(Possible Spoilers?) Jaina Proudmoore Betrays The Alliance?

[rhorle]

So how is she going to betray the Alliance after the death of Varian, when there is no trust to betray? I doubt she'll ever regain whatever trust they had in her before Varians death. If anything Varimathras is saying is even true, this part cannot refer to Sylvanas.

It doesn't indicate who is doing the betraying only that there will be betrayal. Any number of forsaken sympathizers could infiltrate any throne on Azeroth and go on a rampage. You know just like a certain Dragon betrayed a throne, or a certain Bishop betrayed the light. Or all of the various quests dealing with bad guys in Stormwind Keep (Most recent ones having the legion).

[Traveler Voltin]

My new theory on the alliance quote.

Alliance have a betrayer that some how starts the faction war.
By the time they figure it out the horde(forsaken) have already beaten them. or something like that

[nVIDIA]

Nice, we going to kill suckvanas

[Daevelian]

Or, it could, you know, be Sylvanas betraying the trust of the alliance and killing a bunch of them in one swoop.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Or, it could, you know, be Sylvanas betraying the trust of the alliance and killing a bunch of them in one swoop.

What trust is there to break? Both factions hate eachother,

[Daevelian]

What trust is there to break? Both factions hate eachother,

The trust that will so obviously be shakily rebuilt as they celebrate the defeat of one of WoW's oldest and greatest enemies?

[Friendlyimmolation]

jaina is like Cersei Lannister and sylvannas is like Daenerys Targaryen lets see who wins in both cases

I don't think Sylvanas fits Danery's profile very well.

- - - Updated - - -

The trust that will so obviously be shakily rebuilt as they celebrate the defeat of one of WoW's oldest and greatest enemies?

"I still want lordaeron"


/war resumes.

[DarkTZeratul]

jaina is like Cersei Lannister and sylvannas is like Daenerys Targaryen lets see who wins in both cases

I think a better comparison would be that Jaina is Catelyn Stark (from the books, given a certain plot that the show isn't doing) and Sylvanas is Cersei Lannister.

[Mehrunes]

The trust that will so obviously be shakily rebuilt as they celebrate the defeat of one of WoW's oldest and greatest enemies?

Built on the solid foundation of Genn attacking the Horde in the middle of that enemy invading Azeroth, when the world's prospects already looked quite bleak.

[Daevelian]

Oh hey, look at that, people with a known horde bias thinking peace talks are not an option after taking out something that is quite potentially a galaxy ending threat who, over several thousand years, has shaped the history of several races in the horde and alliance.

What a surprise... Stay classy folks, stay classy.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Oh hey, look at that, people with a known horde bias thinking peace talks are not an option after taking out something that is quite potentially a galaxy ending threat who, over several thousand years, has shaped the history of several races in the horde and alliance.

What a surprise... Stay classy folks, stay classy.

Jaina and Genn are alive last I checked? So is Lorthemar/ Sylvanas? Then peace wont happen any time soon. If Genn attacked Sylvanas in the middle of the legion threat, what reason would the Horde anticipate peace?

did you pay any attention to the intro of Stormheim?

[Mehrunes]

Oh hey, look at that, people with a known horde bias thinking peace talks are not an option after taking out something that is quite potentially a galaxy ending threat who, over several thousand years, has shaped the history of several races in the horde and alliance.

What a surprise... Stay classy folks, stay classy.

"Option". "Will obviously be rebuilt". But why bother getting a straight narrative or address a comment to an entirely different point when you can level up deflection instead. Also, how would bias for either faction even enter the picture here? Finally, the precedent of Cata, in which we removed a thousands years old world ending threat than shaped the history of several races doesn't bode well for the idea that the factions have to sing kumbaya together because Legion is done for.

[Daevelian]

Jaina and Genn are alive last I checked? So is Lorthemar/ Sylvanas? Then peace wont happen any time soon. If Genn attacked Sylvanas in the middle of the legion threat, what reason would the Horde anticipate peace?

did you pay any attention to the intro of Stormheim?

