Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Drekmar]

I'm so boring, no news at all and blizzcon still 3 weeks away.

Wording bruh.

[zlygork]

I'm so boring, no news at all and blizzcon still 3 weeks away.

I don't think any leak or announcement will make you into a less boring person unless you go to some sort of crazy nerdy party where you can impress people by foreseeing warcraft's future

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Things got to that level of extreme around Burning Crusade era, it's just concentrated in Argus. Fortunately for those who dislike that sort of thing, we likely will not have a major Legion expansion again... Maybe.

People just want it to tone down just a tad. JUST a tad and yes I expect a Legion expansion but not for a VERY LONG time and probably won't be the same. I'm all for sticking to Swords and Sorcery. I get where Warcraft started but they don't have to go full sci-fi on everything.

[Ghargatuloth]

People just want it to tone down just a tad. JUST a tad and yes I expect a Legion expansion but not for a VERY LONG time and probably won't be the same. I'm all for sticking to Swords and Sorcery. I get where Warcraft started but they don't have to go full sci-fi on everything.

I'm all for swords and sorcery type things... The problem I have is "sticking" to it. I'd personally prefer we have it for a few expansions and sort of switch it up every now and again depending on where the setting takes us.

An ethereal and "Great Beyond" type expansion for instance would be a good place to pop more sci-fi settings up. Mind you I would not want that type of thing again for at least a FEW expansions.

[Soulwind]

The funny thing about that is that one of the only expansions I consider "Filler" happens to be one of the more popular expansions. Everyone seemed to like Mists of Pandaria... Ya know, unless they just disliked the setting or "lolpandas".

The only expansion I could maybe call filler is WoD. And not because of its quality or premise, but simply because we got very little out of it.

Garrosh and Kairoz opened the way to Draenor, they both died, we spent there two years and the only thing that came out was a "resurrected" Gul'dan. We could have gotten the same result out of a questchain or even a cutscene: They think they're summoning this fabled Iron Horde through the Dark Portal, but Gul'dan comes out and kills them both. There, WoD skipped.

No other expansion can be replaced that easily.

We learned a lot about the origins of Azeroth in Pandaria, and now with Chronicles, they've made Pandaria the center of a lot of what happened before the War of the Ancients. And sure Wrathion and Anduin haven't done a lot since then, but both got a lot of development during MoP, as did Varian, Vol'jin and the Zandalari.

Hell, Lei Shen has become one of the most popular villains, and he was just there for a mid-expansion tier.

They did a lot of things right with MoP, and I think a lot of it comes from having more creative freedom because of how different and fresh the theme was. Draenor could have also been an empty canvas, and they did create some interesting stuff (the Breakers vs Primals lore, the Arakkoa culture, the origins of Ner'zhul...), but they focused on the least interesting elements: the Warlords and the Burning Legion.

[TheFirstOnes]

1. Semantics. If anything, dimensions are more of a sci-fi concept than space is. Point being, nobody expected to go from killing dragons to killing aliens.

2. Then I propose the next playable race to be Faceless. Right, that wouldn't make sense with the current lore. But it would be unexpected!

3. Yeah, sure, all those quests in Outland that get you ready to fight Illidan and his lieutenants are meaningless, the real meat of the expansion is the very last patch where an elf we already killed happens to be alive and summons the real villain in a random corner of Azeroth. There was little to no buildup to Sunwell before 2.4, Illidan was front and center.

1. Well, to be fair now, Demons have always been "Aliens". They're not of this World, yes?

2. Would expect Ethereals to happen. They're more like the Draenei, than anything. However, they're more or less Void wielders. It makes sense. We have Locus Walker.

3. Illidan was NEVER Front and Center. Even he was planning to defeat Kil'jaeden at the Black Temple. We were mis-understood when we fought him, and I don't think Blizzard wanted TBC to end due to a single, lore-fucked patch.

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MoP, to me, was a filler Expansion. I think it was only created to deal with the Alliance/Horde bullshit. But, with Panda's. The only interesting thing with MoP, was the Legendary Questline. It talks about the Titans, The Legion, and so forth.

All of this would lead into Facebook 2.0, which would lead into Legion.

[Soulwind]

1. Well, to be fair now, Demons have always been "Aliens". They're not of this World, yes?

2. Would expect Ethereals to happen. They're more like the Draenei, than anything. However, they're more or less Void wielders. It makes sense. We have Locus Walker.

3. Illidan was NEVER Front and Center. Even he was planning to defeat Kil'jaeden at the Black Temple. We were mis-understood when we fought him, and I don't think Blizzard wanted TBC to end due to a single, lore-fucked patch.

