So apparently the way to pug Maiden HC...

[Pantupino]

people just want a boss in which you cast one frostbolt and be done with it... Learn to coordinate, Discord is great for that! also.. get into a guild, should solve it too.

[Deleted]

Maiden, Avatar and KilJaeden all follow the pattern of personal responsibility as they are the end bosses of the raid. You'll see the same problems running explosions, soaking, blades on Avatar and soaking, stacking and forming a line on KilJaeden. The steady progression through the bosses is about right this time around.

personal responsibility = timmy the retard stands on fire. timmy the retard dies. everyone else with a functional brain do the mechanics and are fine.

shit that shouldn't appear until harder mythics = everyone for the most part does the mechanics fine. timmy the retard stands on fire. the fire explodes and kills everyone.


Yeah sorry no.

[Miatog]

Why do people still prefer to pug instead of finding a guild? You can find guilds which raid at the time you prefer and as many days per week as you prefer.

Pugging on average will waste you much more time, be less successful and less fun than a guild run.

There is no upside of pugging, I know people have other stuff to do and prefer to do the raid whenever they like, but it's such a small commitment with a much better experience.

If your program makes you work or do stuff at times of the raid, there are guilds which don't have mandatory showing up to raids and still succeed.

Because for some people it's not even a choice. I got one friend who is in a guild, is rarely if ever able to show up to any raid times. Work and life conspire to keep him from anything resembling a consistent schedule. He would prefer to run with his guild but pugs so that he can see raids outside of LFR.

[HuxNeva]

Even with no-one fucking up, due to the way the dmg was scaled on Maiden small groups have it much much easier than larger sizes. In small groups the whole stacking for hammer damage becomes moot as the tanks can easily solo soak the blow, while the dps can just ignore that mechanic and pewpew or deal with bombs 100%.

[Simmias]

personal responsibility = timmy the retard stands on fire. timmy the retard dies. everyone else with a functional brain do the mechanics and are fine.

shit that shouldn't appear until harder mythics = everyone for the most part does the mechanics fine. timmy the retard stands on fire. the fire explodes and kills everyone.


Yeah sorry no.

Only bad players dislike mechanics like this. You're Timmy the retard.
Infracted

[Valech]

Try as I might, I've yet to find a way to do mechanics for everyone in my raid group. Been raiding for 5 expansions, and still find my success tied to other players.

Find people on your level then.

[Deleted]

Only bad players dislike mechanics like this. You're Timmy the retard.

did your mother take drugs and drink too much alochol while she was pregnant with you?
Infracted

Good players don't like being punished by other people's errors.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Find people on your level then.

Wasn't really my point. The post I responded to implied it was OP's problem that he derped a simple mechanic. Realistically, the trick on Maiden is getting the entire raid to do the mechanic. Most attempts, 80% are doing it right but just a couple derp and cause a wipe. It's not always the same ones derping either. You can do it perfectly 4 times in a row only to wipe because someone else made a mistake, then when they get it right you finally derp because at this point your eyes are crossing from doing it so much. Honestly this is one of the simplest fights in the raid; the challenge is that no one can make a mistake.

I am sure everyone will get smoother with it over the coming weeks and it will be routine for pugs to one-shot this before we move on to Argus.

[Logwyn]

Why do people still prefer to pug instead of finding a guild? You can find guilds which raid at the time you prefer and as many days per week as you prefer.

Pugging on average will waste you much more time, be less successful and less fun than a guild run.

There is no upside of pugging, I know people have other stuff to do and prefer to do the raid whenever they like, but it's such a small commitment with a much better experience.

If your program makes you work or do stuff at times of the raid, there are guilds which don't have mandatory showing up to raids and still succeed.

I think its the guild mentality of you HAVE to show up for raid 100% on DAYX/DAYY/DAYZ or we put you on the bench or kick you from the guild. Is why guilds turn off some.

Yeah there are those no attendance guilds but you tend to put up with a number of the "pug" type player.

[Deleted]

I must say, I kinda hate how 1 person fucking up causes a domino effect and wipes the raid. That kind of crap needs to be kept to Mythic.

So lets get rid of personal responsability on the boss. No balls obviously, no colors because somebody can make a mistake and be fel on holly or viceversa. Also tanks have the personal responsability of hammers to not wipe the raid (holy on holy and fel on fel) so lets get rid of it too. Nice training dummy, it does a teleport and a 0,5 sec stun.

[Mamut]

Why exactly are you all assuming that it is ME who was struggling with the fight?

I can't control everyone else in the raid.


Because I don't like scheduling my life around a videogame. Guild/scheduled raiding is what made me burn out back in Cata. It's just too much stress, constantly worrying about "will I be able to make it to raid on time", and worrying about other things coming up and having to miss raid, etc.

I'll gladly take pugging over scheduled raiding. Being able to raid on my own time is much preferred, even if the trade-off is slower Heroic progression.

