16 year old German teen who joined ISIL captured by Iraqi forces in Mosul

[Pengekaer]

she, along with any other sympathizers, should suffer whatever punishment iraq has for that.

she's in their country, let them deal with it.

I agree. Another spoiled forreigner pouring into their lands to spread salafism. Whatever the Iraqis decide is right for her..

[Deleted]

Any civilization that does not deal with its traitors will build up internal treachery that will grow like a tumor, and civil war will be the inevitable outcome.

Meh, i prefer dealing with stray sheep after i've dealt with the wolves in office.

[Acidz]

She should not go back to Germany, although I guess that is exactly what will happen.

Any civilization that does not deal with its traitors will build up internal treachery that will grow like a tumor, and civil war will be the inevitable outcome.
This is a common problem in Europe, where many of the terrorists and their salafist supporters appear to be living on government funds - no need for them to work, they have subjects (real, native European taxpayers and upcoming lambs to their slaughter) to do that for them.

I hope the Iraqi army throw her off a cliff like the rest of the lot.

IMO, Europa, her magnificient legacy ever under attack these days, must give one very clear message to enemies of the civilized world: If you join ISIS or whatever these salafists call themselves, there is only one possible outcome for you. No matter what, it will mean your death.

Ok, Nostradamus.

So on the one hand societies should deal with their 'traitors', but on the other hand you say Germany should pull its hands off her.

[lonely zergling]

There are reports that she was found with a weapon in her hand, so there goes your innocent little teenager story if this is true.

[Deleted]

This is the internet. You're surprised that people ask for someone's head? You're one sensitive person if ever I've seen one. You should probably not be on the internet at all with that fragile state of mind, no offense.

You should also stop the hysterics. Society isn't going to "pray on their citizen". I guess it sounds thrilling, but reality is that people are boring fucks that slob through their lives and ignore pretty much everyone they meet on the street. Including the random 16 year old doing stupid shit.

Firstly i'm not so sensitive, I have been on the forum since 5 years and as my number of post can show it I don't intervene much, but there is one point where it is just to much, please don't disregard my opinion because I am concerned.

We cannot dismiss one thing to be real because it is just the internet and cannot ever become a thing. Especially since the internet is becoming the main media and we cannot deny the influence of media over people's opinion. History has proven times and times again that some very small hateful minority can grow in number, mutate and got worse with time just because we let that happen. And to be clear I don't claim this event will be remembered in any historical book. It is just one step toward a change like there is so many other.
However we have reach a stage where terrorism has becomed such a big deal that people don't see a problem to people calling for a kid head just for joining that group while we are ok with worse criminal having more humane treatment.

Except it is not OK. It is not okay to call for someone head, especially a kid and especially when no violence was commited.
Even on the internet an angry mob is an angry mob and we should not just "not care".

Also yes. Societies that considered themself to be civilized have always through history prey on their own citizen. It is not an exageration it is a fact. And if I don't think it is born to happen again and again, a society that forget its mistakes is bound to do them again. A society just don't turn evil in a year, its a slow processus born through its inhabitants.
Just a classic history lesson.

[primalmatter]

Inexperience, teenage pride and need for bragging rights, identity crisis, lack of self-worth, all these are elements that can be exploited pretty easy for the purpose of creating messianic personalities.

Not many differences with the "deus vult" man-childs to be honest.

Well there is the whole treason angle of it...

[Deleted]

We cannot dismiss one thing to be real because it is just the internet and cannot ever become a thing...

Right on, you'll be shocked with how many confuse 'reality' with 'right/wrong'. This 16yo is also doing the right thing for her circumstances but has no grasp of how a viable and functional reality comes to be.

Likewise, executing her for her foolishness might sound like the right thing to do, but after that's done i'll personally never be able to look my fellow citizens the same way as before.

Don't let narratives of questionable motive dictate your thought process, you might have good intentions or even no intentions, but there's always someone who doesn't and is waiting for the opportunity to use whatever you failed to fortify it against you.

[Deleted]

Age is actually no excuse. First of all, her parents should be held accountable, since they are legally responsible for her anyway. Second, she needs to learn that actions have consequences. A year or 2 in Juvie would probably be adequate.