1. The argument is about theme, not concept. Demons and orcs are aliens, but they don't look like aliens, and their powers feel like they fit in a fantasy setting, unlike many of the elements of TBC and Legion. Saying the dimensional ships are powered by arcane or fel magic doesn't make them look any less like spaceships.

2. That's my point. You'd expect ethereals, they make sense. The current lore points towards them having factions that could logically join us. Unlike the eredar before TBC.

3. Hellfire Pensinsula, orcs that follow Illidan. Zangarmarsh, naga that follow Illidan. Tempest Keep, elves that follow Illidan. Black Temple, demons and broken that follow Illidan. Every major enemy before 2.4 is connected to Illidan and getting us a step closer to killing him. I agree there wasn't a lot of justification behind us being against him, but that was par for the course in pre-WotLK ingame lore.

[TheFirstOnes]

1. The argument is about theme, not concept. Demons and orcs are aliens, but they don't look like aliens, and their powers feel like they fit in a fantasy setting, unlike many of the elements of TBC and Legion. Saying the dimensional ships are powered by arcane or fel magic doesn't make them look any less like spaceships.

2. That's my point. You'd expect ethereals, they make sense. The current lore points towards them having factions that could logically join us. Unlike the eredar before TBC.

3. Hellfire Pensinsula, orcs that follow Illidan. Zangarmarsh, naga that follow Illidan. Tempest Keep, elves that follow Illidan. Black Temple, demons and broken that follow Illidan. Every major enemy before 2.4 is connected to Illidan and getting us a step closer to killing him. I agree there wasn't a lot of justification behind us being against him, but that was par for the course in pre-WotLK ingame lore.

I agree with most of your points, except for Tempest Keep. Apparently, even before BT, Kael'thas betrayed Illidan by invading Shattrath. It was only blamed on Illidan, however.

[Drekmar]

Holy fuck the spam in General is beyond anything... They need to find a way to stop it.

[Ghargatuloth]

I agree with most of your points, except for Tempest Keep. Apparently, even before BT, Kael'thas betrayed Illidan by invading Shattrath. It was only blamed on Illidan, however.

Pretty much this.

Kael had allied himself with the Legion pretty much before we ever set foot on Outland. The naga on the other hand... Blizzard has never explained that one, some think the naga were helping Kael, some seem to think they were gathering water for a Well of Eternity in Outland, while it may just be that water is a valued resource on Outland.

Either way, the Kael story actually led into the Kil'jaeden thing. He even trash talked Illidan as a half elf mongrel, as I recall.

Edit - Oh, almost forgot about the orc thing, that was essentially Illidan's first move to take Outland from the Legion's control, given that Mannoroth had control over the orcs as well as the previous demon occupation. So taking control of the orcs was kind of necessary.

[Deleted]

Holy fuck the spam in General is beyond anything... They need to find a way to stop it.

It can't stop until every country got their love problem solved.

[Lahis]

3. Hellfire Pensinsula, orcs that follow Illidan. Zangarmarsh, naga that follow Illidan. Tempest Keep, elves that follow Illidan. Black Temple, demons and broken that follow Illidan. Every major enemy before 2.4 is connected to Illidan and getting us a step closer to killing him. I agree there wasn't a lot of justification behind us being against him, but that was par for the course in pre-WotLK ingame lore.

Tempest Keep Belves followed Kael'Thas. Only those who joined the Illidari at Black Temple were Illidan's followers.

[Nyel]

What does "filler expansion" mean though? The only "filler expansion" we had was WoD because the alternate universe / time line bs doesn't fit into the Warcraft lore. MoP was anything but filler, it set up the events of (WoD) Legion in the end and dealt with one of the Old Gods.

The upcoming expansion won't be filler, it's just the start of a new duology / trilogy (MoP->WoD->Legion should be treated as a trilogy) where it most likely will be Azeroth/Old Gods->"filler"->Space/Void.

[Zazajin]

Holy fuck the spam in General is beyond anything... They need to find a way to stop it.

This could just be me tinfoil hatting something chronic and I'll admit that, but a part of me wonders if it's something related to Blizz trying to bury the leaks behind a ton of spam. Iirc it didn't start up until Gamescom and I don't think I've ever seen it this bad.

[DeicideUH]

3. Hellfire Pensinsula, orcs that follow Illidan. Zangarmarsh, naga that follow Illidan. Tempest Keep, elves that follow Illidan. Black Temple, demons and broken that follow Illidan. Every major enemy before 2.4 is connected to Illidan and getting us a step closer to killing him. I agree there wasn't a lot of justification behind us being against him, but that was par for the course in pre-WotLK ingame lore.