Did you know there are leaders other than them? Did you know about Velen, Anduin, Tyrande, The council of Hammers, Mekkatorque, Baine, Gallywix, Thrall/Saurfang and whoever the new troll racial leader is?

A lot of them have equal or greater say than the 4 you listed above and, quite frankly, outnumber them too. Plus, the whole premise of this situation is that one of your four listed warmongers actually DOES betray them when peace talks are attempted, so.... GG?

As i said earlier in this thread, i can see something similar happening to how Cersei blew up the Sept in Game of Thrones.

[Zulkhan]

Oh hey, look at that, people with a known horde bias thinking peace talks are not an option after taking out something that is quite potentially a galaxy ending threat who, over several thousand years, has shaped the history of several races in the horde and alliance.

What a surprise... Stay classy folks, stay classy.

I mean, it can even be an option but there's no doubt Genn and Rogers screwed it big time. And of course some bitter memories from the Garrosh's era surely lingers still.

It's not impossible but surely is not feasible either. You should know that problems begin exactly when the common threat forcing everyone to band together against is no more.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Did you know there are leaders other than them? Did you know about Velen, Anduin, Tyrande, The council of Hammers, Mekkatorque, Baine, Gallywix, Thrall/Saurfang and whoever the new troll racial leader is?

A lot of them have equal or greater say than the 4 you listed above and, quite frankly, outnumber them too. Plus, the whole premise of this situation is that one of your four listed warmongers actually DOES betray them when peace talks are attempted, so.... GG?

As i said earlier in this thread, i can see something similar happening to how Cersei blew up the Sept in Game of Thrones.

All submit to the Ruling of the Warchief. As per nature of the Horde.

[Daevelian]

All submit to the Ruling of the Warchief. As per nature of the Horde.

Garrosh wants a word with you.

[Zulkhan]

Garrosh wants a word with you.

That's what you get when you give a shotgun to a 9 years old.

[Daevelian]

That's what you get when you give a shotgun to a 9 years old.

Indeed, though the fact still stands that he WAS their warchief. Clearly the nature of the horde is to submit to the ruling of the warchief as much as "victory or death" is to be followed on the broken shore.

[KrazyK923]

Did you know there are leaders other than them? Did you know about Velen, Anduin, Tyrande, The council of Hammers, Mekkatorque, Baine, Gallywix, Thrall/Saurfang and whoever the new troll racial leader is?

A lot of them have equal or greater say than the 4 you listed above and, quite frankly, outnumber them too. Plus, the whole premise of this situation is that one of your four listed warmongers actually DOES betray them when peace talks are attempted, so.... GG?.

The Warchief has, historically, been an absolutist authoritarian position. Nobody is your equal. Nowadays after Garrosh and Vol'jin and Sylvanas? Who knows, but I would assume at least Baine and Saurfang and *insert Troll here* probably still observe this rule. Lor'themar never really did, much, since he began talks with the opposing faction, and Gallywix only cares about money.

[Zulkhan]

Indeed, though the fact still stands that he WAS their warchief. Clearly the nature of the horde is to submit to the ruling of the warchief as much as "victory or death" is to be followed on the broken shore.

"Victory or death" is mostly a motto and everyone takes it as he wants. Saurfang, who developed Broxigar levels of suicidal tendencies in Legion, had issues with the Broken Shore retreating but on a general level such cry was born from the days Orcs were enslaved 24/7 by Ogres. It's a statement showing spite against submission, not necessarily a disgust against any form of tactical retreat.

Then again, that's just a motto. The Warchief position is way more important. Still, power lies where everyone believes it lies so as much of a dictator you can be, your power becomes meaningless if no one acknowledges it (which is the exact warning/threat Vol'jin spat on Garrosh's face back in Cataclysm) but that's clearly not an easy occurence. It took years for Garrosh to finally band the whole of the Horde against him and he sold reasons for that common front to become a thing like candies. However, as long the vast majority of the Horde acknowledges and respect the Warchief in charge, his dictatorial power will not have much bonds.