Official Forums no longer have downvotes.

[SirCowdog]

If your argument is that people aren't using it as it's intended feature, then it's not something that can be fixed. It's like saying that someone who types out the post to say, "I agree with this", doesn't actually mean that he agrees with it.

My argument is not that the upvote/downvote system can be fixed(because I think it should be removed entirely). But if the intent is to further promote real discussion and arguments, then simply removing ONLY the downvote option is a disingenuous way of going about it.

[rda]

EDIT: It's not so much that I mind Blizzard trying to make themselves look better. After all, they're a business. It's part of their job to improve their image. What I dislike is the disingenuous attempt to make it seem like they're doing this for our benefit. If this was actually about improving discussion and promoting a healthy forum community, they'd nuke the voting system entirely and hire some halfway decent CMs and forum moderators.

They are doing it for our benefit. Yes, removing the pluses would have been even better, but most of the damage is in the minuses (and in them hiding comments, provoking wars over "who" instead of "what", etc) and with that removed, things get significantly better than before. With time, they might remove pluses as well, although probably not before the Internet at large will start removing them (and there are legitimate reasons for having pluses stay, this needs time to be sorted out).

[SirCowdog]

They are doing it for our benefit. Yes, removing the pluses would have been even better, but most of the damage is in the minuses (and in them hiding comments, provoking wars over "who" instead of "what", etc) and with that removed, things get significantly better than before. With time, they might remove pluses as well, although probably not before the Internet at large will start removing them (and there are legitimate reasons for having pluses stay, this needs time to be sorted out).

The amount of benefit to blizzard FAR outweighs the amount of benefit to the player community. "Hey guys, we're getting a MASSIVE increase in PR out of this, but you won't have to feel bad about downvotes anymore. We're TOTALLY doing this for you guys. Really!"

/facepalm

[ItachiZaku]

Woe is you? Downvoting only promotes "silencing" opposing opinions. Just look at reddit and how quickly posts that don't follow what's popular get downvoted into oblivion.

Yeah, when the Warsong Battalion GM was leaving, anyone wishing him well etc was downvoted by Alliance scumbags. Really, the Wow forums are full of scumbags anyways. I kinda usually forget that they are there.

[rda]

The amount of benefit to blizzard FAR outweighs the amount of benefit to the player community. "Hey guys, we're getting a MASSIVE increase in PR out of this, but you won't have to feel bad about downvotes anymore. We're TOTALLY doing this for you guys. Really!"

/facepalm

I disagree. The benefits to the player community is that there is much less circlejerking because circlejerking no longer silences your opponents. These benefits are big.

Seriously, I genuinely believe Blizzard are doing it for the players. You saw my posts, I am very frequently very critical of Blizzard. But in this case I know what the root reasons are. Everybody who touches big Internet businesses does - big sites are gradually downscaling the effect of voting systems because these systems heavily discredited themselves over the years.

Voting systems were one of the many ideas that got popular in that time where everybody and their dog rushed to the Internet 10+ years ago. During the rush everyone was busily adopting every idea that seemed sound because nobody knew what really is going to work and what isn't, and there was no time to sit back and choose based on the results, because that way you would be late. Many other ideas that were adopted widely already failed. Some succeeded. The voting systems failed as well, but since they didn't fail as hard as some others, they were still with us due to inertia. There was plenty of research that the voting systems do much more harm to the discussions / material selection / anything than they do good and the big players started removing them several years ago. Now this wave finally came to Blizzard, that's all.

They aren't doing this for themselves. It isn't their idea in the first place. They are simply following where others go. In this case the direction is good, it makes things better, throwing away the ugly baggage.

[Snackpack]

Depends on the forum/post type. Down voting bug reports or support questions is unnecessary, but it can be a good way to provide feedback as a form of survey/poll. Who knows if Blizzard ever used it this way, though.

[Eggroll]

If Blizzard actually believed that arguments, and not votes, made the difference, then they'd have gotten rid of upvotes too. But only having upvotes looks better on paper.

