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  1. #1

    No point to play Fury anymore

    People start to ask if I'm Arms or Fury before they invite, if I say Fury then it's a no. Bliz really screwed Fury up this tier:

    1. Loss of the strong T19 bonuses and DOS and nothing special in the TOS gear to compensate for them
    2. Poor T20 bonus design, the 2 piece bonus depends on crit, one of our lowest stats, while making us lose the furious slash BT crit bonus from T19.
    3. Lots of unavoidable damage in the boss fights but the extra 20% damage taken has not changed
    4. Weaker legendaries than most other classes

  2. #2
    Pit Lord
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    1) DoS dependency was terrible anyways and the 5% buff to the whole spec made up for it just fine.

    2) T20 is stronger than T19 currently as well. Sure the bonuses aren't fun but it's strong enough. The only real downside is that with a BT crit it still only a 50% chance to proc.

    3) You only take the 20% extra damage taken when enraged which is ~70% or so of the time. Even then our health pool more than offsets hits that happen to hit us for 20% more damage. The only downside to that is healers have more to heal, but the difference is hardly worth worrying about. My higher health pool with Fury has saved me quite a bit. Also makes Prydaz more valuable.

    4) Not really. It's just not so dependent on them like Arms is which isn't a bad thing.

    I don't know who's passing you up because of your spec because unless you're shooting for world firsts it's probably better that you didn't join the group. Fury might not be better than Arms overall at the moment but it's still plenty competitive. Single target is still fine (I managed 1.03mil on Heroic Goroth at 912 ilvl as Fury) and our quick burst windows and AoE burst is still pretty outstanding. With T20 4pc, glaives, CoF, and lego helm and pants my single target with Fury isn't far behind my Arms set which uses lego trink and execute ring with an 880 crystal. Fury's only real problem right now is just the execute phase. Arms just has the benefit of incredibly OP 2-3 target cleave damage while still being able to sustain great single target. I've been playing both and I'm competitive with both.

    This is honestly looking like just another QQ thread rather than anything constructive. I mean really you just posted a similar thread to this less than a month ago crying about the same thing. Also, the same thing you're saying now could have been said about Arms in NH yet there will still people competitively raiding as Arms during that time. Just because something is better for a certain raid doesn't mean it's the only viable choice.
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  3. #3
    WW + ww belt + wrecking ball.

    still perfect for "overwhelmed by adds" fights like Misstress, IMHO

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbiter View Post
    2) T20 is stronger than T19 currently as well. Sure the bonuses aren't fun but it's strong enough. The only real downside is that with a BT crit it still only a 50% chance to proc.
    While T20 is stronger in practice, I have to admit the spec feels a lot more clunky to work with to the point where it comes close to early EN but with more haste. The bonuses provide no significant changes to our rotation. They may as well just slam "Increases damage done by 10%" on our 4-piece.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakisuaki View Post
    While T20 is stronger in practice, I have to admit the spec feels a lot more clunky to work with to the point where it comes close to early EN but with more haste. The bonuses provide no significant changes to our rotation. They may as well just slam "Increases damage done by 10%" on our 4-piece.
    Same. I agree with most of what Arbiter has said. To be entirely fair, they chickened out of making the speccs "equally viable" in the most strict sense, when they nerfed the leggo pants into not gaining rage from additional targets. The additional Rampages could've done more in the way of giving Fury better cleave-potential.

    (And I don't think that Rampage cleave with the old Valarjar Rompers would be on-par with current Arms 2-3 Target cleave at all. It would just make Fury not-shit in cleave situations - Being good at something is different from being usable at something.)

    Same thing that bothers me, was the weird chance encounter with our 2-pc. BT Crits are bad enough, but a 50% on BT Crits for the procc is just.. clunky and random. With Convergence and Odyn's Champ, our Burst windows make up a huge portion of why we still sustain well enough on ST. It's great synergy. But it also makes Crit worthless compared to Haste/Mast/Vers. The 2pc creates a situation, where you could (due to low crit) have the 2pc and 4pc work off of eachother (100% Chance to procc on a crit instead of 50%) and the effect would bolster our ST burst reliably, while any proccs outside of that would be a bonus (or it could meaningfully change FS usage to force the buff and focus more on buffed+enraged RB's - especially when Rage is up and boosting our Crit).

