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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by AerisTheAngel View Post
    M8, you got no clue. Top rets in top guilds are playing other classes cause there not taken on the mythic raids as ret. We are not fine. The fact you are saying this is that your either not a ret or that you got no clue!
    Or he isn't a mythic raider ? Ret is more than fine for HC raiding, its godly for m+ , and PvP , well that's just a mess for everyone. Not everyone needs to be the top dog DPS , and ret (at least our raid ret and my ret alt) is doing far more than the bare minimum for sure . Bubble, BoP, LoH, BoG , blessings are all great utility that can save a group , which a lot of the top dog DPS can't bring, off-heals come in handy too.

    Besides , most people don't even play at that high parses , so if u play in 80-90 percentile , u'll out DPS most people anyways.

    Thx to Winter Blossom for the awesome sig

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by aggrokalle View Post
    The reason rets of the top 10 guilds get benched is that warriors and more so rogues are broken as fuck, espacially on avatar and kj. Thats what pretty much happens in every fuckin tier - classes That are broken get stacked.

    A good ret has his spot in every mythic roster apart from retarded top20 guilds
    I don't care if ret does or doesn't have a spot in mythic guilds. What's relevant to me is that we're not even middle of the pack overall, so I can't even begin to carry my group in any way. Ret only works on Kil'jaeden so well because of the intermissions, the add timings during Crusade and Hand of Protection, and even in that one ideal scenario (where we should probably be top) we're still getting beat. Not asking to be top DPS or even close to it overall, I just want to be competitive with the middle.

    As for the current buffs, they probably were trying to do something with Crusade but couldn't really work it out properly, so they settled on these changes. There's still the lingering issue of dead talents and no DOTs/mobility to supplement mechanic movement during fights, but at least in numbers we'll be better off than we were. I don't think Blade of Justice will outprioritize Templar's Verdict unless you're using Execution Sentence maybe.. Execution Sentence would be fine if it were a better reward in damage for the more complicated gameplay. Maybe if all finishers scaled with one minor trait (replacing the other with a different one) and all had echos..

    EDIT: Actually I doubt the 5% is for us now.
    Last edited by Reith; 2017-07-22 at 10:44 AM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nero Stormchester View Post
    Or he isn't a mythic raider ? Ret is more than fine for HC raiding, its godly for m+ , and PvP , well that's just a mess for everyone. Not everyone needs to be the top dog DPS , and ret (at least our raid ret and my ret alt) is doing far more than the bare minimum for sure . Bubble, BoP, LoH, BoG , blessings are all great utility that can save a group , which a lot of the top dog DPS can't bring, off-heals come in handy too.

    Besides , most people don't even play at that high parses , so if u play in 80-90 percentile , u'll out DPS most people anyways.
    This one knows what's what!
    Off-heals are incredibly handy indeed, there is no better feeling in the world to plant yourself surefooted in the middle of a mayhem to hardcast those mighty 500k+ FoLs and go oom in 4 casts.

    BoG(whatever the feth it is, Blessing of Gravity?) comes in handy just as much, no to mention stupidly powerful BoF and .

    We don't need to be top dog.
    In fact , we don't need to be mediocre, as it might offed actually mediocre classes.
    But we bring a lot to the table!
    So if you = casul, then Retribution is more than just fine, and if you are in a stupid top 20 guild then you still got tons of utilities to guarantee you a raidslot!
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    This one knows what's what!
    Off-heals are incredibly handy indeed, there is no better feeling in the world to plant yourself surefooted in the middle of a mayhem to hardcast those mighty 500k+ FoLs and go oom in 4 casts.

    BoG(whatever the feth it is, Blessing of Gravity?) comes in handy just as much, no to mention stupidly powerful BoF and .

    We don't need to be top dog.
    In fact , we don't need to be mediocre, as it might offed actually mediocre classes.
    But we bring a lot to the table!
    So if you = casul, then Retribution is more than just fine, and if you are in a stupid top 20 guild then you still got tons of utilities to guarantee you a raidslot!
    When the healer wipes on M+15 , and those mighty FoLs are the thing that is keeping the tank alive paired with a LoH as a last resort, you'll sing a different song.
    When the healer is ABOUT to die , and you save their ass with BoP , sure that useless too, right ?
    Or the BoF that allows you to deal with mechanics that root you in place (Bot, Cenarius , etc) - yeah that doesn't save lives either ..

    Just cause you can't use them effectively, doesn't make them useless.

    And if you wanna be in a top 20 guild , better start levelling those alts, cause they expect you to play most , so they can just pick the best fotm specs and stack them . Most classes weren't included in top kills in ToS , cause people just stack druids , rogues, mages and hunters. And for HC , ret is doing more than enough DPS.