Biggest problem is that just because of a couple of idiots like that, there is a massive cost to society as the "supervision" is not cheap.

To those defending her because of age: Would it be different if she killed a person? Or what if she blows herself up in a rock concert like that idiot in the UK?

Teenage rebellion is nice and good, but it has a limit. Staying out with friends till the morning, experimenting with a few drugs, all of this is fine, but when it comes down to balancing the rights and safety of the many against the rights of one, the individual will always lose.

[primalmatter]

Right on, you'll be shocked with how many confuse 'reality' with 'right/wrong'. This 16yo is also doing the right thing for her circumstances but has no grasp of how a viable and functional reality comes to be.

Likewise, executing her for her foolishness might sound like the right thing to do, but after that's done i'll personally never be able to look my fellow citizens the same way as before.

Don't let narratives of questionable motive dictate your thought process, you might have good intentions or even no intentions, but there's always someone who doesn't and is waiting for the opportunity to use whatever you failed to fortify it against you.

You punish the parents as well of course. Their failure goes without saying but you treat a enemy combatant as a enemy combatant.

[Najnaj]

[B]Should she be taken back to Germany?

No... now what?

You didn't really think this one through did you?

[Deleted]

Well there is the whole treason angle of it...

Then you need to make a case and prove that she was intending to commit treason rather than acting like a retarded 16yo.

[Deleted]

Age is actually no excuse. First of all, her parents should be held accountable, since they are legally responsible for her anyway. Second, she needs to learn that actions have consequences. A year or 2 in Juvie would probably be adequate.

Biggest problem is that just because of a couple of idiots like that, there is a massive cost to society as the "supervision" is not cheap.

To those defending her because of age: Would it be different if she killed a person? Or what if she blows herself up in a rock concert like that idiot in the UK?

Teenage rebellion is nice and good, but it has a limit. Staying out with friends till the morning, experimenting with a few drugs, all of this is fine, but when it comes down to balancing the rights and safety of the many against the rights of one, the individual will always lose.

You do take into account her age since your adequate sanction is to go in juvie.
If she had killed someone, the sanction would be different of course, but that does not mean her age is not a factor anymore.
If she blew herself up...well there is not much sanction to do here.
I never say she is 100% innocent. However saying she was constantly 100% in control with every evidence at hand is a fallacy.

And once again, it is not about teenage rebellion, it is about teenage manipulation.
Nobody wake up one day and say "Rah I hate my parents, going to try to destroy the western worl #ISIS".
And I highly doubt she said "Getting raped every day sure sound like fun" (because that what happens often to those girls, yet no one talk about it)
The recruitment technics of those groups are similar to those of cult. People are not promised to satify their bloodlust, they are promised purpose and other similar things. Those recruits are often those no one care about and watch, not people evil at earth. They prey on influental and lonely people because it is easier to manipulate them. There is a lot of reference you can find to see how insidious those methods are.

[Deleted]

No... now what?

You didn't really think this one through did you?

Just leave her there is what's left

[Pengekaer]

Meh, i prefer dealing with stray sheep after i've dealt with the wolves in office.

Loyalty/treason is a binary state. You're loyal to Europa and what we have inherited, or you're not.
Some have a higher degree of responsibility for coordinating the evildoings of ISIS than others, but supporting ISIS brings ones from loyalty (1) to disloyalty (0) towards the nation.

Only one good way to deal with it.

[Deleted]

Loyalty/treason is a binary state. You're loyal to Europa and what we have inherited, or you're not.
Some have a higher degree of responsibility for coordinating the evildoings of ISIS than others, but supporting ISIS brings ones from loyalty (1) to disloyalty (0) towards the nation.

Only one good way to deal with it.

Yeah, so not talking about that particular case but loyalty is definitely not a binary state.
Let's take an exemple, French resistant.

One could see them as traitor to France since they oppose the government.
Another could see them as loyal because they defend the country.
what should we do in that case ? Is treason/loyalty really binary ?

Of course in the current case it is simpler. However your starting point being that treason being a binary state is false. It is hard to follow the rest of your argument in that case. Also you say there is only one good way to deal with it (it is obvious what you mean by that), yet you say that some have a higher degree of responsibility but still can only think to one possible type of sentence. The only thing that is binary here is your reflexion.

