Disc for the next exp.

[Kilee25]

I don't care to get into a semantics debate over what I did or did not mean. I understand what you are saying, and I meant no offense.

[Ynna]

I truly feel that there needs to be a few classes that are easier to play. You can call it mindless or boring or whatever you want, but the point is that Disc at certain points in its history was one of those classes, and now it's not. And I think that's the crux of the discussion. There are a group of players who enjoyed Disc because it allowed them to participate in areas of the game that they might not have otherwise been able to. They were essentially "run off" at the start of this expansion because the class changed, but they would come back if there were a similar option available. As I see it, Holy is more or less the only recourse in the priest spec options for players who didn't or couldn't escalate their game play. (Either that, or just change classes.) I suspect there are a lot of players who are silently (or otherwise) hoping that there will be a return to some of the old versions of the spec.

I agree with this sentiment, but it also needs to be carefully balanced in regards to harder content. Every spec in the game has a sort of "base level of effectiveness" you can achieve with a basic understanding of its mechanics. For example, I can do okay DPS as Shadow, because I know how the spec works. Similarly, every spec has a top end of effectiveness that the really dedicated and skill players can achieve. Using myself as an example would be hubris, but I can pull of stuff as a Holy Priest that newer players wouldn't be able to, because I have cultivated a deeper understanding of the spec and the role.

This is good game design, because it gives players room to grow and learn more about their preferred spec and role and that room is also what pushes players to improve.

The danger in a spec that's easier to play is that it either has too little room to grow, in which case people can quickly get bored with it because it's not challenging them anymore or they don't have new things to learn, or it has too much room to grow, which means dedicated and skilled players can use the relative "easiness" of the spec to (sometimes massively) outperform other players in a similar role.

In the past, Discipline has been an example of the latter, in part due to its unique mechanics (absorption and a spammable smart heal).

And without wanting to offend anyone, if you need an overpowered mechanic (absorption as it was in the past) and a spammable smart heal to clear content, maybe healing isn't for you. (I know I don't run the risk of offending anyone, really, because the sort of player who wants that probably doesn't visit forums trying to get a better understanding of their class and/or role.) I also think we're at a point where most (healing) specs, apart from maybe Discipline have the right tools to be accessible for players who just want to clear some content with their friends. If you are suitably geared and your group doesn't seriously mess up mechanics, you should be able to clear all dungeons up to the lower Mythic keys and most raids on Normal or Heroic. Both Holy specs and both Restoration specs (I don't know enough about Monks) are more than sufficient to clear that content with ease and without having to do serious triage or mana management. And while those specs all have their intricacies that can be mastered by a more dedicated crowd, mastering them is not required to run "casual" content.

[Popokolara]

(I know I don't run the risk of offending anyone, really, because the sort of player who wants that probably doesn't visit forums trying to get a better understanding of their class and/or role.)

Oh my friend, not to gain an understanding no, nor is this the right place for it. But they are here. They have always been here.

[schwank05]

I never got bored with it, then again I loved BC BM Hunter where you could top meters and win every fight with the good Ol 1 Button Macro. I don't play games to have to think critically I do that all day long, I play them to hang out with friends. I mean real friends that I know IRL not fake internet friends, One of my best friends lives 8 hours away and we use gaming to hang out and stay in touch. I loved Druid heals, because you could literally run around all over the map and Drop hots on everyone and rock the healing meters, I don't think I cast more than 2-5 heals in any encounter ever in BC or Wrath.

[Nurasu]

I never got bored with it, then again I loved BC BM Hunter where you could top meters and win every fight with the good Ol 1 Button Macro. I don't play games to have to think critically I do that all day long, I play them to hang out with friends. I mean real friends that I know IRL not fake internet friends, One of my best friends lives 8 hours away and we use gaming to hang out and stay in touch. I loved Druid heals, because you could literally run around all over the map and Drop hots on everyone and rock the healing meters, I don't think I cast more than 2-5 heals in any encounter ever in BC or Wrath.

