Do you like ToS?

[Illusions]

I'm a relatively poorly skilled player (or rather, nothing that'd be impressive) and since I'm on a RP realm and a RP guild, I don't get to experience Mythic and my raiding experience pertains to Heroic at most. I'm 9/9 normal and 6/9 heroic (would be 7 if that one pug group hadn't fallen apart), so I suppose my opinions differ a lot from most.

But I would say I personally enjoy Tomb. I feel like each raid usually has their own thematic, both artistically and mechanically - Tomb has overlapping mechanics (from what I've gathered) and soaking mechanics. It stands out enough from other raids and I always feel like they're trying something new they could potentially use in the future, eg in Antorus might we see overlapping mechanics and soak mechanics as well, but just less to the extreme, and with their own style/spin on it?

I feel like most of the trash is fine, only the trash before Sisters and Desolate Host are a pain (especially when people run into the traps). But then again - good placement by whoever placed those traps, clearly knew his/her stuff!

Individually, I still felt like each boss was different and fun.
Goroth being the first boss obviously is going to be easy, but towards the end with the flames covering most of the room, it can get a bit hectic, with some silly timings making hilarious wipes (the pillar getting destroyed by lava just before Infernal Burning, resulting in everyone dying :') ).
DI is perhaps one of the bossfights I'm not too fond of. Feels kinda boring to me, the prison place could have used some more mechanics.
Harjatan is also quite a tank&spank.
Mistress is fun! A pug-killer for some, but I haven't had too much trouble with it. And it's forgiving enough on heroic so it's not that stressful.
Sisters is one of my favourite fights! But I'm biased, since I'm a diehard night elf fan, so that fight is like, tailored for me. I love the moon floor and the night elf themed abilities. Glaivestorm is super fun to avoid as well!
Maiden is also one of my favourite fights, I love it. I was afraid on Heroic, the additional pools would be super hard to dodge, but not at all.
Fallen Avatar is perhaps a bit more boring for me, though I haven't reached him on Heroic yet. But I don't think the pool soaking is going to be all the more interesting?
Kil'jaeden is also quite fun. I heard on Mythic, there's a lot of overlapping, so you get singularity while having to soak Armageddon and I just felt like it was intended - having to know how far to go so you'd fall in the pools. On Normal though, there's periods where you're just doing your rotation and nothing much happens. And for me, finding the pillars is hard (since the colours meld together with the floor for me). So overall, not the best boss. I enjoyed Gul'dan more.

Visually it's varied enough and again - night elf themed, so I love it. Nighthold was very pretty, but it was mostly the same colour once you got out from the sewers. Here's to hoping Antorus brings more variety as well!

So overall, I quite enjoyed Tomb. Few bosses that were more on the 'meh' scale, quite a few bosses I actually enjoyed, visually it was nice etc. But that's all coming from a casual raider and pugs.

[Deleted]

I dislike killing myself after host. And first trash pull before KJ. And sisters fight (alt least on HC). But apart from that, it's pretty good.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It's an entertaining raid. It's one flaw is certain bosses and runs are just way to long. I mean not AQ40 or anything but still I thought we had moved past that.

An over use of the soak mechanic as well. Although it's more interesting than just get in or out of the circle.

[Nasuuna]

Only boss I flat out dislike is KJ

Then again I'm a shadow priest.

Gotta move? there goes my void form.

[Marrilaife]

I gotta ask, why do people rate ToV so poorly? I thought it was the only really great raid this expansion so far... Really awesome fun bosses (Well at least Odyn and Helya).

Too short.

Too much movement required on Odyn / Helya.

Progressing mythic Odyn with too many melee / immobile classes was a complete pita, and it was first boss, because the raid was so short there was no usual "simpler, early introductory bosses".

Helya pre-nerf on heroic was harder than some mythic bosses in EN, which should not be the case (heroic is aimed at different audience than mythic).

Helya mythic was another example of "bring specific classes or have 3 times harder progress", you needed 2 priests for mass dispel (preferably shadow since their mana is not a resource you need to conserve), some immunity classes to solo tentacles and preferably a couple of dks to grip the mist-whateverthename-caster-ladies. Oh, and also specific aoe classes that had easier time to get down the blobs. I personally hate bosses that encourage you to class stack to such extent. I don't mind if world first guild class stacks to "cheese" something but when that becomes the only viable tactic or the only "doable by non godlike players" tactic or "10 times easier than any alternative", then sorry, it means Blizzard only caters to top guilds who split run and class stack and not the average guild where players play 1 class and stick to it.

For that same reason if by 7.3 mythic Avatar and KJ aren't changed in a way that stops encouraging you to bring 5 rogues, I'll be very sad. No standard non split running guild keeps 5 rogues on the roster, they will always have a spread of different melee classes, maybe 2-3 tops of the same one. However I do expect these bosses to be nerfed in one way or another, so we'll see.