In short: once again you should look at their actions, not their words.

It's more an instrument to take negativity for negativities sake away. I players had made responsible use of the feature they may not even have removed it. And it's Blizzard's space after all, so they can apply whatever means they see fit to improve the environment. I think its a good means to improve the atmosphere on the forums because negative nate will probably not bother to make an argument, while it is easy to just downvote something.

As he said, you can still report offensive/troll threads.

- - - Updated - - -

But how will idiots understand their stupid as fuck posts are stupid if they don't get a lashing of downvotes.

By making your point why YOU think their post is stupid as fuck WITHOUT verbally abusing him? Oh wait...

[Wondercrab]

Excellent. Ever since the system was implemented far too many discussions have gotten derailed by people talking about who's up/downvoting them rather than focusing on the topic at hand. The more people engage with actual topics of discussion rather than fixating on how well their posts are being scored the better.

[emilylorange]

No, removing minuses is the right move.

The Internet was too fast to adopt them, and they got adopted basically out of symmetry with pluses. As time went on it became more and more apparent that minuses actively stifle discussions and instead of making them healthier, make them one-sided brewing vitriol and aggression. All of that multiplied if the downvoted comments change their look or, worse yet, get hidden.

Has it occurred to anyone yet the problem isn't 'downvoting', the problem is people desperately want the community to police itself so they don't have to invest in proper oversight and moderation?

I mean I've seen it literally take hours for a post on the official forums threatening other users with gun violence to vanish, during the US work day.

Because hiring more than 3 people total to moderate a forum with thousands of users is just too dern much to ask.

If you want a 'positive' community experience you have to be active and set a goddamn example and stop trying to get cute automated or user-generated systems to fix it for you.

[beefy48]

Not surprising. Youtube and Facebook did away with dislikes too for the very same reason.

Having a system where you can only hit like, means someone saying something stupid will get few likes, and someone saying something good will get many likes.

It means noting of the sort. I saw a number of posts that would say a 100 likes, but 3 or 4 times the dislikes. The number of likes or dislikes mean nothing if you don't have anything to compare it to.

I think the whole like/dislike system is silly to honest. I would do away with both of them, especially in the Wow forums.

[Kynario]

Just want to say, I very rarely saw anyone that posted a reasoned response that was posted constructively get down voted into oblivion. 95% of the stuff I've see down voted was generally more troll in nature " yall just sucks", " don't like it than quit ", etc. Very rarely did I see what you described happen.

Having seen Blizzard's response I also put some of the blame on them. If they wanted the dislike button to be used in a certain way, well they should have given it another name. " Dislike " is a pretty broad term to just throw out there.

I see what you mean. I've only had limited encouters with the system as I largely use MMO-Champion, so you probably know more about this than me... Be that as it may here is my post from the official WoW forums last year that got down-voted a lot (because people didn't agree) despite being well-reasoned and constructively put. Did I deserve it just because people didn't agree? Did I do something wrong?

Not sure whether the devs will read this, but I'd love this game even more if these changes occured (or re-occured since they used to be like this). ;-)

So I've been levelling a character recently, first time in the new (Cataclysm) Azeroth actually. Last time I properly levelled an "alt" through Azeroth was in WoTLK, haha. I have played said character with zero heirlooms, too. Before I finished the mini quest-chains in Goldshire, I was already being sent to Westfall. The levelling is so fast I barely got to touch the quests in Westbrook Garrison/Eastvale Logging Camp in Elwynn Forest before I out-levelled the zone. Furthermore, remember when you had to go to Fargodeep Mine and had to pull each Kobold one by one and not pull like four at the same time and still be fine? Everything is just so damn easy. Anyway, I decided to head to Darkshore though at level 10. Pretty much half-way through the zone I had hit level 20 and was being sent to Ashenvale now, and the same story continued until I hit level 25 and decided to delete the character out of sheer boredom. You can't even peacefully finish the quests in a zone before you out-level it. (Of course, nobody is forcing you to leave that zone - but let's be realistic - if you're a level 25 questing in a level 20 zone it just doesn't feel optimal anymore)... Moreover, acquiring a new piece of gear doesn't make you feel stronger because you're already strong and killing everything fast to begin with. Hence equipment upgrades are pretty much obsolete at low levels too. I also tanked the Deadmines (as a Protection Warrior) and was shocked that two rogues, whose job is to be a DPS, could keep chain-pulling the dungeon and easily survive. Are tanks obsolete at lower levels now too?