You're hurting me, dude. Stop discussing class design if all you really want is an i win button. As to everyone else discussing the accessibility aspect, we've had one and two button specs in the past that are now a lot more complex - is that good or bad for the game? I think it's good when people have to put in similar effort for similar results, personally.

[Kylista6]

They need to make disc a little more autoplay.

Atonement lasts longer (say 30 seconds for all applications) but has a maximum number of targets (group size x .20 +2) 5man = 3, 20man = 6
This is also the number of targets PW:R can hit.
Remove cooldown/charges on PW:R
Reduce healing on PW:R
Atonement healing is generated by SWP, Penance and Shadowfiend (mana efficient / burst / big cooldown)
Buff Smite absorb by 50% and give it a small mana cost (Similar to Gheal, only absorbs melee hits but effectively doesnt overheal)

As for talents
Schism, PW:Solace, Purge, Mindbender would heal via Atonement
Shadow Covenant would heal as it does now (basically Circle of Healing), the heal absorb would have a longer duration (15 seconds) but be less potent (25% of the healing done.

This is a troll, right?

I get that Disc isn't for everyone, but holy shit get the fuck away from my class and spec. Yeah, Disc has its shortcomings, but all healers do. If you want to limit the amount of mythic atonements to 6, then you'd have to buff atonement transfer by like, 200%. And even then we'd turn into pure tank healers, and who the hell thinks that's fun?

I've never had as much fun healing in this game as I have with Disc, and being able to play it competitively through Mythic content has shown that it is completely viable as it is now.

[Memento1]

I haven't heard anyone say ALL specs in the game need to be challenging and difficult. We've been saying isn't it okay that one single spec is? There are known specs that are incredibly easy for casuals: resto druid and BM hunter come to mind. There's even a fairly easy spec within the priest class: Holy.

After 7 years playing this game, I prefer complex, challenging healers. I have never, ever said they need to make Holy as challenging as Disc, because I understand not everyone likes difficult, challenging classes, and I'm more than okay with them having a spec that isn't. My first character was a resto druid and I still have a soft spot for them because it was a nice, forgiving spec for me to learn to heal on. But I hear many, many people saying Disc needs to be as easy as Holy, that all specs need to be easy because they personally prefer easy.

[Deleted]

Here is a question I don't think anyone has talked about in regards to disc and the next expansion, what happens when we don't have access to lights wrath anymore?
As far as I am aware they won't be keeping artifact weapons going forward past this expansion so unless we keep the ability as an additional spell the spec will lose the core ability it was tuned around.

[Ynna]

There's a lot of speculation of Artifact abilities becoming part of the core kit after Legion. For some specs (like Disc) this is more likely than for others, I think.

[Deleted]

disc doesn't need LW to function, it's just a very nice bonus

[Grumpy Old Man]

There's a lot of speculation of Artifact abilities becoming part of the core kit after Legion. For some specs (like Disc) this is more likely than for others, I think.

I'm more interested in seeing some legendary given abilities becoming part of the core kit of some classes/specs, or at least obtainable in some other way. I mean, there's some legendary item abilities that are game-changing for some classes.

About Light's Wrath, if the spec remains about the same in next expansion - if they don't change at least part of its core functionality - then IMO it's a given the artifact ability will become a standard skill.

[Supliftz]

disc doesn't need LW to function, it's just a very nice bonus

this is false, light's wrath is pretty core to disc priest.

[Mazzeric]

I don't like applying Atonements in the same way that I didn't like going up and down my raid frames applying shields in Wrath/Cata. For me it does feel more like playing a minigame with myself, to a much greater extent than healers already do with their raid frames and boss timers. I guess this is the "work" that people are referencing. You do need to be more engaged with an encounter as a disc priest to put out the best performance.

Blanketing has been core to disc healing for quite some time though, so it's odd to me when people say they liked the shielding style but hate the current iteration. It's probably the same people that didn't really think about who they were pre-shielding, but since they looked great on meters ('cause absorbs sniped everything), they didn't care. I think most people who try disc these days get discouraged when they don't see instant results, or play it on content where damage intake is so low that it skews their perception of what the spec is supposed to do.

