No point to play Fury anymore

[Jastall]

Well, any class works in HC. Can't really balance the game around tourist mode.

There's still a sizeable number of Fury parses in Mythic (public logs only, yeah, but we make do with the sample sizes we get). And there, where there's less cleave padding going on due to mechanics, Fury is pretty close to Arms. Yeah, sure, if you're Method tier you should go Arms. There's, what, 5 or 10 guilds at that level or even close to it in the entire world? For most anyone else, including the vast majority of Mythic's population, you can very well make Fury work. It's not an EN situation where Arms was way above all the other specs and Fury was almost dead last doing 60% of its DPS. And I still played Fury in EN because fuck Arms.

Plus, OP seems to mainly worry about pugging, which obviously doesn't happen in Mythic. And anyone who decides to stack Arms instead of Fury in a pug thinking there's a massive difference is a useless moron.

[Aggrophobic]

There's still a sizeable number of Fury parses in Mythic (public logs only, yeah, but we make do with the sample sizes we get). And there, where there's less cleave padding going on due to mechanics, Fury is pretty close to Arms. Yeah, sure, if you're Method tier you should go Arms. There's, what, 5 or 10 guilds at that level or even close to it in the entire world? For most anyone else, including the vast majority of Mythic's population, you can very well make Fury work. It's not an EN situation where Arms was way above all the other specs and Fury was almost dead last doing 60% of its DPS. And I still played Fury in EN because fuck Arms.

Plus, OP seems to mainly worry about pugging, which obviously doesn't happen in Mythic. And anyone who decides to stack Arms instead of Fury in a pug thinking there's a massive difference is a useless moron.

Yeah, sure for pugs you might be right. That does not change the fact that the balance in ToS is not at all as good as in NH.
It has more to do with the raid design than the actual class balance though. Well, that and legendaries - They should just remove the ones that increase your damage and make a few of the effects baseline instead.

[Arbiter]

What adds are you talking about? There is no boss in the current tier where killing adds is a problem.
Maybe KJ I guess but it does not seem like you can stack them so arms would be pretty pointless there. If it wasn't for the really high damage they put out. Thats the only reason anyone brings them. Lack of balance when it comes to damage makes sure arms has a place, other classes (rogues) just have better tools.

This is why you need to understand the classes as well as the fights before trying to pass things off as fact.

You can most certainly stack the adds on H KJ. You just need them dead before the 3rd cast (2nd cast is ideal), and frankly as Arms I do 2-3 times the amount of damage to them than any other player and they can melt just before the second cast which severely reduces the damage output. Fury can also do more than the usual class on them. Melting adds on that fight (including the tank add that spawns) is necessary and warriors help with that which reduces damage output. Adds are also much more frequent in that fight than on normal making it even more so. Warrior's are also competitive single target so there's that. Any cleave available is just icing on the cake. Commanding Shout is also a very useful CD for that fight.

As far as "no boss in the current tier where killing adds is a problem"...adds have to die. Even if they aren't an immediate threat they still need the die. Warriors are one of the best classes for the job and they hardly take a single target damage loss while doing it (it actually benefits Fury due to War Machine uptime). Reduces total damage output which helps the healers and allows other classes to get right back to the boss since they aren't so good as maintaining single target damage for that AoE.

And again, warriors bring competitive single target, mobility, and a raid CD so even if there weren't any adds there is still plenty reason to have one. You don't need a raid full of soakers to be viable and there's a reason why guild's recruit warriors to the raid team. Method even used 2 Arms warriors for the M KJ kill and that requires a shit ton more soaking than normal and heroic.

Well, any class works in HC. Can't really balance the game around tourist mode.

Both Fury and Arms are perfectly viable in Mythic too so what's your point?

[Aggrophobic]

This is why you need to understand the classes as well as the fights before trying to pass things off as fact.

You can most certainly stack the adds on H KJ. You just need them dead before the 3rd cast (2nd cast is ideal), and frankly as Arms I do 2-3 times the amount of damage to them than any other player and they can melt just before the second cast which severely reduces the damage output. Fury can also do more than the usual class on them. Melting adds on that fight (including the tank add that spawns) is necessary and warriors help with that which reduces damage output. Adds are also much more frequent in that fight than on normal making it even more so. Warrior's are also competitive single target so there's that. Any cleave available is just icing on the cake. Commanding Shout is also a very useful CD for that fight.

