outland, they take advantage of that and place the different zones in different levels. So that you can, and even must, fly under them to reach certain places.

I don't think there's anything in the lore that would support such an expansion right now, other than random pieces of land (such as MU Goria) in the Twisting Nether or what may be left of K'aresh.

Heh, it would be very Blizzard of them to grab the most common ideas of a "South Seas expansion" and somehow say that Azshara/N'zoth/Jaina/a Void Lord has magically altered a bunch of islands and they're now floating in the sky around the Maelstrom. Just to fuck with lore experts.

[Paula Deen]

Jokes aside, a floating continent would be cool. Specially if, unlike Outland, they take advantage of that and place the different zones in different levels. So that you can, and even must, fly under them to reach certain places.

I don't think there's anything in the lore that would support such an expansion right now, other than random pieces of land (such as MU Goria) in the Twisting Nether or what may be left of K'aresh.

Heh, it would be very Blizzard of them to grab the most common ideas of a "South Seas expansion" and somehow say that Azshara/N'zoth/Jaina/a Void Lord has magically altered a bunch of islands and they're now floating in the sky around the Maelstrom. Just to fuck with lore experts.

Honestly I would gib hella cash for an Outland Revamp that did this.

[Lahis]

priesthood moves back to Suramar and the Cathedral of Eternal Night.

I don't think they could ever use Tomb of Sargeras as Temple of Elune anymore. The place is too corrupted.

[Soulwind]

Honestly I would gib hella cash for an Outland Revamp that did this.

Yeah, but according to the Internet that'd be "lazy" of them.

Just like Draenor was "just a reskin of Outland". It must have a new name!

[plz delete account]

Jokes aside, a floating continent would be cool. Specially if, unlike Outland, they take advantage of that and place the different zones in different levels. So that you can, and even must, fly under them to reach certain places.

I don't think there's anything in the lore that would support such an expansion right now, other than random pieces of land (such as MU Goria) in the Twisting Nether or what may be left of K'aresh.

Heh, it would be very Blizzard of them to grab the most common ideas of a "South Seas expansion" and somehow say that Azshara/N'zoth/Jaina/a Void Lord has magically altered a bunch of islands and they're now floating in the sky around the Maelstrom. Just to fuck with lore experts.

As a lore expert, I say this would be fucking awesome.
Sure, it might be hard to explain to people wanting to learn lore for the first time, but it'd still be awesome on a scale WoW has not achieved... Ever.