But heroic difficulty is and should be for more organised groups, why Blizz should dumb down HC? Theres LFR and normal for a reason.
After WotLK I played alone (my guild disbanded anyway) and was just pugging through cata-mop-wod. For Legion I decided to find casual guild because WoW without guild become very boring. We raid 2x per week, 100% attendance is not required at all, you can take day off from raid whenever you need. And still we managed to clear HC ToS and preparing atm for first mythic bosses.

And the most funny thing is I waste less time now compared to when I was pugging and I dont need to deal with constantly failing players, and still dont need to organise my life around video game.

[Deleted]

did your mother take drugs and drink too much alochol while she was pregnant with you?

Good players don't like being punished by other people's errors.

How would you know what good players like or don't like?

Hehe sorry that joke just had to be made

My suggestions:
a) PuG with good people only then
b) If that doesn't work then accept that everyone else has a learning curve and wipe a couple times till everyone gets it
c) don't PuG heroic

[Deleted]

So lets get rid of personal responsability on the boss. No balls obviously, no colors because somebody can make a mistake and be fel on holly or viceversa. Also tanks have the personal responsability of hammers to not wipe the raid (holy on holy and fel on fel) so lets get rid of it too. Nice training dummy, it does a teleport and a 0,5 sec stun.

or just make mismatching colora just instakill the offensing player then?

if hr makes a mistake he dies and geta kicked. good players who dont make a mistake gets their boss kill.

[Mamut]

or just make mismatching colora just instakill the offensing player then?

if hr makes a mistake he dies and geta kicked. good players who dont make a mistake gets their boss kill.

But then theres nothing left hard for this boss, even if 5 people die nothing really happen. You really want to have HC raid so easy?

[xcess]

You dont really need to get the orbs in HC, I think its fine for heroic, probably got 6 months of this so really much nothing else to do for majority of players

[anon5123]

So lets get rid of personal responsability on the boss. No balls obviously, no colors because somebody can make a mistake and be fel on holly or viceversa. Also tanks have the personal responsability of hammers to not wipe the raid (holy on holy and fel on fel) so lets get rid of it too. Nice training dummy, it does a teleport and a 0,5 sec stun.

I love how every time someone requests even a small reduction in difficulty, people like you fly way off the handle and take the complaints way too far.

Are you that insecure that you have to strawman the fuck out of anyone you disagree with?

But then theres nothing left hard for this boss

so the only way to make things hard is to have 1 mistake wipe the whole raid?

nice game design

[Valech]

Wasn't really my point. The post I responded to implied it was OP's problem that he derped a simple mechanic. Realistically, the trick on Maiden is getting the entire raid to do the mechanic. Most attempts, 80% are doing it right but just a couple derp and cause a wipe. It's not always the same ones derping either. You can do it perfectly 4 times in a row only to wipe because someone else made a mistake, then when they get it right you finally derp because at this point your eyes are crossing from doing it so much. Honestly this is one of the simplest fights in the raid; the challenge is that no one can make a mistake.

I am sure everyone will get smoother with it over the coming weeks and it will be routine for pugs to one-shot this before we move on to Argus.

Yup, misunderstood you. my bad.

Also, i totally agree. But I like punishing fights. In my opinion, to many fights revolved around a few players handling a majority of mechanics. With certain classes given a strong immunity or damage reduce, this will stay that way. Therefore I enjoy, that everyone has to pay attention for once.

[Deleted]

I love how every time someone requests even a small reduction in difficulty, people like you fly way off the handle and take the complaints way too far.

Are you that insecure that you have to strawman the fuck out of anyone you disagree with?

Way too far? You literally said to get rid of the personal responsability mechanics, on a boss that is based on 3 personal responsability skills. Also, if you are pugging just stay away people; if they are dumb you will never get bombed, problem solved. The only "difficulty" of this boss is a) know whats yellow and green b)DPS check on the shield. Point a) is pretty clear unless you are color blind, in which case balls are different so you can distinguish one from another. Point b) can be done without taking any ball because pugs waaaay overgear the intended ilvl, so they have tons of dmg compared to what's needed for the boss. Easy solution? Don't take any ball and stay away from people that are taking them.
Also fyi this boss has an extra mechanic where the difficulty really rises, because you ahve to take EVERY ball on both sides, so you need coordination, while pugging it just means you can go with 10 no-dumbases and down it without problems (furthermore, due to scaling, 10 man raids can be done without people even soaking the strike as it does near 15-20m damage, pretty easy to survive that as a tank with an external or personal).

[anon5123]

Way too far? You literally said to get rid of the personal responsability mechanics

Nowhere did I ask for them to be removed

I asked for them to not wipe the raid

again, strawmanning me

to the ignore list you go

[xcess]

well you must not like mistress too cos one person screw up hydra shot will wipe the raid. You said so yourself you had people die and stil killed it. Pretty sure we had people screw up the colors and still recovered. Its more forgiving than the next two bosses