As far as "no boss in the current tier where killing adds is a problem"...adds have to die. Even if they aren't an immediate threat they still need the die. Warriors are one of the best classes for the job and they hardly take a single target damage loss while doing it (it actually benefits Fury due to War Machine uptime). Reduces total damage output which helps the healers and allows other classes to get right back to the boss since they aren't so good as maintaining single target damage for that AoE.

And again, warriors bring competitive single target, mobility, and a raid CD so even if there weren't any adds there is still plenty reason to have one. You don't need a raid full of soakers to be viable.



Both Fury and Arms are perfectly viable in Mythic too so what's your point?

Not talking about HC, mate. Why would HC matter at all?
The adds die befor you get two BS ticks off if you're even in a half decent group.

[Arbiter]

Yeah, sure for pugs you might be right. That does not change the fact that the balance in ToS is not at all as good as in NH.
It has more to do with the raid design than the actual class balance though. Well, that and legendaries - They should just remove the ones that increase your damage and make a few of the effects baseline instead.

ToS balance is just fine for both specs.

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Not talking about HC, mate. Why would HC matter at all?
The adds die befor you get two BS ticks off if you're even in a half decent group.

The game is balanced around heroic and the majority of the player base is in heroic. It matters plenty.

I added an additional part to the message before you quoted it but again, both specs have plenty use in Mythic so stop spreading bullshit. Method had atleast one warrior for just about every Mythic kill if not every single one and on many kills it was multiple warriors. But sure, Arms has a definite edge over Fury on 7 of those fights and neck and neck on 2 of those fights so they went Arms full time. Both specs are still perfectly viable and no smart group should be turning down anything for being Fury since it's still good.

[Deleted]

Oh boo hoo! Now you know how arms felt in Nighthold. It's the nature of the game, people always assume only 1 DPS spec is viable per class and if you don't play it you'll have a harder time finding groups. If you're any good you can just link them warcraftlogs if you actually need to prove something.

[permp]

People start to ask if I'm Arms or Fury before they invite, if I say Fury then it's a no. Bliz really screwed Fury up this tier:

1. Loss of the strong T19 bonuses and DOS and nothing special in the TOS gear to compensate for them
2. Poor T20 bonus design, the 2 piece bonus depends on crit, one of our lowest stats, while making us lose the furious slash BT crit bonus from T19.
3. Lots of unavoidable damage in the boss fights but the extra 20% damage taken has not changed
4. Weaker legendaries than most other classes

Welcome to World of Warcraft.

[Dartz1979]

i like playing fury over arms cause arms is too gear dependent and too many damn cds to worry about.

[Yamuri]

There were hardly any Arms warriors before the patch on my server. I don't feel so bad about it swapping because it seemed fury was dominating arms before anyways. Then again, that is just from my perspective on the server I'm on.

[Lumineus]

I think it's the old conundrum with multiple DPS specs. Fury seems bad, but it's tough to know how bad it really is because, since Arms is so powerful, there is no reason for good players to continue to play Fury. However, due to the way artifact weapons and the Legiondary system function, you can see the pattern develop early in the tier where it's obvious that Fury does at least need some kind of help with single-target, if nothing else.

[shyguybman]

I still play Fury for Harjatan & Mistress

[Arbiter]

I think it's the old conundrum with multiple DPS specs. Fury seems bad, but it's tough to know how bad it really is because, since Arms is so powerful, there is no reason for good players to continue to play Fury. However, due to the way artifact weapons and the Legiondary system function, you can see the pattern develop early in the tier where it's obvious that Fury does at least need some kind of help with single-target, if nothing else.

When I was 912 ilvl with 916 weps and only 2pc I managed 1.03mil single target on H Goroth which means a little bit of downtime even. Wasn't even a perfect attempt on my part. Haven't done him as Fury since, but I'm sure I could push another couple hundred thousand more dps being a few ilvls higher with 4pc now. Single target is still competitive with other classes. Just not Arms. A lot of people that are claiming that Fury is doing less than before the patch are simply just not playing correctly since we no longer rely on DoS damage.