[seraphbreak]

I enjoy going into ToS a lot more than NH. Not sure why, maybe I got sick of having to enter a raid through its sewers. Mechanically challenging bosses are fun, but some of the fight lengths in ToS are way too long. Downing H KJ with a pug for the first time where everyone got AOTC was definitely such a great feeling. There were no carries, no one overgeared it yet, and everyone had to go soak equally, it was team effort or nothing. It has been a long time since I had such a sense of accomplishment. Probably more so than Mythic kills with the guild because you have a set roster and can't just replace the weakest link.

Nowadays with the lasers no longer 1 shotting you at higher levels of gear, more and more people will get the kill, but I think it won't be the same level of satisfaction of working together as a team.

[Deleted]

I find it to be an alright raid, but I feel like it has less bosses I like healing than Nighthold. And it's a pain that pugs tend to go for inquisition 2nd and end up hitting a wall so soon. The difficulty doesn't seem that bad once you learn the mechanics. If anything bothers me, it's less the raid itself and more the lack of healing buttons I feel like I'm using. With the new Mistress trinket + Holy set bonuses, I feel like I could just mash PoH and holy words on a controller to too great of an effect.

[Deleted]

Call me crazy but I enjoyed the Emerald Nightmare much better.

I'm honestly tired of elves and green fel poop everywhere.

I did not actually like nighthold too much because I already spent ages in suramar and going in the raid felt underwhelming. Some bosses like Star Augar amazed me with its beauty.

Going in TOV to fight helya just felt like a harder version of what I already did in a 5 man. It just took longer for the same affect.

TOS was just...more of the same I guess. I actually enjoyed the two naga bosses. They felt really different and was a nice refresher.

Emerald Nightmare I felt actually excited. Was interesting to see these different areas affected by the nightmare. Plus in general it had to do with Old Gods, which is always a bonus. And the final fight with Xavius going into that dark room so so surreal. And then at the end of the raid we witness how beautiful the emerald dream actually looks.

[gushDH]

It's nice, except Kil'Jaeden.

The mechanics they introduced to it are just boring. It's like "go there, now go there and stay, now go and find illidan, then go there before the cast ends".

Moving too much around, I would just remove one of the mechanics because the difficulty of the encounter doesn't come from hard mechanics. It comes from the way too many mechanics that are being overlapped after a bit.

[Demonidze]

ToS is fine. worse then NH imho, but better then ToV and EN.

[Dekkers]

Pretty "Meh".
Worse than NH.
The raids these days feel lifeless. They used to have more charm and depth to them.

[Socialhealer]

not really it's another bring the spec not the player raid.

boring uninteresting design we've all seen before.

- - - Updated - - -

Too short.

Too much movement required on Odyn / Helya.

Progressing mythic Odyn with too many melee / immobile classes was a complete pita, and it was first boss, because the raid was so short there was no usual "simpler, early introductory bosses".

Helya pre-nerf on heroic was harder than some mythic bosses in EN, which should not be the case (heroic is aimed at different audience than mythic).

Helya mythic was another example of "bring specific classes or have 3 times harder progress", you needed 2 priests for mass dispel (preferably shadow since their mana is not a resource you need to conserve), some immunity classes to solo tentacles and preferably a couple of dks to grip the mist-whateverthename-caster-ladies. Oh, and also specific aoe classes that had easier time to get down the blobs. I personally hate bosses that encourage you to class stack to such extent. I don't mind if world first guild class stacks to "cheese" something but when that becomes the only viable tactic or the only "doable by non godlike players" tactic or "10 times easier than any alternative", then sorry, it means Blizzard only caters to top guilds who split run and class stack and not the average guild where players play 1 class and stick to it.

For that same reason if by 7.3 mythic Avatar and KJ aren't changed in a way that stops encouraging you to bring 5 rogues, I'll be very sad. No standard non split running guild keeps 5 rogues on the roster, they will always have a spread of different melee classes, maybe 2-3 tops of the same one. However I do expect these bosses to be nerfed in one way or another, so we'll see.

this guy nailed it, bosses are designed around specific class abilities and you need those classes or the encounter is 10 times harder, thats shit design.

the idea for 20 man was you can bring 1-2 of each spec/class and those abilities be required, not oh you bring 5 priests to helya, or you bring 6 druids and 5 rogues to KJ, wtf blizz?

[Deleted]

Too many soaking based mechanics spoils an otherwise aesthetically amazing and lore wise interesting raid.

[TOM_RUS]

Crap raid is crap. Clueless blizzard is clueless.

[slime]

No. Terrible raid tier.. that 2 now in this xpac of shit.

[BiggestNoob]

Most of these bosses have a good potential but suffer from very lazy design, or intentionally bad design. It's sad to see that if just one person was better at his job or gave a shit that so many people could potentially have a much more enjoyable time, and that Blizzard doesn't care enough to make that happen.

[Dnusha]

Tos is alright.

intentionally bad design

they probably intentionally do this to upset you lul

[apelsinjuice]

way too much soak mechanics and not many unique bosses other than avatar maybe and maiden

[Argorwal]

I've greatly enjoyed it so far.

Not quite as good as NH for me, but miles ahead of EN.