I agree with most of your points, except for Tempest Keep. Apparently, even before BT, Kael'thas betrayed Illidan by invading Shattrath. It was only blamed on Illidan, however.

Tempest Keep Belves followed Kael'Thas. Only those who joined the Illidari at Black Temple were Illidan's followers.

This is a discussion in which everyone is right. Yes, Kael'thas elves betrayed Illidan and joined the Burning Legion. But Kael'thas was following Illidan before that, and we only discover his betrayal during que Netherstorm questline. So, it seemed like Kael was doing Illidan's bidding, until we find out that he sided with the Legion. That does not make the TBC storyline less about Illidan. Instead, it's Illidan's plot branching into the Burning Legion plot. Illidan's storyline ends in the Black Temple. The Burning Legion storyline ends in Sunwell Plateau.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Pretty much this.

Kael had allied himself with the Legion pretty much before we ever set foot on Outland. The naga on the other hand... Blizzard has never explained that one, some think the naga were helping Kael, some seem to think they were gathering water for a Well of Eternity in Outland, while it may just be that water is a valued resource on Outland.

Either way, the Kael story actually led into the Kil'jaeden thing. He even trash talked Illidan as a half elf mongrel, as I recall.

Edit - Oh, almost forgot about the orc thing, that was essentially Illidan's first move to take Outland from the Legion's control, given that Mannoroth had control over the orcs as well as the previous demon occupation. So taking control of the orcs was kind of necessary.

KT defecting to the Burning Legion is - without question - one of the worst stories in the game, and from a lore perspective (given the heritage of his people, his familial lineage, and his personality), it makes no sense. In essence, they butchered an excellent character for the sake of raid loot.

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1. They're not spaceships, they're trans-dimensional ships.

2. If there's anything bad, then they can have a good side to them. For example, Draenei.

3. Illidan was NEVER the main Villain, Kil'jaeden was.

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Also, The Broken Isles were a good idea to start the Invasion, as the Tomb was always described have having enough power to create a Portal so large, that it'd rival the Well of Eternity in might.

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I was expecting The Tomb of Sargeras to be a raid. It is a raid. Not a Continent.

I was expecting Illidan. I wasn't expecting Odyn, and/or EN, however. I always thought that the Emerald Nightmare would be for a Black Empire expansion. But, it's alright.

However, I was expecting a Legion to happen, cause Khadgar said "I fear this is only the beginning" during the 6.2 cinematic. Not to mention that, during Blizzcon of 2013, they said that WoD would lead into the next expac. And, since 6.2 had Fel, and Demons, and Archimonde and shit, I was expecting a LOT!

And I was expecting a second expansion on Draenor - coupled with a non-shit story - that fleshed out the planet in greater detail. Otherwise, what's the point of having an alternate version of reality? They muddled the lore for the sake of the movie, and by doing, alienated a significant portion of their community.

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The argument is largely invalid unless you are talking about Warcraft 1 and MAYBE 2...

By the time we got around to WC3 it was literally space demons and their pal the alien lifeform imprisoned in a helmet at the north pole.

Actually, no, yeah... Outland was a thing in WC2... There has always been inter-dimensional war.

...

Are you sure you meant to play this particular game?

What? The lore - as you're describing it - never existed in WCIII (it's early... just ignore this statement). If I had to take a guess, I would safely assert that 90% of the crap that we're dealing with is post-WotLK BS from AA/Kosak and Co. butchering what's left of this IP. We went from a believable story - coupled with demonic elements - to StarCraft in a Warcraft setting.

[Nathanyel]

This could just be me tinfoil hatting something chronic and I'll admit that, but a part of me wonders if it's something related to Blizz trying to bury the leaks behind a ton of spam. Iirc it didn't start up until Gamescom and I don't think I've ever seen it this bad.

Oooor you just look into the forum overview more often, now that BlizzCon is coming ever closer and you are hoping for leaks.

[Raetary]

Holy fuck the spam in General is beyond anything... They need to find a way to stop it.

its even worse on phone.

gotta scroll for half a minute till you find a serious thread.

[Lulbalance]

This could just be me tinfoil hatting something chronic and I'll admit that, but a part of me wonders if it's something related to Blizz trying to bury the leaks behind a ton of spam. Iirc it didn't start up until Gamescom and I don't think I've ever seen it this bad.

There's no way that's what's going on here, ha.

[Drekmar]

This could just be me tinfoil hatting something chronic and I'll admit that, but a part of me wonders if it's something related to Blizz trying to bury the leaks behind a ton of spam. Iirc it didn't start up until Gamescom and I don't think I've ever seen it this bad.

Bruh, thats some giga mega tinfoil hat shit. Never have I laughed so hard in my life. Good one.