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  1. #1

    Too many trinkets need help

    Hello friends, I have no clue what trinkets to use and simcraft seems to be telling me the highest dmg output is from convergance and eye of command but I wanted to get a 2nd opinion from you guys.*

    Here are the trinkets I have at my disposal currently.

    claw-of-the-crystalline-scorpid 905 ilvl

    specter-of-betrayal 915 ilvl

    convergence-of-fates 885 ilvl

    eye-of-command 905 ilvl

    cradle-of-anguish 920 ilvl


    Thank you in advance.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    So specter, and eye? that literally sims 100k less dps than convg and eye

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by bukowski View Post
    So specter, and eye? that literally sims 100k less dps than convg and eye
    You cannot trust sims for Convergeance though. Change the fight duration by 20 seconds and it's value may plummet. The standard sim is at 6 minutes which is a very good fight duration for Convergeance since it gives you an extra Crusade. If you change the fight duration to 6:30, watch it become the worst trinket.

    Also you should read the entire post in the Silver Hand. Specter sims great but it is only great for very specific encounters and only if used properly (tbh you CAN use it on most fights in this tier, you just need to know how).

    Also Cinders will pull ahead if you have a couple more Cinders in the raid group.

    I'd say that apart from the Cradle, you can use all of the rest (but only use Convergeance if you are comfortably certain about how long the fight will be).
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2017-07-10 at 02:32 PM.

  5. #5
    Eye of Command is great... unless you have to switch targets then you lose all your stacks. So there are some fights where it won't be practical.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    You cannot trust sims for Convergeance though. Change the fight duration by 20 seconds and it's value may plummet. The standard sim is at 6 minutes which is a very good fight duration for Convergeance since it gives you an extra Crusade. If you change the fight duration to 6:30, watch it become the worst trinket.

    Also you should read the entire post in the Silver Hand. Specter sims great but it is only great for very specific encounters and only if used properly (tbh you CAN use it on most fights in this tier, you just need to know how).

    Also Cinders will pull ahead if you have a couple more Cinders in the raid group.

    I'd say that apart from the Cradle, you can use all of the rest (but only use Convergeance if you are comfortably certain about how long the fight will be).

    I have 920 ilvl and I can't seem to pull over 800k dps, I believe my rotation isn't bad but it really gets affected by my trinkets, i sim 800k with certain and 900k with others. Overall, i've been trying to get cinder for a while wasted 5 seals on heroic. But, overall what trinkets do you recommend I use for most encounters?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    You cannot trust sims for Convergeance though. Change the fight duration by 20 seconds and it's value may plummet. The standard sim is at 6 minutes which is a very good fight duration for Convergeance since it gives you an extra Crusade. If you change the fight duration to 6:30, watch it become the worst trinket.

    Also you should read the entire post in the Silver Hand. Specter sims great but it is only great for very specific encounters and only if used properly (tbh you CAN use it on most fights in this tier, you just need to know how).

    Also Cinders will pull ahead if you have a couple more Cinders in the raid group.

    I'd say that apart from the Cradle, you can use all of the rest (but only use Convergeance if you are comfortably certain about how long the fight will be).

    So you recommend I use Eye and Cradle?

  8. #8
    the only two fights its worth using spectre are Goroth (if you position them in the path the tank kites) and Inquisition. Could Work on Desolate Host but the host dies before the add and you might end up screwing at least one up. Convergence is only good if you manage to get an extra crusade. Eye of command is bad on Inq, sisters, host and avatar.
    If i were you id pug goroth and use up all my coins to get cinders. It's really good. Im using Cinders and either spectre (910), Claw (910) or FCM (900). Will swicth all of those for a Vial of Ceaceless toxins for st and Umbral Moonglaives for AoE if i ever get them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Samin View Post
    People QQ about EVERYTHING. Even the smallest.
    Except AoE looting. Everyone fucking loves AoE looting and would go as far as making it their sole reasong to resub...
    *sigh*
    Quote Originally Posted by KonkeroaR View Post
    Fuck it, I'm going all in. WoW will lose 30 million subs when WoD launches and the remaining -22 million subscriber deficit will bankrupt Blizzard entirely.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Aly31 View Post
    the only two fights its worth using spectre are Goroth (if you position them in the path the tank kites) and Inquisition. Could Work on Desolate Host but the host dies before the add and you might end up screwing at least one up. Convergence is only good if you manage to get an extra crusade. Eye of command is bad on Inq, sisters, host and avatar.
    If i were you id pug goroth and use up all my coins to get cinders. It's really good. Im using Cinders and either spectre (910), Claw (910) or FCM (900). Will swicth all of those for a Vial of Ceaceless toxins for st and Umbral Moonglaives for AoE if i ever get them.