I hate 1-2 shotting mobs personally, and that's coming from someone who had no heirlooms, no necklace or ring items yet, haha. Is it supposed to be this badly balanced? I had to clear out a cave to the north of Ashenvale and could easily pull like half of it and survive. Is the world not supposed to feel dangerous anymore? I see an elite mob 5 levels above me and I'm no longer scared and can easily solo him.

I guess I miss the fact that the game used to be way harder and that hitting max level was an achievement in itself. This isn't a problem with WoW not being good anymore. I think overall it's fantastic. But do players not seek challenges anymore? Is it satisfying to have everything so easy? Will they ever make it harder again? If not, why not add optional difficulty settings like in most RPG games i.e. like Skyrim? Have current WoW be set to normal and allow players to change it "Hard" if they want a challenge - i.e. not killing mobs in 1-2 shots, and having to strategically pull mob packs etc.
Should players not be given options like this?

Btw, I'm a soon-to-be dental surgeon... Hence I'm relatively short on time. Still, I prefer my games to be "time-consuming" and difficult. Despite not having a lot of time, I still love challenges and working towards something over the course of several weeks/months. I get the appeal for end-game content (which doesn't interest me that much however to be honest), but what about early to mid-game content and levelling - do people care about this anymore at all? Will levelling ever be relevant, important and challenging again?

On another note: are Hard-Mode Realms or Pristine Realms out of the window too? I think this idea is fantastic. Even one realm per region would be great to start with.

So my intentions are clear, I don't want to start a "flame" thread. ;-) I obviously care about the game deeply and wanted to provide constructive feedback/thoughts.

[Dug]

I don't see a problem with a downvote system. If your post is shit and most people agree its shit and would rather see more meaningful posts towards the top then that's fine in my book. I get downvotes on Reddit but I don't cry about it.

[Polarthief]

So glad they're gone because they weren't helpful. If something is truly bad/trolling, it simply won't get upvotes. Now, innocent people won't get downvoted either.

A really good way to test this is to find the post for the latest video of a youtuber (Asmongold, Preach, etc.) - Disagree with them because they're wrong, and instantly get like 100 downvotes.

Yeah, if you ever disagree with someone popular on the Internet, you can be sure to get mass downvoted to oblivion. Glad to see at least Blizzard acknowledged the system to be greatly flawed.

Not surprising. Youtube did away with dislikes too for the very same reason.

??? YouTube didn't.

I don't see a problem with a downvote system. If your post is shit and most people agree its shit and would rather see more meaningful posts towards the top then that's fine in my book. I get downvotes on Reddit but I don't cry about it.

Except that's not how it works. You can have legitimate counterarguments or an unpopular (but still valid) opinion and get downvoted to hell because people disagree with you. That is not how discussions should be going when such a large amount of the Internet population just loves bandwagoning, memes, or other dumb crap.

[Dug]

Except that's not how it works. You can have legitimate counterarguments or an unpopular (but still valid) opinion and get downvoted to hell because people disagree with you. That is not how discussions should be going when such a large amount of the Internet population just loves bandwagoning, memes, or other dumb crap.

Fine line between self perceived legitimate counterarguments and just shitposting contrarianism for the sake of it. I see lots of counter arguments left up towards the top if they're actually constructive and well thought out. The ones at the bottom are always garbage with terrible logic and a million replies from the OP going in circles about their victimhood and people "silencing" them.