[Yunzi]

I don't like applying Atonements in the same way that I didn't like going up and down my raid frames applying shields in Wrath/Cata. For me it does feel more like playing a minigame with myself, to a much greater extent than healers already do with their raid frames and boss timers. I guess this is the "work" that people are referencing. You do need to be more engaged with an encounter as a disc priest to put out the best performance.

Blanketing has been core to disc healing for quite some time though, so it's odd to me when people say they liked the shielding style but hate the current iteration. It's probably the same people that didn't really think about who they were pre-shielding, but since they looked great on meters ('cause absorbs sniped everything), they didn't care. I think most people who try disc these days get discouraged when they don't see instant results, or play it on content where damage intake is so low that it skews their perception of what the spec is supposed to do.

Legion Disc is a lot more difficult than WoD Disc, even with the 7.2 changes to make the spec easier. There's a constant consideration of whether to Plea or Smite in Legion, whereas the dominance of PWS in WoD made that the consistent default GCD. Also, the Plea vs Smite consideration is primarily reactive, not proactive, like many people say the spec is. So it's better to say that Legion Disc has both proactive (PWR, Light's Wrath (usually), Rapture) and reactive aspects.

Pleaing in Legion is a weaker, more overhealy, less immediate version of PWS in WoD.

I agree with people who say that Legion Disc feels a lot weaker than WoD Disc. It definitely is, but for the sake of healer balance that's a good thing. The primacy of WoD shields, which had to be used up for any other healer to be able to get through, was deeply oppressive.

As far as who to target with Plea in Legion versus who to target with PWS in WoD, that's basically the same consideration, with the difference being how amazing WoD PWS was as an emergency heal versus how terrible Plea is at saving a life.

[Memento1]

As far as who to target with Plea in Legion versus who to target with PWS in WoD, that's basically the same consideration, with the difference being how amazing WoD PWS was as an emergency heal versus how terrible Plea is at saving a life.

Heal also is pretty terrible at saving a life. When someone is desperately low and needs an emergency heal, you shield, pain suppression, or shadowmend them, not plea. WoD versus Legion is not PWS versus plea, it's PWS versus a variety of other spells you need to choose between based on the situation. Which is pretty basic to healers.

As for the whole what's happening to Light's Wrath discussion, there are plenty of specs that have core functionality on their artifact weapon. Same as everyone else, I imagine Blizzard will pick the most essential artifact abilities and make them core spells / functionality.

[Deleted]

this is false, light's wrath is pretty core to disc priest.

Yeah, because it exists and is really good. If it didn't, however Disc would still be functional and could then be balanced around not having LW, i.e. what I suspect Blizzard will do with the next expansion.

[Deleted]

Light's Wrath is very good for that magnificently timed raid wide snipe but it's not a core ability, really. Most of artifact abilities aren't to be honest.

[Deleted]

I have no doubt Disc can still function without LW technically speaking but it's output would be lackluster also most of the synergetic aspects of the spec are focused around LW and impeccable timing without it you end up with lots of effort and little reward for lining up high numbers of atonement.

If we lose LW without gaining some other sort of burst ability then I feel the spec will need to be reworked completely as for me at least LW is a core ability in which the mindset, playstyle, abilities, and cooldowns are focused around.

[Supliftz]

Yeah, because it exists and is really good. If it didn't, however Disc would still be functional and could then be balanced around not having LW, i.e. what I suspect Blizzard will do with the next expansion.

the spec is also designed to have a reason to ramp to high atonements frequently. That's why light's wrath exists. Just because light's wrath isn't core now, due to the massive power creep on penance, doesn't mean it wasn't core previously.

[MendUS]

the spec is also designed to have a reason to ramp to high atonements frequently. That's why light's wrath exists. Just because light's wrath isn't core now, due to the massive power creep on penance, doesn't mean it wasn't core previously.

Yeah, basically LW was our one trick for most of EN.