    I see, I'm gonna try to run mythic just to kill Goroth and waste my last seal there. Yeah it makes sense to just switch accordingly. With all these pugs convergance is probably very effective since i usually get like three wings up during.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bukowski View Post
    So you recommend I use Eye and Cradle?
    Eye will be solid on ST fights (Goroth, Maiden) but I am not sure about other fights (it resets on Avatar when you switch to Maiden which is a bad moment to lose dps if your group does not overgear it, it will reset frequently on Inquisition, Sisters and Kil'jaeden, almost constantly on Host; on Harjatan and Sassz'ine if you can tunnel the boss and just cleave adds it might be very solid). I said apart from Cradle because it's not even competing with the rest, it's fairly bad (resets constantly and takes a while to stack). I'd recommend you only use convergeance if you know it will work for the encounter (and this early encounter length will change constantly as people get new gear so that's a tall order). Don't use Cradle, use the other three depending on how your group does the fight.

  11. #11
    Okay, I sure will. Thank you so much everyone, I really appreciate it <3

  12. #12
    Of the trinkets you have, use Eye in every situation (ST or Cleave) but alternate between Specter/Convergence for ST and Claw for Cleave.

    The swap between CoF and Specter for ST depends on movement. High movement fights (as in moving the boss a lot) you'll lose a lot of damage potential from Specter, so just use your Convergence.

    For Cleave/AoE keep your Eye and use Claw. Some ppl will argue that Eye will lower your stacks if you hard swap, so don't hard swap. Your main AoE abilities are Divine Hammer and Divine Storm. Don't need to Hard swap for those to hit all targets. Keep your main target on boss for Crusader Strikes/Judgement and everything else is a full cleave anyway so you'll keep your 10 stacks of crit.

    Specter CAN be used for AoE as well, but again be mindful of boss movement if you're going to use it (but only instead of Eye, keep the Claw)

    Now, for the trinkets you DON'T have, keep the above setup, but swap your CoF for a Vial of Ceaseless Toxins once you get one for ST, and swap claw for Moonglaives once you get that trinket. Then, instead of Eye, get yourself an infernal Cinders. Mine was outputting some very good DPS for a trinket on Skada charts (15+ million Damage in most fights in Heroic ToS, often up to 18mil) and that's with only one other person or zero others using one. It's a solid trinket for Ret and I would use it in almost any situation: Cleave: Cinders+Moonglaive ST: Cinders+Vial/Specter(based on boss movement)

    Hope this helps, this is all based on personal and practical use of my trinkets too. Let me know if you have any other questions.
    Last edited by xxcloud417xx; 2017-07-12 at 11:16 PM.

  13. #13
    I have a similar dilemna.

    I have an 875 Eye of Command (no chest), along with 900 Infernal Cinders, but I currently have Infernal Cinders and a 910 Stalwart Crest (1180 Crit and 150 Haste Socket) equipped.

    Switch trinkets, or keep what I got?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Krek01 View Post
    I have a similar dilemna.

    I have an 875 Eye of Command (no chest), along with 900 Infernal Cinders, but I currently have Infernal Cinders and a 910 Stalwart Crest (1180 Crit and 150 Haste Socket) equipped.

    Switch trinkets, or keep what I got?
    Hmm, tough call. Keep Cinders, sim the other two against each other. I have a feeling the Stat Stick may sim higher because of the raw strength being much higher though, but sim and see. That's the only definite answer I can give you man.

  15. #15

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by xxcloud417xx View Post
    For Cleave/AoE keep your Eye and use Claw. Some ppl will argue that Eye will lower your stacks if you hard swap, so don't hard swap. Your main AoE abilities are Divine Hammer and Divine Storm. Don't need to Hard swap for those to hit all targets. Keep your main target on boss for Crusader Strikes/Judgement and everything else is a full cleave anyway so you'll keep your 10 stacks of crit.
    You don't need to hard swap to cleave, yes (so not for Harjatan or Sassz'ine). You will need to hard swap often on Demonic Inquisition and unless you grossly overgear it, you should hard swap for Avatar when the Maiden bubbles. You will also need to swap several times on Sisters and again if you do not overgear the fight, you should swap for Moontalon and again for Embrace of the Eclipse. If you are on Spirit side on Desolate Host, the adds are unlikely to be grouped up well enough for you to be able to hit them all while in melee with Dejahna so you'll swap there as well. In any of these cases when the trinket will reset relatively frequently, a stat stick will be better.