Plus I personally don't see it as silencing since they can still be read.

[Jester Joe]

Downvoting was awful anyway.

The moment you disagreed with the forum, you'd be downvoted into oblivion, no matter how well thought out your post was. Like Blizzard said, that wasn't the intention (although I do wonder why they labeled it as "I dislike this" then, instead of just "Downvote", granted, results would be the same either way though).

[RoKPaNda]

Fine line between self perceived legitimate counterarguments and just shitposting contrarianism for the sake of it. I see lots of counter arguments left up towards the top if they're actually constructive and well thought out. The ones at the bottom are always garbage with terrible logic and a million replies from the OP going in circles about their victimhood and people "silencing" them.

Plus I personally don't see it as silencing since they can still be read.

But that's the thing, if your opinion is different from the kneejerk bullshit whining that the community does, you get downvoted and they'll cry about how it's "just contrarianism" - You can have the most valid point in the history of valid points but if you disagree with what their YouTube hero tells them you're 100% wrong 100% of the time.

Or take Diablo 3 for example, Blizzard did a hotfix recently that nerfed one of the necromancer builds, if you correctly point out that the nerf isn't that severe, that you'd losing at most 3~ greater rift levels IF you were pushing higher greater rifts to start with, mass downvotes. It's stupidity.

[Dug]

But that's the thing, if your opinion is different from the kneejerk bullshit whining that the community does, you get downvoted and they'll cry about how it's "just contrarianism" - You can have the most valid point in the history of valid points but if you disagree with what their YouTube hero tells them you're 100% wrong 100% of the time.

Or take Diablo 3 for example, Blizzard did a hotfix recently that nerfed one of the necromancer builds, if you correctly point out that the nerf isn't that severe, that you'd losing at most 3~ greater rift levels IF you were pushing higher greater rifts to start with, mass downvotes. It's stupidity.

Well I'll admit it's a different beast when it comes to gaming communities and certain topics, sure. Especially so when it's the loud whiners that happen to be the majority but overall and in general I think an update/downvote system is fine but it can be abused. /shrug if that's what the forum team feel is best all the more power to them but their moderating jobs are going to get a lot tougher handling the influx of legitimate useless garbage posts.

[SirCowdog]

Has it occurred to anyone yet the problem isn't 'downvoting', the problem is people desperately want the community to police itself so they don't have to invest in proper oversight and moderation?

I mean I've seen it literally take hours for a post on the official forums threatening other users with gun violence to vanish, during the US work day.

Because hiring more than 3 people total to moderate a forum with thousands of users is just too dern much to ask.

If you want a 'positive' community experience you have to be active and set a goddamn example and stop trying to get cute automated or user-generated systems to fix it for you.

THANK YOU! Someone gets it, at least!

- - - Updated - - -

Downvoting was awful anyway.

The moment you disagreed with the forum, you'd be downvoted into oblivion, no matter how well thought out your post was. Like Blizzard said, that wasn't the intention (although I do wonder why they labeled it as "I dislike this" then, instead of just "Downvote", granted, results would be the same either way though).

Then they should have tried changing the up/down vote to "agree/disagree". Removed the post burying function, and remove the green/red color scheme. It would have changed the psychological effect of posts being "good or bad" with a punishment of hiding the bad posts, to one where it's a simple measure of agreement or disagreement.

And if you can't make your post without handling someone(or a group of someones) disagreeing with you, then you have no business being on the internet. That's probably why they went with only upvotes: because it creates the illusion that no one ever disagrees with your posts, only upvotes them. It's a load of bullshit.

[GutsAP]

Good.

Anybody who wasn't an LFR shitter got downvoted to hell on the official forums.

[nekobaka]

There has been prior commentary from Blues before about abuse of the system and looking into removing it. Surprised it took this long. I think likes should be hidden and used for dev purposes. Unsurprising those complaining about not being able to downvote trolls are trolling the like system.