[Roiids]

What adds are you talking about? There is no boss in the current tier where killing adds is a problem.
Maybe KJ I guess but it does not seem like you can stack them so arms would be pretty pointless there. If it wasn't for the really high damage they put out. Thats the only reason anyone brings them. Lack of balance when it comes to damage makes sure arms has a place, other classes (rogues) just have better tools.

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Well, any class works in HC. Can't really balance the game around tourist mode.

It wont be any different when we go into Mythic this week so i'm missing your point. Output is output.

[Seramore]

wow, there's a lot of misinformation in this thread

People start to ask if I'm Arms or Fury before they invite, if I say Fury then it's a no. Bliz really screwed Fury up this tier:

1. Loss of the strong T19 bonuses and DOS and nothing special in the TOS gear to compensate for them
2. Poor T20 bonus design, the 2 piece bonus depends on crit, one of our lowest stats, while making us lose the furious slash BT crit bonus from T19.
3. Lots of unavoidable damage in the boss fights but the extra 20% damage taken has not changed
4. Weaker legendaries than most other classes

T20 is actually a damage increase over T19. Just because it feels worse doesn't mean it is actually worse. Umbral Moonglaives basically makes up for the loss of DoS, especially on AoE fights.

The increased damage taken is hardly noticeable. Get better at dodging mechanics, or get better heals. Or both. If you can't fix either of those, consider throwing on Prydaz if you have one, it's better than what you probably think it is.

Our legendaries are strong and we arguably have the most balanced legendaries out of the majority of the classes and specs in this game. There are two best legendaries that you want to aim for like everybody else, but not having them won't be a gigantic DPS loss.

[mstg]

I got kicked on heroic fallen avatar a few times for low dps and sometimes dying, shit I dont remember the last time this happened for so many years I've played or if it ever happened. Just shit luck so far because I only got the normal T20 hands since TOS launched.

[barackohmama]

Fury is not bad. It is still strong especially in mythic with the buffed Juggernaut. It's no doubt on the upper half of the chart. Might be a little worse on Heroic though. On Harjatan and Mistress it's better than arms. If you don't get invited because you play fury the group is retarded anyway, so it's no loss for you.

[Seramore]

I can't see your gear so I can only assume that you're in somewhat of a rough spot regarding gear after the nerfs to T19 and DoS. Trust me when I say that the posts complaining about the state of Fury in T20 prior to the unlocking of ToS (and a lot of them now, really) are mostly incorrect and it will get better as you replace your stuff with ToS gear.

Yes, Arms is pulling out ahead on a lot of fights but there are still fights where Fury will shine more than Arms. Fury will also naturally shine more on fights with longer Execute phases due to Juggernaut. More importantly, both specs are also close to each other, the gap between the specs is absolutely nowhere close to the way it was back in EN. It's literally at the point where the correct answer to asking about which spec to play is "play whatever you enjoy more." If pugs are denying you because of you being Fury, then as person above me said, you're in the wrong group. If guilds aren't making their Warriors switch between specs for progression, then you shouldn't have to worry about actual solid groups looking at your spec and booting you.

[Hoeth]

Yeah I am not a fan of fun either.

[Softbottom]

Unless you are cutting edge play whatever you like. The difference in dps between the 2 isn't enough to make or break any normal or heroic encounter

[mstg]

wow, there's a lot of misinformation in this thread

T20 is actually a damage increase over T19. Just because it feels worse doesn't mean it is actually worse. Umbral Moonglaives basically makes up for the loss of DoS, especially on AoE fights.

The increased damage taken is hardly noticeable. Get better at dodging mechanics, or get better heals. Or both. If you can't fix either of those, consider throwing on Prydaz if you have one, it's better than what you probably think it is.

Our legendaries are strong and we arguably have the most balanced legendaries out of the majority of the classes and specs in this game. There are two best legendaries that you want to aim for like everybody else, but not having them won't be a gigantic DPS loss.

Numbers dont lie, the fact that not none of the top guilds use a fury warrior doesnt lie. The average DPS chart has fury near the bottom of the table.