Yet we allow criminal who actually committed violence and murder to have lighter sentence than the one who supported it, what kind of justice system would you advocate for ? When a government is allowing to sell weapon to those states knowing that a part of them will support terrorist group don't they help more those causes than a 16 years old girl will ever be able to do ?
It is definitively not a binary issue.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Oh yeah, see how many people are willing to recognize your "rights" after striving to become a part of a terrorist organization trying to kill them.

Wanker.

I mean, it's this kind of sentiment which shows that there is pockets of moral degeneracy in the West. It doesn't really matter what crime she committed, she's a German citizen and is entitled to the rights of a German citizen, which includes a trial and sentencing. You cannot just dismiss someone's rights as a citizen because they've done something which is obviously wrong or stupid, and she has not - from what I can tell - had her citizenship revoked.

[Stormdash]

Citizenship should be revoked, obviously.

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Look kittens, I know their is an impulse to note her age and lament that adolescence is a time of experimentation, but FFS. Teenage experimentation is vaping, it is skinny jeans, it is not confusion or ambivalence on the basic notions of human life and human decency; which is to say, if you are a teenager in the affluent west who finds herself on the fence on something like "well, maybe it IS a good idea to behead or crucify infidels, to boil people alive for lulz, to promote sexual enslavement of women and children", you are already fucking broken. That isn't a kids will be kids week of skipping school.

[Malacrass]

I mean, it's this kind of sentiment which shows that there is pockets of moral degeneracy in the West. It doesn't really matter what crime she committed, she's a German citizen and is entitled to the rights of a German citizen, which includes a trial and sentencing. You cannot just dismiss someone's rights as a citizen because they've done something which is obviously wrong or stupid, and she has not - from what I can tell - had her citizenship revoked.

Is it moral degeneracy if you don't agree with people having a free pass to commit crimes in other countries because of their fucking passport?

Let's assume there would be two 16 year old girls in that shithole, one a German citizen and one a US citizen. Do you really think it's okay that one would likely get 2 years of juvenile prison while the other will likely get convicted for treason or worse? Do you honestly say that they should face a different punishment based on their nationality?

If so then phew, I've got quite the out-of-jail free card in my pockets. Thanks mom and dad!

[Toogoodman]

That does not look like a quote from the German law.
It does not apply here.

Its actually the universal legal definition, but please, keep plugging your ears and saying "LALALALALALALA"

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If she was an adult I would agree.

She was a teenager at the time.

While that certainly doesn't excuse her action, you can't treat it the same as if a full grown adult had done it.

That's why I went a little light on her and was trying to give her a chance to show that she changed and what she did was a stupid "childhood" mistake.

My "sentencing" was also dependent on how she acted during interviews (I am sure they will conduct plenty). Is she sorry or does she still think it was the right thing to do?

Also, according to all reports of how women are treated over there- she may have already suffered a lot for her decision.

If she was an adult, I would throw the book at her- because they should know better.

At 16, i know for a lot of countries, you can be charged as an adult, i am not 100% sure about Germany. Most Countries believe that depending on bad your crime is, at 16 you're fully liable.

There is also a big difference between, lets say, being 16 and accidentally killing someone with your car, and willfully leaving your Country of birth, and joining the biggest, and most evil, terrorist organization on the planet. What really sucks for her, is she is one of the first to be captured who did this, and she will probably be extradited back to Germany. Knowing how much Germany hates decent, and stuff like this, i wouldn't be surprised if they make an example of her to deter people from doing the same thing. If they let her off the hook, it makes it look like you can get away with it, and others will likely continue to do it. Its not like she went to summer camp for a couple of months, she joined ISIL, known to be the most brutal, ruthless, genocidal, terrorist organization in the world. She KNEW what these people were, and decided to join them.

[Deleted]

Loyalty/treason is a binary state. You're loyal to Europa and what we have inherited, or you're not.
Some have a higher degree of responsibility for coordinating the evildoings of ISIS than others, but supporting ISIS brings ones from loyalty (1) to disloyalty (0) towards the nation.

Only one good way to deal with it.

Dispel her and laugh at their weak magic?