    Right now, the 2pc is just too random. Having perfect procc uptime during burst starts making an annoying difference. But you won't change your burst- or normal rotation due to a 50% chance to trigger on a crit. It makes the 2-piece (contrary to the design of the 4pc, which is just passive) insanely passive and random, while it could have potential to be a gameplay-changing effect, that doesn't leave Fury mechanically in shambles without it.

    (Strictly speaking, almost all set bonusses might feel "mandatory", since the're usually significant enough DPS boosts. The difference in this tier is, Arms' bonusses are reliable and have synergy - Rage is a precious resource that can't be generated, bar white hits and a few talents (Ravager, OS) - It gives Bladestorm/Ravager some nice ST usage - at no rage cost, while Fury's bonus feels inbetween reliable (4pc) and clunky (2pc) - Regardless, it works. The difference is, Fury's bonus could work BETTER.)

    Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it feels imo.

    Needless to say, if a group refuses to take you because you've opted for Fury instead of Arms, you -could- call them asshats, on the premise that they're a PuG or non-WF Raid group. But then again, people in this game love to optimize and Arms is objectively better than Fury this content, even if the gap might be small outside of that WF demographic.
    Last edited by NoNamedPride; 2017-07-17 at 10:59 PM.

  6. #6
    The spec is overall worse than Arms, but unless you are literally pushing for world firsts that doesn't matter too much. Fury still does pretty good in most fights, and skilled players can make themselves useful. We have good burst AoE and burst damage in general, great extended execute phase, good mobility, you still have all the tools required to be useful in a raid.

    And even then Arms's meters are mostly carried by its OP 2-3 target cleave of which there is plenty in Tomb. In pure ST it's not that much better than Fury, and in Mythic logs where much less padding happens the specs are actually not that far from each other, albeit obviously Mythic also has a dramatically smaller sample size.
    Last edited by Jastall; 2017-07-17 at 10:48 PM.

  7. #7
    Fury could use a buff. I still prefer the play style over arms even if arms can do more damage. Arms has way to much waiting.

  8. #8
    Elemental Lord endersblade's Avatar
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    Oh look, something about gear I will never, ever have has turned out not to be as strong as people wanted. Oh noez, whatever will I do? Oh right, continue playing a spec I have loved since we got Titan's Grip.
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  9. #9
    are you talking about being declined from mythic raids/world firsts? or what? how hardcore are these leaders?
    pretty lame you aren't allowed to play one of the most fun melee specs in the game because people won't let you, probably some fat 15 year old who thinks he is hot shit and goes by FOTM. i fucking hate that mentality in WoW community.

    Bring the player

  10. #10
    The only time I feel punished as fury are when you get hit by %health abilities that for some reason also scale off the 20% enrage debuff. Like the grievous affix.

  11. #11
    I've seen posts in trade chat recruit rogues/dk/shaman/druid/arms... WTF

  12. #12
    I too got an "are you arms?" whisper once. and after i said yes was immedately invited. But it was the first day of ToS and internet was full of "omg op arms" comments.

    After that, I haven't seen anybody cared about the spec. I see many of each spec in raids and they both usualy have good numbers.

  13. #13
    Wait.. Arms is the go to Warrior DPS spec now?

    Fuck yeah, I might finish leveling my Warrior.

  14. #14
    I still see fury warriors doing great in raids

  15. #15
    Fury is Ok . there is nothing wrong with Arms being superior.

  16. #16
    I dont think the question is, if fury is ok. I think we can agree that it's ok


    It is beleived by a large crowd in pug-land that Arms is an OP spec, or at least the spec a warrior should play
    It's hard to change their view and mindset at this point.