  17. #17
    I'm finding this incredibly difficult. I have 915 Cinders, 910 Specter, 895 CoF, 900 Moonglaives, 920 Claw, 925 Vial, 915 Horn of Valor. The problem with sims is that Blizzard have designed this tier's trinkets to be incredibly sensitive to exactly how the fight works - it's no use just simming with the example fights SimC ships with! If the melee aren't stacked, Cinders loses a lot of value. If the boss gets moved, Specter sucks. If the fight length doesn't give you an extra Crusade, CoF is useless. If the add waves don't line up with Moonglaives' CD, it's not as good. Vial wants a relatively steady stream of adds to get most value. Cradle depends on the damage you take. Argh!

    Does anyone know of a set of SimC fight models that actually reflect ToS fights?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePants999 View Post
    I'm finding this incredibly difficult. I have 915 Cinders, 910 Specter, 895 CoF, 900 Moonglaives, 920 Claw, 925 Vial, 915 Horn of Valor. The problem with sims is that Blizzard have designed this tier's trinkets to be incredibly sensitive to exactly how the fight works - it's no use just simming with the example fights SimC ships with! If the melee aren't stacked, Cinders loses a lot of value. If the boss gets moved, Specter sucks. If the fight length doesn't give you an extra Crusade, CoF is useless. If the add waves don't line up with Moonglaives' CD, it's not as good. Vial wants a relatively steady stream of adds to get most value. Cradle depends on the damage you take. Argh!

    Does anyone know of a set of SimC fight models that actually reflect ToS fights?
    Acording to Thordos (thesliverhand.net) Cinders is more than decent regardless of people in 10yards. Same with Vial. I'd use those two if i were you and Moonglaives for stuff like Mistress
    Quote Originally Posted by Samin View Post
    People QQ about EVERYTHING. Even the smallest.
    Except AoE looting. Everyone fucking loves AoE looting and would go as far as making it their sole reasong to resub...
    *sigh*
    Quote Originally Posted by KonkeroaR View Post
    Fuck it, I'm going all in. WoW will lose 30 million subs when WoD launches and the remaining -22 million subscriber deficit will bankrupt Blizzard entirely.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePants999 View Post
    I'm finding this incredibly difficult. I have 915 Cinders, 910 Specter, 895 CoF, 900 Moonglaives, 920 Claw, 925 Vial, 915 Horn of Valor. The problem with sims is that Blizzard have designed this tier's trinkets to be incredibly sensitive to exactly how the fight works - it's no use just simming with the example fights SimC ships with! If the melee aren't stacked, Cinders loses a lot of value. If the boss gets moved, Specter sucks. If the fight length doesn't give you an extra Crusade, CoF is useless. If the add waves don't line up with Moonglaives' CD, it's not as good. Vial wants a relatively steady stream of adds to get most value. Cradle depends on the damage you take. Argh!

    Does anyone know of a set of SimC fight models that actually reflect ToS fights?
    Cinders is really good for Ret anyway, regardless of if anyone else has it or not. Sims actually assume nobody else has it, so it underestimates its potential performance if anything. If anyone else has it, it just gets even better. If you want to not think about it too much, just go Cinders/Vial for single target and Cinders/Moonglaives for AOE. Feel free to delay Umbral's use some if adds are coming up soon because it just gets better with more targets. Also try to keep Crusade in mind though.

  20. #20
    I have done some sims, and I don't trust TheSilverHand's graphs - I don't know what fight parameters were used to generate them. What my simming told me is that, actually, ALL the ToS trinkets (except Engine of Eradication) can be one of the two best if put in a situation that plays to their strengths, which means that sims are useless unless you simulate a reasonably accurate model of the actual fight you want to know about. Hence wanting to know if anyone has done such modelling for ToS

    I'll accept that you can't go FAR wrong with "Cinders/Vial for single target and Cinders/Moonglaives for AOE", but I believe that's not optimal, and I want to be optimal.

    Note, FWIW, that although sims do assume nobody else has Cinders by default, you can set a variable to tell it how many others do.

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