    Thx to Winter Blossom for the awesome sig

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Nero Stormchester View Post
    Or he isn't a mythic raider ? Ret is more than fine for HC raiding, its godly for m+ , and PvP , well that's just a mess for everyone. Not everyone needs to be the top dog DPS , and ret (at least our raid ret and my ret alt) is doing far more than the bare minimum for sure . Bubble, BoP, LoH, BoG , blessings are all great utility that can save a group , which a lot of the top dog DPS can't bring, off-heals come in handy too.

    Besides , most people don't even play at that high parses , so if u play in 80-90 percentile , u'll out DPS most people anyways.
    "more than fine"<-- lol if you call being at the top of the lower end fine that's cool, maybe you only look at Kil'jaeden parses or something? For Mythic+ you have to pick between trash damage and single target, so any with tyrannical you're kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place unless you happen to have Soul of the Highlord and/or Scarlet, which only supplements it somewhat. Divine Intervention and even Divine Shield itself don't even WORK for some mechanics so it's inconsistent BS, BoP is only good for Kil'jaeden, maybe Fallen Avatar and aggro which should never be an issue, LoH is meh, what is BoG? o_O Our "utility" is a shadow of its former glory.

    As for damage, I don't care if I outDPS people or not, I care if Ret is middle of the pack on average or not, and it's not. I want to do my fair share of damage regardless of whatever anyone else in my group is doing.

    EDIT: Wait a minute.. they buffed Crusader Strike and that doesn't include Zeal, right? So that doesn't help our single target damage at all, it only slightly buffs our damage when using Divine Hammer LOL. Holy crap, Blizzard, even when you're buffing us, you still can't get it right.
    Last edited by Reith; 2017-07-22 at 11:24 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nero Stormchester View Post
    Or he isn't a mythic raider ? Ret is more than fine for HC raiding, its godly for m+ , and PvP , well that's just a mess for everyone. Not everyone needs to be the top dog DPS , and ret (at least our raid ret and my ret alt) is doing far more than the bare minimum for sure . Bubble, BoP, LoH, BoG , blessings are all great utility that can save a group , which a lot of the top dog DPS can't bring, off-heals come in handy too.

    Besides , most people don't even play at that high parses , so if u play in 80-90 percentile , u'll out DPS most people anyways.
    Ppl like me complaining are not casual players. Casual rets dont even know something is wrong. Check warcraft logs for mythic kills:

    Maiden atm only 6 rets that killed it.
    Avatar 0
    KJ 0

    On those bosses on mythic we where present for the kills. WE are close to last and on aoe cant even get above the middle. So we are ok on aoe, terrible at ST, i can understand some classes do more ST or AOE but not on both are higher!! If you think we are not right to complain then go find another thread?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post

    EDIT: Wait a minute.. they buffed Crusader Strike and that doesn't include Zeal, right? So that doesn't help our single target damage at all, it only slightly buffs our damage when using Divine Hammer LOL. Holy crap, Blizzard, even when you're buffing us, you still can't get it right.
    pretty sure Zeals damage is absed on crusader strieks so a uff to CS should be a buff to zeal

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Utigarde View Post
    It's a shame i can't find the post on the WoW EU forums cause i would totally flame Blizzard devs on that change.

    What the actual F is that change?! Are they purposidly trying to troll or anger us? BoJ Is 14% of my damage and CS is like 5%? What is the bloody point of that change? 1 or 2% buff?! Meanwhile Frost DK gets 5% buff, an extravagance never granted to us. Seriously...
    Last edited by Nemmar; 2017-07-22 at 02:37 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    It's a shame i can't find the post on the WoW EU forums cause i would totally flame Blizzard devs on that change.

    What the actual F is that change?! Are they purposidly trying to troll or anger us? BoJ Is 14% of my damage and CS is like 5%? What is the bloody point of that change? 1 or 2% buff?! Meanwhile Frost DK gets 5% buff, an extravagance never granted to us. Seriously...
    BoJ is more like 19-20% of my damage. I'm guessing the BoJ relics get a bit of a boost from this as well, probably another 1 ilvl worth?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    BoJ is more like 19-20% of my damage. I'm guessing the BoJ relics get a bit of a boost from this as well, probably another 1 ilvl worth?
    You will still yearn for wota relics nevertheless.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    BoJ is more like 19-20% of my damage. I'm guessing the BoJ relics get a bit of a boost from this as well, probably another 1 ilvl worth?
    Well, in sake of accuracy i must correct that mine seems to actually be from 16 to 18%. Still... it is infuriating.