    But also you could play both specs. Gear between arms and fury isnt that different to some degree
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mstg View Post
    People start to ask if I'm Arms or Fury before they invite, if I say Fury then it's a no. Bliz really screwed Fury up this tier:

    1. Loss of the strong T19 bonuses and DOS and nothing special in the TOS gear to compensate for them
    2. Poor T20 bonus design, the 2 piece bonus depends on crit, one of our lowest stats, while making us lose the furious slash BT crit bonus from T19.
    3. Lots of unavoidable damage in the boss fights but the extra 20% damage taken has not changed
    4. Weaker legendaries than most other classes
    Well, arms is just taken becuase if it's insane DPS. Warriors do not really bring anything usefull at all in this tier, same as monks, feral and DKs.
    If you really want to play a melee class then reroll rogue. It's always been like this but it's even worse in this tier where solo-soaking is king and if you have no immunity you're crap.

    Deal with it.

    Oh and if you don't have the ring and helm for arms, it's not worth changing spec at all so there is that.

  18. #18
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Well, arms is just taken becuase if it's insane DPS. Warriors do not really bring anything usefull at all in this tier, same as monks, feral and DKs.
    If you really want to play a melee class then reroll rogue. It's always been like this but it's even worse in this tier where solo-soaking is king and if you have no immunity you're crap.

    Deal with it.

    Oh and if you don't have the ring and helm for arms, it's not worth changing spec at all so there is that.
    What in the world are you talking about? There's plenty of use for a warrior. Literally no one melts adds like a warrior does especially while still maintaining boss damage and that goes for both specs. Commanding Shout is also a very useful raid CD. As is a warrior's mobility for certain mechanics. Sure there isn't a huge reason to have your whole melee team decked out in warriors but there's plenty of reason to have one in your line up.

    Also, while Arms is legendary dependent and the ring is a true QoL, you don't HAVE to have the 2 BiS legos for Arms to be worth using. It's still king on 2-3 target cleave without them and frankly I have both BiS legos for Fury yet Arms still sims higher and I have the ring and trinket instead of helm. They'd be roughly equal if I didn't have the ring if not with Arms slightly behind.
    Last edited by Arbiter; 2017-07-18 at 01:09 PM.
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  19. #19
    I raid fury and the other warrior raids arms. We are seriously neck in neck most fights. He beats me in a few and i beat him in a few. So whoever thinks arms arms arms herp derp is exactly that herp derp.

    H KJ for instance Fury is def competitive... i beat our arms war in that one since execute phase wasnt 2 seconds.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbiter View Post
    What in the world are you talking about? There's plenty of use for a warrior. Literally no one melts adds like a warrior does especially while still maintaining boss damage and that goes for both specs. Commanding Shout is also a very useful raid CD. As is a warrior's mobility for certain mechanics. Sure there isn't a huge reason to have your whole melee team decked out in warriors but there's plenty of reason to have one in your line up.

    Also, while Arms is legendary dependent and the ring is a true QoL, you don't HAVE to have the 2 BiS legos for Arms to be worth using. It's still king on 2-3 target cleave without them and frankly I have both BiS legos for Fury yet Arms still sims higher and I have the ring and trinket instead of helm. They'd be roughly equal if I didn't have the ring if not with Arms slightly behind.
    What adds are you talking about? There is no boss in the current tier where killing adds is a problem.
    Maybe KJ I guess but it does not seem like you can stack them so arms would be pretty pointless there. If it wasn't for the really high damage they put out. Thats the only reason anyone brings them. Lack of balance when it comes to damage makes sure arms has a place, other classes (rogues) just have better tools.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Roiids View Post
    I raid fury and the other warrior raids arms. We are seriously neck in neck most fights. He beats me in a few and i beat him in a few. So whoever thinks arms arms arms herp derp is exactly that herp derp.

    H KJ for instance Fury is def competitive... i beat our arms war in that one since execute phase wasnt 2 seconds.
    Well, any class works in HC. Can't really balance the game around tourist mode.

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