    They are really afraid to buff our AoE... sure our AoE in fine, but it's not like it would make a difference if it applied to DH. Fair enough though. BoJ should be better in ST. But these effin tiny buffs here and there when they could have come and just buffed us by 10% and solved the problem... /sigh

    Also... kill the effin Ret passive already! For god's sake!
    Last edited by Nemmar; 2017-07-22 at 03:22 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by aggrokalle View Post
    The reason rets of the top 10 guilds get benched is that warriors and more so rogues are broken as fuck, espacially on avatar and kj. Thats what pretty much happens in every fuckin tier - classes That are broken get stacked.

    A good ret has his spot in every mythic roster apart from retarded top20 guilds
    Throwing the blame to the community is not the best thing man. U understand that an average/semi-decent player of any other class has a spot in mythic raiding whereas only a really good ret has a spot when trying to achieve cutting edge progress.

    And btw in top20-50 guilds there are not rets getting benched since their roster is always able to play 5+ classes and the respective speccs equally well. They dont bring the player they bring the class. Paladins dont get benched there they are just not a desirable specc for their run.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Well, in sake of accuracy i must correct that mine seems to actually be from 16 to 18%. Still... it is infuriating.

    They are really afraid to buff our AoE... sure our AoE in fine, but it's not like it would make a difference if it applied to DH. Fair enough though. BoJ should be better in ST. But these effin tiny buffs here and there when they could have come and just buffed us by 10% and solved the problem... /sigh

    Also... kill the effin Ret passive already! For god's sake!
    Funny how many dedicated rets dont like the passive. And still blizzard still talks about class fantasy. Maybe someone has to quit smoking funny staff.
    Last edited by Stroggylos; 2017-07-22 at 04:06 PM.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Well, in sake of accuracy i must correct that mine seems to actually be from 16 to 18%. Still... it is infuriating.

    They are really afraid to buff our AoE... sure our AoE in fine, but it's not like it would make a difference if it applied to DH. Fair enough though. BoJ should be better in ST. But these effin tiny buffs here and there when they could have come and just buffed us by 10% and solved the problem... /sigh

    Also... kill the effin Ret passive already! For god's sake!
    Yeah can't believe something like Ret passive made it past beta. Then again so did Greater Blessing of Might and that took them months to remove.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by varren View Post
    Yeah can't believe something like Ret passive made it past beta. Then again so did Greater Blessing of Might and that took them months to remove.
    They have no idea wtf they're doing with Ret. They need someone from the art team to help them in their class design meetings. The art team actually loves ret.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    They have no idea wtf they're doing with Ret. They need someone from the art team to help them in their class design meetings. The art team actually loves ret.
    Art team does what?
    I will retort with the class mount argument.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    Art team does what?
    I will retort with the class mount argument.
    I'm almost certain the class design team had everything to do with the class mount. The art team actually had Turalyon charge in a cutscene. No Warrior ever charges in a cutscene.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    I'm almost certain the class design team had everything to do with the class mount. The art team actually had Turalyon charge in a cutscene. No Warrior ever charges in a cutscene.
    Implying cutscenes or movies hold any water as far as argument goes.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    I'm almost certain the class design team had everything to do with the class mount. The art team actually had Turalyon charge in a cutscene. No Warrior ever charges in a cutscene.
    To be fair, the class mount isn't as horrible as I thought at first. The glowy footprints are pretty nifty. Along with the flame highlights on the tail.

    Granted, it was the most unimaginative thing. "Oh, what can we give paladins? ....another horse?".

    The best thing to come out of it was that it counts as 4 mounts total if you max out all artifacts.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    To be fair, the class mount isn't as horrible as I thought at first. The glowy footprints are pretty nifty. Along with the flame highlights on the tail.

    Granted, it was the most unimaginative thing. "Oh, what can we give paladins? ....another horse?".

    The best thing to come out of it was that it counts as 4 mounts total if you max out all artifacts.
    Ofcourse it isn't horrible if you're okay with broken front legs.
    Or with fething awful scenario to get it.
    Or with bzzd reasoning on how this mount is THE actual Rivendare 's mount, not the one we can get from stratholme.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    Ofcourse it isn't horrible if you're okay with broken front legs.
    Or with fething awful scenario to get it.
    Or with bzzd reasoning on how this mount is THE actual Rivendare 's mount, not the one we can get from stratholme.
    I meant art wise, since I don't think the art department had a say in the quest line.

    Front legs I haven't noticed an issue with, but I guess I'm always looking at it from it's anus side, so that would be why.

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